Building a duelist rogue (3.5 D&D)

[Lord of the Vine]

So I'm going to be playing in a campaign, and for the first time ever, I decided to play a rogue. Problem is, I don't want to be strictly a sneaky-sneaky rogue; I had the idea of being more of the silver-tongued duelist type. I'd do this with fighter, but again, silver-tongued. XD

So what would be the best way of going about making a duelist-type rogue?

EDIT: Should clarify a few things:

1) Its set in Middle Earth.
2) I'm playing a human for this to start.
3) This is what I have so far.  

[Raganui Minamoto]

3 levels of Swashbuckler and the feat that lets rogue and swashbuckler levels stack for some class features.  

[Lord of the Vine]

Raganui Minamoto

3 levels of Swashbuckler and the feat that lets rogue and swashbuckler levels stack for some class features.

Interesting...I'll look into that.

So basically go Swashbuckler 3/Rogue 2?

EDIT: Not having much luck finding that particular feat.
EDIT 2: Ah, Daring Outlaw.
EDIT 3: ...Wait a tic; Daring Outlaw has prereqs of Grace +1 and Sneak Attack +2d6. Don't you mean 2 levels of Swash and 3 levels of Rogue?  

[Alzzak]

few options, I can think of...

First; there are a number of feats in Complete Scoundrel that work off of Sneak attack, except dealing other effects(silence, bleed damage, slow movement; I can't remember the others.)

Second: Scout; ether the normal Skirmish or Riposte the web enhancement version, that allows you to deal Skirmish damage and get AC bonus against the person(s if you have multiple attacks) who tried to hit you.

Fourth: I can't remember where I found it, probably in the Magic Item book, but their is a weapon enchantment that makes the able to preform sneak attacks for the next 10 rounds, or something like that. That and you could combine that with a Planer's Handbook that gives the same for each target(for a charge or throw attack), once per 24 hours.

I have others, but most of them I can't remember where to find them and Wizards took down my favorite 3.5 site. ninja

Ignore them, I thought you where keeping Sneak attack. And it is as a Fighter's feat progression.  

[Lord of the Vine]

Alzzak

few options, I can think of...

First; there are a number of feats in Complete Scoundrel that work off of Sneak attack, except dealing other effects(silence, bleed damage, slow movement; I can't remember the others.)

Second: Scout; ether the normal Skirmish or Riposte the web enhancement version, that allows you to deal Skirmish damage and get AC bonus against the person(s if you have multiple attacks) who tried to hit you.

Fourth: I can't remember where I found it, probably in the Magic Item book, but their is a weapon enchantment that makes the able to preform sneak attacks for the next 10 rounds, or something like that. That and you could combine that with a Planer's Handbook that gives the same for each target(for a charge or throw attack), once per 24 hours.

I have others, but most of them I can't remember where to find them and Wizards took down my favorite 3.5 site. ninja

Ignore them, I thought you where keeping Sneak attack. And it is as a Fighter's feat progression.

Looking it over, the benefits are outweighed by the drawbacks. Sneak Attack is fine.

EDIT: I was able to find D&D Tools. Its on a .pw server now, same name and everything.  

[Alzzak]

Mayor of Murderwood

Alzzak

few options, I can think of...

First; there are a number of feats in Complete Scoundrel that work off of Sneak attack, except dealing other effects(silence, bleed damage, slow movement; I can't remember the others.)

Second: Scout; ether the normal Skirmish or Riposte the web enhancement version, that allows you to deal Skirmish damage and get AC bonus against the person(s if you have multiple attacks) who tried to hit you.

Fourth: I can't remember where I found it, probably in the Magic Item book, but their is a weapon enchantment that makes the able to preform sneak attacks for the next 10 rounds, or something like that. That and you could combine that with a Planer's Handbook that gives the same for each target(for a charge or throw attack), once per 24 hours.

I have others, but most of them I can't remember where to find them and Wizards took down my favorite 3.5 site. ninja

Ignore them, I thought you where keeping Sneak attack. And it is as a Fighter's feat progression.

Looking it over, the benefits are outweighed by the drawbacks. Sneak Attack is fine.

EDIT: I was able to find D&D Tools. Its on a .pw server now, same name and everything.

you are now my new best friend...  

[Raganui Minamoto]

To be fair, Mr. Mayor, I would still grab the 3rd level of Swashbuckler when you can. And since you need Grace and SA, you take the combo-feat at level 6 with the 3rd level of either class. Of course, my thought process is due to the fact that, as a rogue, I generally assume you have a decent intelligence to use the swashbuckler's 3rd level feature. But if you do not, then perhaps ignore that 3rd level and just have the two.

On the upside, since Swashbuckler gives you Weapon Finesse, you can put that early feat somewhere else. Maybe think of taking a masterwork buckler or small shield (like some fencers use), since it will have no penalty.  

[Lord of the Vine]

Alzzak

Mayor of Murderwood

Alzzak

few options, I can think of...

First; there are a number of feats in Complete Scoundrel that work off of Sneak attack, except dealing other effects(silence, bleed damage, slow movement; I can't remember the others.)

Second: Scout; ether the normal Skirmish or Riposte the web enhancement version, that allows you to deal Skirmish damage and get AC bonus against the person(s if you have multiple attacks) who tried to hit you.

Fourth: I can't remember where I found it, probably in the Magic Item book, but their is a weapon enchantment that makes the able to preform sneak attacks for the next 10 rounds, or something like that. That and you could combine that with a Planer's Handbook that gives the same for each target(for a charge or throw attack), once per 24 hours.

I have others, but most of them I can't remember where to find them and Wizards took down my favorite 3.5 site. ninja

Ignore them, I thought you where keeping Sneak attack. And it is as a Fighter's feat progression.

Looking it over, the benefits are outweighed by the drawbacks. Sneak Attack is fine.

EDIT: I was able to find D&D Tools. Its on a .pw server now, same name and everything.

you are now my new best friend...

So since I'm reincorporating the sneak attack option in lieu of not taking the duelist track (doesn't seem to be worthwhile if I can be a swashbuckler/scout/rogue and not worry about prereqs)...  

[Lord of the Vine]

Raganui Minamoto

To be fair, Mr. Mayor, I would still grab the 3rd level of Swashbuckler when you can. And since you need Grace and SA, you take the combo-feat at level 6 with the 3rd level of either class. Of course, my thought process is due to the fact that, as a rogue, I generally assume you have a decent intelligence to use the swashbuckler's 3rd level feature. But if you do not, then perhaps ignore that 3rd level and just have the two.

On the upside, since Swashbuckler gives you Weapon Finesse, you can put that early feat somewhere else. Maybe think of taking a masterwork buckler or small shield (like some fencers use), since it will have no penalty.

And without the need to prestige into duelist, I won't have to worry about the armor penalty (aka +Int mod to AC when not wearing armor).

I getcha. I'll build with that in mind.

So would it be better to pair the Swashbuckler with Rogue or with Scout?  

[Alzzak]

unless if you plan to change your plan, of being a silver tongue duelist, I would stay with Swashbuckler/rogue. But, if you want to change your plan to be a reactive or active moving annoying bug on the battlefield, Then change to a Scout.

I only say this as a rogue's sneak attack can benefit from Bluff and other social skills, where Skirmish can't. And your character can be the group's social leader.  

[Raganui Minamoto]

Alzzak

unless if you plan to change your plan, of being a silver tongue duelist, I would stay with Swashbuckler/rogue. But, if you want to change your plan to be a reactive or active moving annoying bug on the battlefield, Then change to a Scout.

I only say this as a rogue's sneak attack can benefit from Bluff and other social skills, where Skirmish can't. And your character can be the group's social leader.

What he said.  

[Lord of the Vine]

Alzzak

unless if you plan to change your plan, of being a silver tongue duelist, I would stay with Swashbuckler/rogue. But, if you want to change your plan to be a reactive or active moving annoying bug on the battlefield, Then change to a Scout.

I only say this as a rogue's sneak attack can benefit from Bluff and other social skills, where Skirmish can't. And your character can be the group's social leader.

I'm mulling between the two ideas. I do like the Swashbuckler, so that will remain. However, I'm having a hard time deciding between Scout and Rogue.  

[Raganui Minamoto]

Honestly, I always found Scout better for running a bowman, since you had to keep on the move anyways.  

[Lord of the Vine]

Raganui Minamoto

Honestly, I always found Scout better for running a bowman, since you had to keep on the move anyways.

I had the idea of being more of the "I can move around my opponent with elegance, grace, and...welp" attitude, so Scout would fit nicely with their ability.

I think I'll go with that.  

[Alzzak]

If that is the case, I would suggest taking Powerful Charge, and other charge related feats? Being moving ten feet activates charge, same distance for the Scout's Skirmish.

Ether way the choice is yours, have fun welping