General Game Discussion

[Evangeline Ingram]

So I was looking at this forum and I immediately noticed that there wasn't a thread for general RPG talk. Yeah, guild chat is nice, but some of us prefer the forum setup- and some of the stories and campaigns we've had are worth preserving for posterity.

So this is a general discussion thread for anything and everything RPG related. (If nobody else was going to make it, why not me?)

Things to post here:
- Awesome stories from your campaigns
- Rants about terrible games you've had
- Games you want to play
- Chitchat with other guild members
- and so on. Please, no flaming, we're all guildies here. Otherwise do whatever (subject to TOS yadda yadda legalese)

And since just saying "Hey you, post here" is kind of a stupid way to get posts, here's a discussion topic: What's your favorite tabletop game system, and why? What others have you played? What games do you want to play but haven't gotten around to?  

[WhimsicalXellos]

I've played countless different systems. Every one of them has had its ups and downs in terms of mechanics. The ones that bugged me the least? Oddly enough, a couple that I'm brand new to are on the list. Maybe that's because I don't know enough about them to know the downs yet, but hopefully not. I'm referring to Pathfinder and Lord of the 5 Rings (the one Rain Yupa's running). These systems seem really solid to me so far. Pathfinder still has some of the oddities that 3.5 has, but I feel like it's a lot more balanced. 4e did a great job of balancing, but it took out most of the customization that I like about 3.5 and Pathfinder. L5R reminds me of White Wolf, but without the horrible botch rules that always destroy me. I am incapable of not rolling 1s. Just saying. All the d10s in the world don't mean a thing if a quarter of them end up as 1s. :/

The only other system that sticks out in my mind is one we've gone back to a few times, just cuz it seemed pretty balanced and fun, is one I don't think many people have heard of. It's called Ironclaw. It's sort of a furry roleplay system, but once you get past that part if it bugs you, the system is laid out quite nicely. It's sort of similar to Savage Worlds, but there's more meat to it.

Actually, I should take that part about 3.5 back. I've never really liked it as much as the Monte Cook variants of it. Rather than 3.5, I should say I like Arcana Evolved or Iron Heroes. Pathfinder is more like those, anyway. (Considering he was a design consultant...)

As for ones I'd like to play? There aren't many I can think of aside from the ones I almost played. We actually quite often will roll characters, but then the next week just do something else. I have no idea how it happens sometimes, but it does. Some of them seemed interesting, but never got their chance to shine. Couldn't name a one of them, though. Oh well.  

[Maiku the Paladin]

Favorite tabletop would have to be D&D 3.5. Started with 3.0, went to 3.5, then on to Pathfinder when 4.0 came out. Pathfinder is awesome, but my most memorable campaigns and characters all came from the 3.5 rule set. I remember many things that still blow my mind at how fun they were:

Running into the throat of a dragon. Like, DOWN the throat lol.

Building a huge castle town using lucky draws on a Deck of Many Things. (The entire party's, not just my own.)

Becoming an undead and ripping my skin off myself because I wanted to be a cool skeleton and not a dumb ghoul.

Killing an abomination God thing by bull rushing him into a black hole to the Void.

Among other things. Also worthy of note is Warhammer 40k, which I love to play whenever I get the chance. Problem is finding people who have the time and money for it, it's expensive lol.  

[DeathAdams]

Being the devil's advocate, I'm always out to help the DM toy with the party... It's just amazing.  

[Pavilo]

Evangeline Ingram

What's your favorite tabletop game system, and why?

My favorite system was a brilliantly designed homebrew system, it was all percentile based and you could build any type of character. Weapons, armor, and hit locations were done quite well too. I don't have much of the details, but I could share some of the basics that I remember.

Quote:

What games do you want to play but haven't gotten around to?

I wish to play the Legend system, but I haven't had a chance to try. It's available online, created by Rule of Cool, it's completely free.  

[Evangeline Ingram]

Pavilo

Evangeline Ingram

What's your favorite tabletop game system, and why?

My favorite system was a brilliantly designed homebrew system, it was all percentile based and you could build any type of character. Weapons, armor, and hit locations were done quite well too. I don't have much of the details, but I could share some of the basics that I remember.

Quote:

What games do you want to play but haven't gotten around to?

I wish to play the Legend system, but I haven't had a chance to try. It's available online, created by Rule of Cool, it's completely free.

Yaaay Legend high five!

I've actually run a campaign in legend; I'd say that what they really need now is a beastiary. It's really fun but annoying to have to build everything for.

I've actually contributed to the project myself with a homebrewed track, the Runner. It's on its third review pass (and has been so since around... march?) but I'll get back to it eventually. >.>  

[Pavilo]

Evangeline Ingram

Pavilo

Evangeline Ingram

What's your favorite tabletop game system, and why?

My favorite system was a brilliantly designed homebrew system, it was all percentile based and you could build any type of character. Weapons, armor, and hit locations were done quite well too. I don't have much of the details, but I could share some of the basics that I remember.

Quote:

What games do you want to play but haven't gotten around to?

I wish to play the Legend system, but I haven't had a chance to try. It's available online, created by Rule of Cool, it's completely free.

Yaaay Legend high five!

I've actually run a campaign in legend; I'd say that what they really need now is a beastiary. It's really fun but annoying to have to build everything for.

I've actually contributed to the project myself with a homebrewed track, the Runner. It's on its third review pass (and has been so since around... march?) but I'll get back to it eventually. >.>

*high five*

I just like that it really allows you to build just about anything. I hope they take a look at your track and approve it. There are a couple things I would personally change, perhaps a few non-running perks such as stamina boosts of a sort. Not really sure how to translate it into the game, don't have time to look it over before I go to work now.

I'll talk with you a bit more about Legend after work, do you have any characters you could show me?  

[Evangeline Ingram]

Not from that campaign, no; I ran the OSS module and then built out from it.
I reused mooks a lot.
However, I did build a single-session thing from scratch for an event I hosted to promote the game; I'll find those stat sheets sometime I guess.

Please tell me about Runner more, if you go over it in detail it'll count as a review pass for me. (You need six independent passes before you can talk to CORE about getting the track made officially, then they do two, then it gets sent to Chris and the typesetters for publication, theoretically. In practice the dev team's pretty busy razz )  

[Evangeline Ingram]

Callsigncaboose

Being the devil's advocate, I'm always out to help the DM toy with the party... It's just amazing.

Honestly, I love lying to people. It's a guilty pleasure of mine. 3nodding  

[DeathAdams]

I know!  

[Pavilo]

Evangeline Ingram

Not from that campaign, no; I ran the OSS module and then built out from it.
I reused mooks a lot.
However, I did build a single-session thing from scratch for an event I hosted to promote the game; I'll find those stat sheets sometime I guess.

Please tell me about Runner more, if you go over it in detail it'll count as a review pass for me. (You need six independent passes before you can talk to CORE about getting the track made officially, then they do two, then it gets sent to Chris and the typesetters for publication, theoretically. In practice the dev team's pretty busy razz )

Here you go.

1st Circle: Face Movement
A good ability, I appreciate the distinction that it will not stack with the monk ability of the same name.

2nd Circle: Bob and Weave
A fine ability, but it seems almost exactly like the monk's one from the Crane track. The key difference is the athletics bonuses, which I am unsure as to if they are only from you running or permanent bonuses. If permanent bonuses, I really like the flavor and they do what I mentioned before about granting perks outside of battle.

3rd Circle: Shockwave Movement
This seems like a Flash kind of maneuver. I think it's balanced on its own, but with the two extra perks you've got a very powerful circle here. Perhaps move the fall damage into the 4th Circle, as it seems to be really empty for a later circle.

4th Circle: Evasive Maneuvers
This seems outstandingly weak for a 4th Circle, you have to move twice your speed just to get Evasion for that round? Especially considering a Acrobat Adept gains it on a permanent basis on its 2nd Circle. It'd be much better to just grant the Evasion ability, do as I said in the previous one or maybe make this grant the Take 10 on those two skills.

5th Circle: Keep Moving
I'm really not feeling this one, it's nice and has good flavor but there's a bit of something that makes it off. Perhaps a clarification that some things, like cages or being shackled to a wall that prevents the beginning of movement would disallow this ability. Otherwise I see people trying to rule lawyer this in abusive ways.

6th Circle: Disabling Strike
It honestly feels like a rehash of the 3rd Circle, just single targeting. The [Battered] and [Prone] condition effects are a great perk, but there's really no more to it. I'm feeling that an entirely different ability should go here, not sure what you would do though.

7th Circle: Midnight Runner
This seems really tacked on, like, "********, don't know what I should do for the end of it." Kind of deal. I understand that it completes the movement restriction exceptions from the 5th circle, but I think an option here would be to make that one advance as when you reach your 7th Circle (granting full immunity to the previous conditions and the temporary immunity to the new ones) and instead have the 7th be something where you can run over any kind of terrain so long as you keep running. Water, ice, walls, ceilings, anything, so long as you don't stop you will be able to keep running. In which case a rename is in order. This is up to you of course, it was just a thought that came to mind.  

[Evangeline Ingram]

Pavilo

Evangeline Ingram

Not from that campaign, no; I ran the OSS module and then built out from it.
I reused mooks a lot.
However, I did build a single-session thing from scratch for an event I hosted to promote the game; I'll find those stat sheets sometime I guess.

Please tell me about Runner more, if you go over it in detail it'll count as a review pass for me. (You need six independent passes before you can talk to CORE about getting the track made officially, then they do two, then it gets sent to Chris and the typesetters for publication, theoretically. In practice the dev team's pretty busy razz )

Here you go.

1st Circle: Face Movement
A good ability, I appreciate the distinction that it will not stack with the monk ability of the same name.

2nd Circle: Bob and Weave
A fine ability, but it seems almost exactly like the monk's one from the Crane track. The key difference is the athletics bonuses, which I am unsure as to if they are only from you running or permanent bonuses. If permanent bonuses, I really like the flavor and they do what I mentioned before about granting perks outside of battle.

3rd Circle: Shockwave Movement
This seems like a Flash kind of maneuver. I think it's balanced on its own, but with the two extra perks you've got a very powerful circle here. Perhaps move the fall damage into the 4th Circle, as it seems to be really empty for a later circle.

4th Circle: Evasive Maneuvers
This seems outstandingly weak for a 4th Circle, you have to move twice your speed just to get Evasion for that round? Especially considering a Acrobat Adept gains it on a permanent basis on its 2nd Circle. It'd be much better to just grant the Evasion ability, do as I said in the previous one or maybe make this grant the Take 10 on those two skills.

5th Circle: Keep Moving
I'm really not feeling this one, it's nice and has good flavor but there's a bit of something that makes it off. Perhaps a clarification that some things, like cages or being shackled to a wall that prevents the beginning of movement would disallow this ability. Otherwise I see people trying to rule lawyer this in abusive ways.

6th Circle: Disabling Strike
It honestly feels like a rehash of the 3rd Circle, just single targeting. The [Battered] and [Prone] condition effects are a great perk, but there's really no more to it. I'm feeling that an entirely different ability should go here, not sure what you would do though.

7th Circle: Midnight Runner
This seems really tacked on, like, "********, don't know what I should do for the end of it." Kind of deal. I understand that it completes the movement restriction exceptions from the 5th circle, but I think an option here would be to make that one advance as when you reach your 7th Circle (granting full immunity to the previous conditions and the temporary immunity to the new ones) and instead have the 7th be something where you can run over any kind of terrain so long as you keep running. Water, ice, walls, ceilings, anything, so long as you don't stop you will be able to keep running. In which case a rename is in order. This is up to you of course, it was just a thought that came to mind.

The second circle bonuses are permanent, yes.

The "take ten on athletics and acrobatics" has to stay at 3rd because the point is that it's flight without actualy handing out flight. Combined with the bonuses from the second circle, you have the ability at 3rd circle to gain [Flying] every round by taking ten on your acrobatics- so long as you have something to jump from. 3rd Circle is standard for flight abilites.

4th circle: Read the rogue ability. You get evasion once per encounter as a rogue. As a runner, you get evasion once per round. That's the difference that makes it worth the circles. It may still be underpowered, though...

5th circle: If you're shackled to the wall, you get out of the cuffs. If you're in a cage, you slip between the bars. That's the point- to make you impossible to hold via simple restraints.

6th: Hm. The main point of this is to take out individuals that are fast enough to keep up with you by inflicting debilitating conditions on them, but... Eh. I can see your point.

7th: The thing is, 7th circle abilities are all over the place in terms of balance atm. This is more or less the Utter Brute's 7th circle ability to ignore certain conditions.

However, I could always let you walk through walls, teleport, etc instead.. but I'd prefer that to be an option for the sake of those who want to build a more "realistic" runner.  

[Evangeline Ingram]

If I downgraded 6th circle to a move action, would it be too strong?  

[Pavilo]

Evangeline Ingram

Pavilo

Evangeline Ingram

Not from that campaign, no; I ran the OSS module and then built out from it.
I reused mooks a lot.
However, I did build a single-session thing from scratch for an event I hosted to promote the game; I'll find those stat sheets sometime I guess.

Please tell me about Runner more, if you go over it in detail it'll count as a review pass for me. (You need six independent passes before you can talk to CORE about getting the track made officially, then they do two, then it gets sent to Chris and the typesetters for publication, theoretically. In practice the dev team's pretty busy razz )

Here you go.

1st Circle: Face Movement
A good ability, I appreciate the distinction that it will not stack with the monk ability of the same name.

2nd Circle: Bob and Weave
A fine ability, but it seems almost exactly like the monk's one from the Crane track. The key difference is the athletics bonuses, which I am unsure as to if they are only from you running or permanent bonuses. If permanent bonuses, I really like the flavor and they do what I mentioned before about granting perks outside of battle.

3rd Circle: Shockwave Movement
This seems like a Flash kind of maneuver. I think it's balanced on its own, but with the two extra perks you've got a very powerful circle here. Perhaps move the fall damage into the 4th Circle, as it seems to be really empty for a later circle.

4th Circle: Evasive Maneuvers
This seems outstandingly weak for a 4th Circle, you have to move twice your speed just to get Evasion for that round? Especially considering a Acrobat Adept gains it on a permanent basis on its 2nd Circle. It'd be much better to just grant the Evasion ability, do as I said in the previous one or maybe make this grant the Take 10 on those two skills.

5th Circle: Keep Moving
I'm really not feeling this one, it's nice and has good flavor but there's a bit of something that makes it off. Perhaps a clarification that some things, like cages or being shackled to a wall that prevents the beginning of movement would disallow this ability. Otherwise I see people trying to rule lawyer this in abusive ways.

6th Circle: Disabling Strike
It honestly feels like a rehash of the 3rd Circle, just single targeting. The [Battered] and [Prone] condition effects are a great perk, but there's really no more to it. I'm feeling that an entirely different ability should go here, not sure what you would do though.

7th Circle: Midnight Runner
This seems really tacked on, like, "********, don't know what I should do for the end of it." Kind of deal. I understand that it completes the movement restriction exceptions from the 5th circle, but I think an option here would be to make that one advance as when you reach your 7th Circle (granting full immunity to the previous conditions and the temporary immunity to the new ones) and instead have the 7th be something where you can run over any kind of terrain so long as you keep running. Water, ice, walls, ceilings, anything, so long as you don't stop you will be able to keep running. In which case a rename is in order. This is up to you of course, it was just a thought that came to mind.

The second circle bonuses are permanent, yes.

The "take ten on athletics and acrobatics" has to stay at 3rd because the point is that it's flight without actualy handing out flight. Combined with the bonuses from the second circle, you have the ability at 3rd circle to gain [Flying] every round by taking ten on your acrobatics- so long as you have something to jump from. 3rd Circle is standard for flight abilites.

4th circle: Read the rogue ability. You get evasion once per encounter as a rogue. As a runner, you get evasion once per round. That's the difference that makes it worth the circles. It may still be underpowered, though...

5th circle: If you're shackled to the wall, you get out of the cuffs. If you're in a cage, you slip between the bars. That's the point- to make you impossible to hold via simple restraints.

6th: Hm. The main point of this is to take out individuals that are fast enough to keep up with you by inflicting debilitating conditions on them, but... Eh. I can see your point.

7th: The thing is, 7th circle abilities are all over the place in terms of balance atm. This is more or less the Utter Brute's 7th circle ability to ignore certain conditions.

However, I could always let you walk through walls, teleport, etc instead.. but I'd prefer that to be an option for the sake of those who want to build a more "realistic" runner.

Fair enough, just a few disagreements about style it sounds like. I did fail to notice that the rogue one was an encounter thing, so the balance does work out there. I wasn't particularly advocating for teleportation or moving through walls, just that you can travel over any surface in the style that the Flash can run over those surfaces thanks to his speed force. Which indicates a stylistic difference. Nothing wrong with that in the least.  

[Pavilo]

Evangeline Ingram

If I downgraded 6th circle to a move action, would it be too strong?

I'd have to go with yes, there's just so many bonuses to the action. My problem is that I'm not particularly familiar in building high-mobility characters.

Using 3rd edition resources I have made dozens of characters (I get bored and have the books for that one), and only one character was built around the idea of insane movement without using monk.

Spell-less Ranger 6/ Barbarian 1/ Scout 3/ Wild Runner 10

Getting Fast Movement four times, stacking up to +40 movement speed so long as they're in light armor. Not too bad, but my favored (and better) builds all revolve around hitting hard and taking hits.