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 Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:12 pm
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PLEASE HELP ME EXPLAIN THESE MISINTERPERTATIONS OF THE BIBLE SOMEONE SENT ME THIS LIST AND I NEED TO DEFEND CHRISTIANITY.
1."I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet." (1 Timothy 2:12)
2."Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses." (1 Samuel 15:3)
3."You shall not let a sorceress live." (Exodus 22:1smilies/icon_cool.gif
4."Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock." (Psalm 137:9)
5."When the men would not listen to his host, the husband seized his concubine and thrust her outside to them. They had relations with her and abused her all night until the following dawn, when they let her go. Then at daybreak the woman came and collapsed at the entrance of the house in which her husband was a guest, where she lay until the morning. When her husband rose that day and opened the door of the house to start out again on his journey, there lay the woman, his concubine, at the entrance of the house with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, 'Come, let us go'; but there was no answer. So the man placed her on an a** and started out again for home." (Judges 19:25-2smilies/icon_cool.gif
6."And the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity." (Romans 1:27)
7."Jephthah made a vow to the Lord. 'If you deliver the Ammonites into my power,' he said, 'whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites shall belong to the Lord. I shall offer him up as a holocaust.' ... When Jephthah returned to his house in Mizpah, it was his daughter who came forth, playing the tambourines and dancing. She was an only child: he had neither son nor daughter besides her. When he saw her, he rent his garments and said, 'Alas, daughter, you have struck me down and brought calamity upon me. For I have made a vow to the Lord and I cannot retract'." (Judges 11:30-1, 34-5)
8."Then God said: 'Take your son Isaac, your only one, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah. There you shall offer him up as a holocaust on a height that I will point out to you'."(Genesis 22:2)
9."Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22)
10."Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:1smilies/icon_cool.gif
God says it's not just OK to own slaves, but it is also A-OK to beat them to death. As long as they take a couple days to die. That's really messed up, and it's found in Exodus 21:20-21. Also see Leviticus 25:44-46, Ephesians 6:5, and 1 Timothy 6:1-2. Nowhere in the Bible is there any instruction that slavery is bad.
- God accepts sex slavery and ritual human sacrifice. As long as it's to him, rather than some competing deity. I'd talk about the Abraham and Isaac story, but that one has slight ambiguities which apologists love to exploit. Not so with Numbers 31. The cliff notes version: God tells Moses to take out revenge on the Midianites by doing the ethnic cleansing thing on them. All the Midianite men were killed. Livestock and material goods were taken as spoils. Women and children were taken as P.O.W.'s. Moses was angry that the women were allowed to live, since they might infect the Israelites with anti-YHWHistic ideas. Moses ordered all the boys and non-virgin women killed. The virgin girls were kept alive, and were taken by individual Israelites. The text doesn't explicitly say so, but anyone with half a brain knows that those young virgin girls were kept as sex slaves. 32,000 of them. On Moses' command. (Strangely, Moses didn't seem to think those virgin girls would entice people away from YHWH like their non-virgin counterparts would.) The virgin girls were divvied up between the warriors, the congregation, and the priests. And God. 32 virgin girls were given as a tribute offering to God (verses 40-41). Not to the priests. To God. And no complaints whatsoever are heard from God or anyone else in the Bible. That's really messed up.
- More total ethnic cleansing in 1 Samuel 15. God told Samuel and Saul to wipe out the current generation of Amalekites, since their ancestors opposed the ancestors of the current generation of Israelites during the Exodus (verse 3). It was reparations, of a sort: death. Men, women, children, babies, everyone. It was supposed to be everything as well, but Saul kept livestock and material goods and the king. God was not happy. God had wanted Saul to destroy everyone and everything. That's really messed up, and it's in the Bible.
- God mauled 42 boys for calling his prophet "baldy". 2 Kings 2:23-24. Apologists love to claim that "boys" is mistranslated, and it should be something more like "street thugs", and that calling Elisha "baldy" should be interpreted as a threat on his life. One might wonder where the hell apologists get such an idiotic notion from, but even if it were true, that still would not excuse such an action from an omnipotent deity. An omnipotent deity could easily have chosen to protect Elisha without harming the "thugs", via magical forcefield, or some other similar measure. But did he? Of course not. God's answer to pretty much any situation is death. (Noah's ark, anyone?) That's really messed up, and the Bible is absolutely brimming with it.
- How does god show of his power? In Exodus 11, God kills all the firstborn of Egypt (verses 4-5), purely as a display of power. Apologists will say God was forced into such drastic measures, because Pharaoh would not let the Israelites go, but this is not true. Pharaoh was already compliant, but God hardened Pharaoh's heart (Ex 10:27 and 11:10), in order to make a grander show if it all (Ex 11:9). That's really messed up, and it's promoted by the Bible.
- Enough Old Testament for now. On to Jesus' "family values". Have a look at Matthew 10:34-36. The "Prince of Peace" came not to bring peace, but to bring division, and to set family members against each other. That's really messed up, and it's promoted by the Bible.
- Even though it's a later insertion into the text, most churches love to talk up 2 Corinthians 6:14-18. That's the "don't be unequally yoked" garbage.
- More of Paul's misogyny can be found in 1 Timothy 2:9-15.
- Oh, and just for good measure... God hates everyone, according to the Bible. Romans 3:10 says everyone is a sinner. Psalm 5:5 says God hates all sinners. Not just sin. He hates all sinners. QED, God hates everyone. (Except Job, who was blameless (Job 1:1), and got tortured for his accomplishment.)
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Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:15 pm
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 8:34 am
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 8:54 pm
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 9:59 am
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 10:02 am
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Jesuslittleprincess kesuke uchiha well...lol there is a logical way to explain all the sections...though mind you...most of these have been taken WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY out of context as a means of attacking Christianity.... I have no idea where you got these suckers...but either you are attacking and trying to pry others away...or you fell for someone else's attack either way....you should not have posted these here I am a devout CHristian and someone has sent that list to me, trying to discredit Christianity. I was looking for some help on how to handle what was sent me. I wanted help defending CHristianity.
this is a little better then ^_^
first off...tell him to stop taking the bible out of context...then tell him not to confuse ancient culture with biblical teachings....
many things within that list are speaking of LAWS and not something that God spoke nor something that God told us to do...things that were sinful and eventually were up and booted from the laws by Christians.
but the best way to react to this person generally is to ignore him....some people are far beyond saving until they can learn to humble themselves.....like my sister >o< |
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 11:27 am
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 3:29 pm
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 4:02 pm
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Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 9:36 pm
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:03 am
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I went out of my way to look through the things you said. Some of which I could debunk, and some of them I couldn't.
One of those things I couldn't debunk was that the OT God seems to be really angry and genocides people way too much. But hey, maybe that will keep all the people whining about "there are too many humans on this planet!" happy.
I don't think you're trolling, because no one is that bad at it. I think you are just a legitimately concerned human being, and that's good. It's good to be concerned and question things sometimes.
If you ARE trolling, though... Troll harder. Sorry.
1. I know some people will object to my statement about the NT, but Paul was not Jesus. Also Paul was talking about how he wanted to run the church. He straight starts the section with "I desire therefore that..." and not "God said..." so this is what Paul wants, not God.
2. The OT was pretty violent, yeah. God was really angry with anyone who messed with Israel or perverted their ways. It really is a shame that he ordered genocide, though. I never really understood why God wanted to practically kill everyone in the OT, so I take the "God said to kill ___" thing with a grain of salt myself.
3. Exodus 22:1 says "If a man steals an ox or a sheep, and slaughters it or sells it, he shall restore five oxen for an ox and four sheep for a sheep."
So I thought you made a typo and checked Exodus 22:11, 2:11, and 2:1, and none of them have anything to do with sorcery, but then I realized you were talking about 22:18.
The ancient Jewish people had a lot of laws, what can I say? Moses wanted to keep society in order. And if sorceresses were going to upset that balance, it made sense to do the caveman-style thing and kill them. That's how they dealt with most of their problems back then before Jesus came along and told them to cut it out.
4. This was the last verse of a song about the Israeli people being in Babylon. Because Babylon is going to be destroyed (by whom it doesn't specify) the verse says that whoever is going to destroy Babylon is going to be delighted to do so. Here's the last section of the song:
"O daughter of Babylon, who are to be destroyed, happy the one who repays you as you have served us! Happy the one who takes and dashes your little ones against the rock!"
5. Just because one Jewish guy took a hooker doesn't mean we should take hookers. It's telling a story, not condoning what happened. Yeah there's some awful stuff that happens in the OT, but most of it is storytelling. Also yeah, for some reason the Jewish guy cut her up into pieces in the end. Honestly I have no clue what the point of this story was, but I'm pretty sure we're not suppose to take hookers and cut them up.
6. Yeah people did that a lot, actually. And they still do. I hear it was actually very common in the Mediterranean world at the time. Can't figure out what you're trying to say here.
7. Yeah burnt human sacrifice is pretty jacked up. But apparently the daughter agreed to it. God probably had a big hand to play in setting his daughter in place to be the one to be sacrificed. Chances are it was a lesson God was trying to teach Jephthah about not vowing to do stupid things.
Also, apparently this event was lamented by Israel, as evidenced by Judges 11:39-40
Nonetheless, I think it can be said that Jephthah made a very dumb vow.
8. Yeah I guess God really really likes burning people. Can't argue there.
9. Once again, Paul. Yeah he is a misogynist. But if it's any condolence to you, if you'd read the rest of that section, it also says "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her."
Unfortunately, it's we don't live in a perfect world without domestic abuse and power abuse in general, otherwise the whole "husbands treat your wives great, and women treat your husbands great" thing would actually work out.
10. Peter, not fond of him either. Also, maybe it's because I use NKJV (I'd like to read original Greek text someday to get a more accurate translation for everything), but I see "servants" instead of "slaves" written in mine. A servant has a really broad definition, as it could mean anyone from a slave to a worker to a housemaid to an indentured servant to a whole slew of other people who "serve" someone. Also, like the wife/husband thing, there are also parts of the Bible that mention a master should be good to their servants! Unfortunately, very few "masters" seem to follow that rule, which is just as important. The problem with people who think they're "elite" or having someone submit to them is that they often interpret it as a "I'm better than you so the rules don't apply to me!" kind of thing.
- About God hating everyone, you forget that Psalms is a book of songs. David (who was probably one of the worst kings in history, for so many reasons) wrote the song you're referring to here. The section which says "The boastful shall not stand in Your sight; You hate all workers of iniquity." which is basically putting words in God's mouth. Which ironically enough, is also a sin.
Also, supposedly Mary was blameless, too. So that's 2 out of 2, I guess. Also, even though Job suffered like probably no one else on this earth, God rewarded him for dealing with it like a boss by giving him back all the things he took from him, times two. Read Job 42:10-17, which is the end of the book.
- I like how you take one thing about Jesus and take it out of context.
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but division. For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her month, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law, and a man's enemies will be those of his own household.
He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it."
It's about dedicating your life to Christ and doing good deeds. And because not everyone is a good person, sometimes someone in your family won't want you to go out and do these things. I've found this to be true with my family. Some of them are not happy that I converted to Christianity and want to go out and help the poor because they aren't really into helping the poor, so that's the kind of division Jesus was talking about. It is an inevitable division. It can't be classified as something good or bad, it's just something that happens when you fight for what you think is right.
Anyways, most of your post doesn't seem to have as much to do with Christianity as it does ancient Judaism. Which, as you will notice, is very different from the teachings of Christ. Hence why Christianity is called Christianity.
Also, you seem to be going on the assumption that God wrote every last page and letter and verse of the Bible, and that every verse is translated perfectly. While a lot of Christians do believe that, I remain a skeptic about the Bible's 100% accuracy and truth as a whole. I only believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and the teachings of Christ. The Bible didn't even exist when Jesus was around, and I believe the physical church that was established years after his death has corrupted a lot of the original teachings and purpose and meaning behind Jesus. It's not a popular opinion I have, but it should give you a background on where I'm coming from.
But most of all, do yourself and the world a favor and don't read Sparknotes/cliffnotes/whatever. If you're gonna read a book, no matter how boring and chunky and long, just read the damn thing. If you don't have time to read, that's fine, just straight up admit it and move along.
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:07 am
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Ikatsui-Karite Manticore emorhconom esor Trolls don't listen to what you say, it's like arguing with a wall. Plus, she doesn't have enough training in apologetics to go against a troll. If she were to answer then he would counter with something else that she won't have an answer for. So why not explain where the troll went wrong anyways? You know, for us as a community to know how to correctly interpret the context of the verses? I'm sure a lot of challenged Christians would like to be sure that just because the Israelites took virgin girls captive doesn't mean they used the girls as sex slaves (for instance). It is an assumption made with no support whatsoever; it is just a bold claim that cannot be proven (a tactic trolls like to use to fool themselves into believing they've actually made a point). Also, I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that no one wants to go against a troll simply because they're not going to be making any visible progress.
I don't know, I didn't research the history on Israelites using enemy captive ladies as sex slaves... But knowing that they're far from perfect and really no better than any other civilization on the planet, regardless of whatever laws God and Moses put in place, I'm sure it happened anyways.
After all, it's like the "smoking weed" or "gun laws" argument. Just because a law is in place saying "you can't do X" or "X is not allowed" doesn't mean people aren't going to do it anyways.
God got mad at Israel a lot, for a variety of things. Chances are the Bible couldn't fit every last iniquity that every man ever committed. It would take up way too much space. |
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:11 am
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Reply
