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King Robert Silvermyst

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:34 am


Alot of people in today's society, and even here as I have read some posts, use names they believe to be the Egyptian names of the Gods and Goddesses, but they are actually Greek names. Archeologists use primarilly the Greek names due to some Egyptian names being hard to pronounce, and since because they have been used for so long, they would have to reread everything they originally translated. Here, I'll list the Greek names and translate it into Egyptian via several sources (kemet.org, The Ancient Egyptian Prayerbook among them.)

Greek........................Egyptian
-------------------------------------
Amen........................Amun
Anubis.......................Yinepu
Apis...........................Wesir-hapi
Apophis......................Apep
Bubastis........................Bast
Chons........................Khonsu
Edjo...........................Wadjet
Ennead.......................Pesedjet
Hathor.......................Hethert
Horus........................ Heru
Harendotes.................Heru-nedj-it-ef "Heru, Savior of His Father"
Harmachis..................Heru-em-Akhet "Heru-in-the-Horizon"
Haroeris.....................Heru-wer "Heru the Elder"
Harpocrates................Heru-pa-khered "Heru the Child"
Harseisis....................Heru-sa-Aset "Heru, Son of Aset"
Horakthy....................Ra-Heru-akhety "Ra-Heru of Two Horizons"
Imouthis.....................Imhotep
Isis............................Aset
Mihos.........................Maahes
Mayet.........................Ma`at
Monthis.......................Montu
Nephthys.....................Nebt-het
Neith...........................Nit
Osiris..........................Wesir
Re..............................Ra
Sachmis......................Sekhmet
Satis...........................Satet
Selkis.........................Serqet
Seth...........................Set
Suchos........................Sebek
Sokaris........................Sokar
Sirius...........................Sopdet
Thoueris.......................Tawaret
Thoth...........................Djehuty


Hope this helps ^.^
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:11 am


I, myself, use the Greek version as yes it is easier pronounce but as others only hear the Greek version I do not with to confuse them, lol.

Thanks for providing us this information whee

Rennie`
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WebenBanu

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:17 pm


Rennie`
I, myself, use the Greek version as yes it is easier pronounce but as others only hear the Greek version I do not with to confuse them, lol.


I think, actually, it's more that we're more used to mispronouncing the Greek names than attempting Egyptian ones, heh. Because I can tell you that the vast majority of the people who use the Greek names for the Egyptian gods are not pronouncing them correctly, either... and most of them don't even consider the possibility that ancient Greek was pronounced any differently from whatever their own native language happens to be. So I disagree on this one point. Largely, our beloved scholars' refusal to adopt Egyptian names for those gods who were discovered before we learned to read hieroglyphs is a form of academic apathy- perhaps encouraged by the doubt that the rest of us could follow if they changed names on us. They do, at least, tend toward Egyptian names for those deities who were discovered after Champolion cracked the code. heart

But there is a growing awareness, it seems, of people using certain selections of the Egyptian gods' Egyptian names. *shrugs* Or so it seems to me- it may just be that I spend a lot of time in the company of people who have a personal interest in these gods, and therefore care what they're called. wink But as there are a growing number of those as well, they are filtering out into wider circles of Egyptology-related communities, and I am seeing Egyptian names used with increasing frequency. At any rate, those who study the culture will undoubtedly encounter Egyptian names and titles for the gods at some point, and so a list of correspondences for the guild is a very good idea- probably worthy of being stickified. cool Thank you Silvermyst!

I wonder about Amen- are we certain Amen is actually the Greek name? Because the hieroglyphs for the name are simply transliterated imn- the vowel which we suspect lies between the /m/ and /n/ is unwritten, and has been reconstructed variously as a /u/ (Amun) or an /o/ (Amon) by different schools of thought. (The capitalization of letters in transliterations is significant, btw, changing the value of the sound, which is why I leave that first "i" lowercase- I'll try to remember to always use italics when I render in strict transliteration, so folks will know why I'm using odd capitalizations. whee ) It is, however, a widely accepted academic custom to insert a generic "e" as a placeholder for an unknown vowel- rendering the word pronouncable, and therefore more workable. I suspect that "Amen" is actually an older, pre-reconstruction, transliteration of the Egyptian name. It would be ironic if the Greeks used an /e/ there as well... but I think they favored a rendition along the lines of "Ammon," or possibly "Hammon," instead.

Also, the name of the god the Greeks called Anubis is transliterated from the original 'glyphs as inpu (or inpw, depending on your transliteration system). Yinepu is a reconstruction which I have not, as yet, seen outside the House of Netjer- and of which I am not entirely convinced as yet. I think "Anpu" is likely a better rendition, as that first hieroglyph has two possible readings and the initial /y/ sound is relatively rare in the Egyptian language.

An alternate spelling of Hrw (also Heru) is simply Hr- sometimes reconstructed as Hor, but equally valid as Her. That fact can be interesting when examining the Greek forms of names for various Heru gods (the "Horus" part of the name is shortened to "Har" or "Hor" in most of them, check it out!).
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 5:18 pm


King Robert Silvermyst
Alot of people in today's society, and even here as I have read some posts, use names they believe to be the Egyptian names of the Gods and Goddesses, but they are actually Greek names. Archeologists use primarilly the Greek names due to some Egyptian names being hard to pronounce, and since because they have been used for so long, they would have to reread everything they originally translated. Here, I'll list the Greek names and translate it into Egyptian via several sources (kemet.org, The Ancient Egyptian Prayerbook among them.)

Greek........................Egyptian
-------------------------------------
Amen........................Amun
Anubis.......................Yinepu
Apis...........................Wesir-hapi
Apophis......................Apep
Bastet........................Bast
Chons........................Khonsu
Edjo...........................Wadjet
Ennead.......................Pesedjet
Hathor.......................Hethert
Horus........................ Heru
Harendotes.................Heru-nedj-it-ef "Heru, Savior of His Father"
Harmachis..................Heru-em-Akhet "Heru-in-the-Horizon"
Haroeris.....................Heru-wer "Heru the Elder"
Harpocrates................Heru-pa-khered "Heru the Child"
Harseisis....................Heru-sa-Aset "Heru, Son of Aset"
Horakthy....................Ra-Heru-akhety "Ra-Heru of Two Horizons"
Imouthis.....................Imhotep
Isis............................Aset
Mihos.........................Maahes
Mayet.........................Ma`at
Monthis.......................Montu
Nephthys.....................Nebt-het
Neith...........................Nit
Osiris..........................Wesir
Re..............................Ra
Sachmis......................Sekhmet
Satis...........................Satet
Selkis.........................Serqet
Seth...........................Set
Suchos........................Sebek
Sokaris........................Sokar
Sirius...........................Sopdet
Thoueris.......................Tawaret
Thoth...........................Djehuty


Hope this helps ^.^


This should be made into a sticky.

Hellenistic Wisdom


WebenBanu

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:45 pm


*nods* Yes, this thread should definitely be stickied.

On the subject of the name of Bast- this has been a point of great interest to me. The Greek rendition of Bast is Bubastis. The name is transliterated from the hieroglyphs as bAst, and sometimes as bAstt- the latter form is a remnant from a time when final /t/ endings (a common feminine suffix) were being dropped from pronunciation in the spoken language. The final /t/ on certain words, such as the name of this goddess, were then doubled up in writing to ensure that the /t/ would still be pronounced- even after the final one was dropped. That is the origin of the Bast/Bastet confusion today- not so much an issue of an Egyptian vs. a Greek name, but simply two different spellings from different phases of the Egyptian language. No matter how you look at it, though, it's still pronounced Bast (with a short /a/- pronounced as in father)! wink
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:17 pm


Sometimes I get really angry at the greeks. They stole everytyhing from the egyptions, and claimed it was theirs. Even the gods!!! scream

sabretoothlioness


CSA Rebel Angel

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:24 am


King Robert Silvermyst
Alot of people in today's society, and even here as I have read some posts, use names they believe to be the Egyptian names of the Gods and Goddesses, but they are actually Greek names. Archeologists use primarilly the Greek names due to some Egyptian names being hard to pronounce, and since because they have been used for so long, they would have to reread everything they originally translated. Here, I'll list the Greek names and translate it into Egyptian via several sources (kemet.org, The Ancient Egyptian Prayerbook among them.)

Greek........................Egyptian
-------------------------------------
Amen........................Amun
Anubis.......................Yinepu
Apis...........................Wesir-hapi
Apophis......................Apep
Bastet........................Bast
Chons........................Khonsu
Edjo...........................Wadjet
Ennead.......................Pesedjet
Hathor.......................Hethert
Horus........................ Heru
Harendotes.................Heru-nedj-it-ef "Heru, Savior of His Father"
Harmachis..................Heru-em-Akhet "Heru-in-the-Horizon"
Haroeris.....................Heru-wer "Heru the Elder"
Harpocrates................Heru-pa-khered "Heru the Child"
Harseisis....................Heru-sa-Aset "Heru, Son of Aset"
Horakthy....................Ra-Heru-akhety "Ra-Heru of Two Horizons"
Imouthis.....................Imhotep
Isis............................Aset
Mihos.........................Maahes
Mayet.........................Ma`at
Monthis.......................Montu
Nephthys.....................Nebt-het
Neith...........................Nit
Osiris..........................Wesir
Re..............................Ra
Sachmis......................Sekhmet
Satis...........................Satet
Selkis.........................Serqet
Seth...........................Set
Suchos........................Sebek
Sokaris........................Sokar
Sirius...........................Sopdet
Thoueris.......................Tawaret
Thoth...........................Djehuty
Hope this helps ^.^


I hate to break it to you, however, the Greek names are much different. The dieties are the same but those are not the Greek names. The Greeks completely changed the names in order to not be associated with the Egyptians who they thought of as inferiors. For example: the name Hathor was changed to Aphrodite. The name Asar/Orisis was changed to Hades. The name Isis/Aset was changed to Hera. This is not true for every diety though. Some were changed as shown before, but I do believe most people have at least some idea of what I'm talking about. The Greeks' entire crew of Gods who sat atop Mount Olympus were ALL talken from the Egyptians and the Gods of Rome were ALL talken from the Greeks.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:30 am


CSA Rebel Angel
I hate to break it to you, however, the Greek names are much different. The dieties are the same but those are not the Greek names. The Greeks completely changed the names in order to not be associated with the Egyptians who they thought of as inferiors. For example: the name Hathor was changed to Aphrodite. The name Asar/Orisis was changed to Hades. The name Isis/Aset was changed to Hera. This is not true for every diety though. Some were changed as shown before, but I do believe most people have at least some idea of what I'm talking about. The Greeks' entire crew of Gods who sat atop Mount Olympus were ALL talken from the Egyptians and the Gods of Rome were ALL talken from the Greeks.
I'm confused, if the Greek names are those from the Greek Orthdoxy then where did the names we use today come from? The Egyptian names shown are definatly Egyptian as I have read them at temples but what about the other names?

Rennie`
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CSA Rebel Angel

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:22 pm


Rennie`
CSA Rebel Angel
I hate to break it to you, however, the Greek names are much different. The dieties are the same but those are not the Greek names. The Greeks completely changed the names in order to not be associated with the Egyptians who they thought of as inferiors. For example: the name Hathor was changed to Aphrodite. The name Asar/Orisis was changed to Hades. The name Isis/Aset was changed to Hera. This is not true for every diety though. Some were changed as shown before, but I do believe most people have at least some idea of what I'm talking about. The Greeks' entire crew of Gods who sat atop Mount Olympus were ALL talken from the Egyptians and the Gods of Rome were ALL talken from the Greeks.
I'm confused, if the Greek names are those from the Greek Orthdoxy then where did the names we use today come from? The Egyptian names shown are definatly Egyptian as I have read them at temples but what about the other names?

What I have found is that the names were kept the same, essentially, by the Greek but changed for their convience. Also a single diety would have multipe names or spellings of a single name. This was a result of one diety presiding over more than one thing. For example when Asar/Orisis is refered to then one of the names would be before he was made God of the Underworld and the other when he was the God of Vegetation. Does that help?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:35 am


The list here is based on the names that have been used by archeologists which were written upon Greek papyri. I'm not refering to the Greek renaming the Egyptian Gods/Goddesses as htier own deities, but the names that were originally used by the greeks when speaking of the egyptian pantheon before thier syncrinization of deities. Many people now a days use the names that the archeologists use, and they use the names translated from greek papyri. The only real purpose of this list is so people can see the true egyptian Names of the egyptian Deities as compared to the names that are used today.

King Robert Silvermyst


CSA Rebel Angel

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:20 am


Now that we have THAT cleared up...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:22 pm


CSA Rebel Angel
I hate to break it to you, however, the Greek names are much different. The dieties are the same but those are not the Greek names. The Greeks completely changed the names in order to not be associated with the Egyptians who they thought of as inferiors. For example: the name Hathor was changed to Aphrodite. The name Asar/Orisis was changed to Hades. The name Isis/Aset was changed to Hera. This is not true for every diety though. Some were changed as shown before, but I do believe most people have at least some idea of what I'm talking about. The Greeks' entire crew of Gods who sat atop Mount Olympus were ALL talken from the Egyptians and the Gods of Rome were ALL talken from the Greeks.


No, actually the Greeks viewed the Egyptians as a font of spiritual wisdom, and for many of their philosophers a period of study in Egypt was considered so essential to establish a good reputation that many of them lied about having it. The Egyptians viewed the Greeks as inferior, and refused to share many of their theological and philosophical studies with them. Those Greeks who say they gained admission into training had to ingratiate themselves for a year or more before being trusted, and I suspect that even then they weren't getting as much of an insight as they thought they were. The Egyptians felt the Greeks were childish in their understanding of religion, which- I hate to say, but- I kind of agree with them, considering the Greeks' tendency to identify their gods with any and everyone else's, based on the most superficial of similarities.

The names which Robert is giving as "Greek" names are in fact the Greek renditions of the Egyptian names. Aphrodite, Hades, etc. were Greek gods, and were not taken from Egyptian culture. The Greeks were worshiping these gods long before they began heavy interaction with the Egyptians across the sea. However, the Greeks were fond of identifying things as manifestations of archetypes or concepts- so when they found out that the Egyptians also had a goddess associated with love and beauty they assumed that it must be the same deity as their Aphrodite. In fact, they were quite different, however that didn't stop the Greeks from averaging them together and sometimes writing about Hwt-Hrw/Hathor's myths and switching any reference to the goddess with Aphrodite's name. However, the Greeks did sometimes did attempt to use the Egyptian names- at one point they even imported the cults of some gods, particularly Isis, and set up temples to them back home in Greece. Unfortunately, as already mentioned the Greeks liked to average things together as expressions of a common archetype, rather than maintaining the integrity of an original system, and so the Greek versions of the Egyptian gods ended up being sometimes quite different from the original Egyptian versions. This is why many people consider the deities refered to under the Greek versions of their names to be like speparate entities from their Egyptian counterparts- however, this is where we get names such as Hathor, etc., which many scholars still use today.

These names are used because when Egyptology began, we could not read hieroglyphs and had to rely on the Greeks to tell us what these gods were named. The Greek renditions of the names are more or less similar to the originals, and can be helpful in reconstructing the original pronunciation of the names for someone who is familiar with Greek phonetics and accents. However, most people are not, and the names- once converted into our alphabet- look and become pronounced so differently from the Egyptian versions that they are unrecognizable to most people.

So, Robert has provided us with this chart in order to help people match up the Greekized versions of the Egyptian names with a more direct approximation of the original ones. There are a couple of mistakes, I think- but for the most part it's a very helpful resource.

WebenBanu


King Robert Silvermyst

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:02 pm


Thank you for the in-depth clarification ^.^
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:44 pm


One thing I'm good at is long-winded explanations. wink

WebenBanu


King Robert Silvermyst

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:15 pm


I think I accidentally unstickied this when I edited the first post.
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