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 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:41 am
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:50 am
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:16 am
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The Lord Told Me
by Cameron Buettel
The church has fallen into a dangerous pattern when it comes to divine direction. Too many believers today are trying to hear directly from God—whether through an audible voice or a stirring of their souls. Worse still are the people who legitimize everything from heresy to fundraising schemes to simple personal decisions by asserting the leading of the Lord.
I’ve seen numerous young men—particularly those in churches that allow and encourage modern prophecy and revelation—deploy divine decree as a last ditch attempt to win over girls who have declined their romantic advances. Tragically, many women have caved to the claim that “God told me to marry you” and been snared in loveless marriages. One of my friends, cornered by such a proposal, had the presence of mind to respond by saying, “God wouldn’t be so cruel.”
The assertion, “The Lord told me” is regularly employed as a sanctified shield for all sorts of claims. Spend a few minutes watching TBN or another charismatic network for all the proof you need. And to undiscerning eyes and ears, it’s generally an effective way to insulate a spurious message from the scrutiny of critics and dissenters. After all, who wants to take sides against the Lord and His messengers?
But believers cannot allow that unsubstantiated claim to disconnect our discernment, or give a free pass to everyone with the temerity to claim they speak for God. Instead, we need to measure every message against the truth of God’s Word.
Joyce Meyer’s books are littered with stories of the casual conversations she has with God. Moreover, she has sought to validate her entire ministry based on the direct channel of communication she supposedly enjoys with the Creator of the universe. One academic researcher, with strong feminist leanings, made the following observation:
In “Grace, Grace, and More Grace,” another one of Meyer’s later recorded sermons, she states nineteen times that her message is divinely inspired. More importantly, in this sermon she justifies her ministry and preaching in general by claiming God called her. For example, here Meyer stresses that even though she struggled when she began her ministry, divine authority was on her side: “Do you know how many years I frustrated myself tryin’ to make this ministry come to pass, and it was certainly God’s will. He said it. It was God’s call; God had anointed me.” Therefore, the message that she gives her audience is that she cannot refuse the “call” and remain silent. By reminding her audiences that each sermon and message is “anointed,” she reaffirms her authority and establishes that she is subject to a higher authority than the doctrinal leaders who might insist she remain silent. [1]
John MacArthur has observed the “God told me” phenomenon from the vantage point of five decades expounding what God has already said in Scripture:
“God told me . . .” has become the anthem of the Charismatic Movement. Strange private prophecies are proclaimed by all kinds of people who evidently believe God speaks to them. Surely the most infamous is Oral Roberts’ preposterous death-threat prophecy. In 1987 Roberts told his nationwide audience that God had threatened to “call him home” if he couldn’t raise eight million dollars by his creditors’ deadline. Whether and how that threat might have been carried out, the world will never know; Roberts received a last-minute reprieve in the form of a large check from a Florida dog-track owner. [2]
Even Charismatic author and pastor, R. T. Kendall concedes the prevalence of the problem in his theological circles:
What must be avoided in any case is people saying “Thus saith the Lord” or “The Lord told me.” Speaking like this is not only highly presumptuous but is taking the name of the Lord in vain. . . . It is using God’s name—the worst possible kind of name dropping—to elevate your own credibility. You are not thinking of the Lord’s credibility but your own when you bring in His name. [3]
Ironically, Kendall’s book is endorsed by some of the worst and most visible prophetic frauds—John Arnott, Mike Bickle, John Hagee, and Bill Johnson, to name a few. Such is the delusion (or deceitfulness) of these men that they can read the above quote and think it applies to some other charlatan. Even Kendall, while renouncing “Thus saith the Lord,” is more than willing to speak out the other side of his mouth:
The late Oral Roberts was the most famous of these [people with the supernatural gift of healing]. I was privileged to meet him at his home in California three times. On one of those occasions he told me of a moment when the Lord spoke powerfully to him in his hallway a few days before. [4]
It should not be lost on us that extra-biblical revelation is necessary to support any agenda not revealed in the Bible. Dreams, liver shivers, and voices from heaven may impress the naïve and appeal to lazy students of Scripture but, as Peter said, “we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place” (2 Peter 1:19). Peter had actually heard God’s voice from heaven (Matthew 17:5; 2 Peter 1:17–18.) but still counted Scripture as a “more sure” revelation. And John MacArthur couldn’t agree more:
The truth is, there is no fresher or more intimate revelation than Scripture. God does not need to give private revelation to help us in our walk with Him. “All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:16–17, emphasis added). Scripture is sufficient. It offers all we need for every good work.
Christians on both sides of the charismatic fence must realize a vital truth: God’s revelation is complete for now. The canon of Scripture is closed. As the apostle John penned the final words of the last book of the New Testament, he recorded this warning: “I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book” (Revelation 22:18–19). [5]
It’s worth pointing out that this problem isn’t exclusive to charismatic believers. The rise of mysticism in the church has encouraged Christians of all stripes to pursue direct, personal experiences with the Lord through contemplative prayer and other mystical practices. Others simply give too much credence to the spiritual receptivity of their guts. In either extreme—or anywhere in between—the message is clear: God’s Word is not enough.
That cannot be the testimony of the church. We must exalt and extol the authority and sufficiency of Scripture, upholding it as God’s complete and inerrant revelation to His people. And we need to guard ourselves and others from the influence of those who pretend to speak for God.
The next time you hear someone say, “The Lord told me,” kindly ask them to provide the chapter and verse as well.
The Lord Told Me
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Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:43 am
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I understand what they're saying about Christian clichés; I've come across them too and have seen how they fail to help the unbeliever—and in fact, the cliché turns them away more so than scripture.
As it relates to “the Lord said” and “leading of the Lord”, at first this seems to be the core of the message:
Quote: But believers cannot allow that unsubstantiated claim to disconnect our discernment, or give a free pass to everyone with the temerity to claim they speak for God. Instead, we need to measure every message against the truth of God’s Word.
And yes, we should test every claim coming out of a believer's mouth against the truth of scripture.
However, he twisted a few things and is suffering from what I would call “theological cliche” that Scripture does not support.
1. He twisted the meaning of John's warning:
Quote: Christians on both sides of the charismatic fence must realize a vital truth: God’s revelation is complete for now. The canon of Scripture is closed. As the apostle John penned the final words of the last book of the New Testament, he recorded this warning: “I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book” (Revelation 22:18–19). [5]
...the warning is against adding words to the book of Revelation itself (which is the vision John received from Jesus). Don't add to John's vision or take anything away from John's vision. Or else, you're cursed. Just like the prohibition to add to the law and/or take away from the law (but other scrolls were written after this, such as the Book of Joshua, Judges, the prophet's writings, the psalms, etc).
Deuteronomy 4:2 (NIV)
2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you.
Deuteronomy 12:32 (NIV)
32 See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it.[a]
Footnotes:
a. Deuteronomy 12:32 In Hebrew texts this verse (12:32) is numbered 13:1.
I don't think that's the same thing as saying, “the Book of Revelation is it; no more divinely inspired writings exist after that point”. Especially if we are divinely inspired.
2 Corinthians 3:3 (NIV)
3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
If these living letters of Christ (born-again believers) were to write down their life stories...wouldn't their life story / history be divinely inspired? question The life of Samson (as sinful as it was) is divinely inspired history, even if his theology was wrong (the book of judges relates a time when believers were not the most truthful-to-covenant in their spirituality, and that's putting it lightly).
Judges 2:11 (NIV)
11 Then the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the Lord and served the Baals.
Judges 17:6 (KJV)
6 In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.
Samson may not have written it himself, but his life story was inspired. And his biography, interpreted in light of God's commands, became scripture.
---
2. That said, of the allegations made against Joyce Meyer, the allegations themselves actually negated bible verses, if he was insinuating it wasn't possible anymore.
For instance,
Quote: Joyce Meyer’s books are littered with stories of the casual conversations she has with God. Moreover, she has sought to validate her entire ministry based on the direct channel of communication she supposedly enjoys with the Creator of the universe. […]
Is he insinuating that this is not a reality? Of what I've heard of Joyce Meyer, though she errs in many of the ways mainstream does, she does understand things of the Spirit, unlike an unregenerate person who thinks we're mumbling nonsense.
Also, every born-again, follower of Christ has that direct channel of communication—not just some Israelite prophet, or an Israelite judge, but even Gentiles and the common people of all nations who receive the Holy Spirit.
Joel 2:28 (NIV)
28 “And afterward,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your old men will dream dreams,
your young men will see visions.
This is not limited to apostles authenticating a message or the prophets of Israel.
Yes, there is a danger in people saying, “YHWH said this or that”, when in actuality our Heavenly Father has not sent them to say it (even in Jeremiah's day this was happening)...
Jeremiah 23:21-22 (NIV)
21 I did not send these prophets,
yet they have run with their message;
I did not speak to them,
yet they have prophesied.
22 But if they had stood in my council,
they would have proclaimed my words to my people
and would have turned them from their evil ways
and from their evil deeds.
...that's why we have to test them all.
If they negate the commands of God, then they're not true.
1 Thessalonians 5:20-22 (NIV)
20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt 21 but test them all; hold on to what is good, 22 reject every kind of evil.
Our standard of what is good:
1 Timothy 1:8 (NIV)
8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.
Romans 7:12 (NIV)
12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
Our standard of what is evil
(and “evil” in the sense of “morally evil”, not “evil” in the sense of “calamity/disaster”)
2 Kings 17:13 (NIV)
13 The Lord warned Israel and Judah through all his prophets and seers: “Turn from your evil ways. Observe my commands and decrees, in accordance with the entire Law that I commanded your ancestors to obey and that I delivered to you through my servants the prophets.”
So, if the prophet is not teaching us God's words/commands, but instead is prophesying visions out of their own minds (thus resulting in people not turning away from what God defines as evil / transgression of his commands), then he (or she) is a false prophet.
The instruction of 1st Thessalonians 5:20-22 is still applicable: even to this day we must test them.
That the gift of prophecy continues is made all the more evident by passages like Revelation 11, prophesying about a time after the apostles: the two witnesses/prophets at end times.
Revelation 11:3 (NIV)
3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”
Revelation 11:7-10 (NIV)
7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. 8 Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified. 9 For three and a half days some from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. 10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.
Note: I would quote from the epistles themselves but people would just say, “nope, that was just for the apostle's time”. I'm not aware of what other book I can go to, other than the Book of Revelation, to prove this.
There's no point in making our sons and daughters dream dreams, see visions, and prophesy if it's just a gift for the apostles to use to establish the gospel and write the bible. We are to have discernment directly from Christ (and if it contradicts the Word and his commands, then it is not of the Holy Spirit).
Quote: she reaffirms her authority and establishes that she is subject to a higher authority than the doctrinal leaders who might insist she remain silent. [1]
Three things here:
First, why oh why is he quoting a feminist, academic researcher? As if her assessment will have any true discernment? That log in her eye will not allow her to see the speck in Meyer's.
Secondly, Jesus had, and continues to have, higher authority over the doctrinal leaders of the day. If something the “doctrinal leaders” are saying is in error, because they are ignorant of the scriptures, then yes there is a higher authority we should submit to: Jesus.
Galatians 1:1 (NIV)
1 Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead—
Paul's authority came from Jesus. He didn't get approval or training from teachers of doctrine to be an apostle. Jesus chose him directly.
Likewise, so does every other believer:
Ephesians 4:11-13 (NIV)
11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
Third, it sounds like this feminist commentator fell into the same misinterpretation of Paul's epistle that most fall into for failing to notice the Greek (forbidding a wife from having teaching authority over her own husband in the marriage relationship i.e. 1 Timothy 2:11-12; and in the context of that epistle, about keeping order in the congregation, for wives not to interrupt the sermon with questions, but ask their husbands at home. [Afterall, there's no pause button or rewinding when sitting in a live sermon; so do not interrupt; words will be missed]).
That's not a “full out ban” on women to stay silent in front of men, or in a church. Women are allowed to pray and prophesy in church. And married women as long as their long hair is covered (1 Corinthians 11:5), thus signifying that they're married and submitted under the protection of their husband. And the reason why they need a sign that they're married/have a husband is because of the angels (whatever that means):
1 Corinthians 11:10 (NIV)
10 It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own[a] head, because of the angels.
Footnotes:
a. 1 Corinthians 11:10 Or have a sign of authority on her
Angels bringing messages of prophecy...are...what? enticed by woman's beauty? I don't know. But they need to cover that beauty if they're married.
These women are not apostles. But they are prophesying. In church. So, I don't know what they're getting at by suggesting that prophesying has stopped or was only for apostolic purposes, or to get the canon of scripture written. And there is a place for women to speak in the church: when praying or prophesying. Paul is not giving an all-out ban that a woman cannot open her mouth ever in church. Just at the appropriate times, in orderly fashion.
3.
Quote: The truth is, there is no fresher or more intimate revelation than Scripture. God does not need to give private revelation to help us in our walk with Him. “All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:16–17, emphasis added). Scripture is sufficient. It offers all we need for every good work.
As true as it is that Scripture gives revelation and equips us, God doesn't solely use Scripture to help us in our walk. He uses dreams to correct and rebuke people, just like he did in the Old Testament.
Job 33:14-18 (NIV)
14 For God does speak—now one way, now another—
though no one perceives it.
15 In a dream, in a vision of the night,
when deep sleep falls on people
as they slumber in their beds,
16 he may speak in their ears
and terrify them with warnings,
17 to turn them from wrongdoing
and keep them from pride,
18 to preserve them from the pit,
their lives from perishing by the sword.[a]
Footnotes:
a. Job 33:18 Or from crossing the river
That is what I would call “fresh”. God's words in Scripture are powerful and always-relevant, but there's nothing more “fresh” than God using an occurrence that happened the day before, and having it (or a spiritually-equivalent circumstance) appear in your mind, in your dreams, to teach you about how he viewed it through his eyes (whether you need correction/rebuke over it or more finely-tuned discernment over what happened). Perhaps the author of this article just hasn't been able to perceive the other ways God speaks, but God does speak through more than just Scripture. Thus, why everyone is without excuse.
Romans 1:20 (NIV)
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
What he could say is that there's nothing more “clearer” than Scripture. Because as “fresh” as I find the revelation given to me in a dream (or as “fresh” as I find a live-action parable, something demonstrated by nature in front of me), it's not with the same level of clarity as scripture. The dream, and nature, has to be interpreted through biblical lenses.
All that to say, this article is suffering from theological cliches (leaven of the Pharisees, traditional theological claims that do not align with the written word). Prophecy is still for today (but it better be tested) and women can prophesy in the church if they do so obediently, with a sign of authority over their head if they're married, and in an orderly fashion. They receive their authority from Jesus just like everyone else.
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