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 Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:09 am
Okay, I want your guy's opinion on this topic because some of my Christian friends think that God would let you have a free choice and stuff. I honestly don't think it should be like this. They also say that they support same-sex love but not same-sex marriage. Feedback?
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:57 am
They should not consider themselves Christians if they will not commit their hearts to obey the Father's will. How the Father defines "marriage" is how they should define marriage; what the Father says about homosexuality should be their opinion too. Adam and Eve had no ceremony, no rings, no government benefits, no tuxedo or wedding dress; the marriage was the physical joining of the two. That's why there is no such thing as "sex before marriage" - sex is the marriage; Quote: Genesis 2:24 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. ...that's also why people assumed you were a virgin if you had no husband/wife (and people still assume this in some parts of the world). With that definition, "same sex marriage" is an oxymoron because marriage is the physical union between a man and woman, anything else is not marriage. The fact that he gives us "free choice" to obey or disobey isn't really relevant to whether or not our action is "right" or if it is one that he approves of. Those who do not want to obey him have been told the consequences of having such an attitude (the attitude that we can continue living like the unsaved/ pagans, not having him as the authority to tell us how to live our lives). The unrepentant will be thrown into the lake of fire come judgment day. Their lifestyles reflect their choice: you can tell who they worship by the way they live. Most of the world worships humankind, man's carnal passions and desires, not YHWH and his Will/his desires for us as his children. They reject his knowledge and they reject him as their Father. Quote: Revelation 21:8 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars —they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” People might call that "cruel", I see it as a Father respecting his grown child's decision. If they want to cease existing, that's their choice. If they want to reject the information that warns them of what is to come, that's their choice. If they want to forsake their Father for the fleeting passions/desires of this temporary existence, that is their choice. If they want to reject the grace that will enable and move them to obey, that's their choice. Love isn't sexual in nature. "Same-sex" love is expressed between a mother and daughter, a father and son, etc... Love can be expressed to all. Quote: 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. "Love" is how we should interact with everyone. Love is also sacrificing, denying yourself, to improve the life of another, or to save a life even (like Yeshua did for us). Quote: Ephesians 5:2 2 and walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
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iamlost4ever Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:57 pm
You either believe that the Bible is the holy word of God or not. You do not get to pick and choose what fits your life and your decisions and say you love God. Remember that He will not have you lukewarm. You are either hot or cold but if you are lukewarm. Revelation 3:15-16 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
They know it is wrong in God's eyes then they are either a child of God or not.
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:17 am
I do not support same-sex anything but I believe god loves us all. I think people should leave these people alone and let them live the way they are. You have to think some have gone that direction because they were raped or taught to be that way. If they choose to stray away from it and become Christian that is what they want. As long as they do not hit on me I will not bother anyone like that or be scared of them like some of my friends. If you protest against this it is you faith. I think you are being discriminatory against them if you push at them and try to take their rights away like some do. I know it is wrong but I am not that way so I won't mess with them.
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:41 pm
This is an issue for me, and has been for a little while now. With where I'm at, presently, this is what I believe. (I'll only quote from the New Testament, just to dispel any arguments about what law stands and what doesn't) I think that a man and a man, or a woman and a woman and be in a loving, committed, and even romantic relationship with one another, because there's nothing expressly in the Bible that forbids that. The only places I've found that do are in the Purity Codes in Leviticus, which is law designed for the Israelites that we as Christians are not under... Galatians 3:23-25 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian ...and in letters written by Paul that either address something in context (such as Romans 1:26-27) or contain a debated translation (such as 1 Corinthians: 6:9-10). So as for two people of the same sex being in a relationship with one another, I don't see a problem. However, they cannot have sex (of any sort) because they cannot marry. The Bible does expressly define what marriage is--as a union between one man and one woman. 1 Corinthians 7:2 But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.There really isn't anything to interpret about that one. Pretty plain and simple, as it is. Like I said, this is where I'm at right now, with the thinking I've been doing. I'm still studying and pondering, as it is.
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Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:42 pm
Spazriffic Saya This is an issue for me, and has been for a little while now. With where I'm at, presently, this is what I believe. (I'll only quote from the New Testament, just to dispel any arguments about what law stands and what doesn't) I think that a man and a man, or a woman and a woman and be in a loving, committed, and even romantic relationship with one another, because there's nothing expressly in the Bible that forbids that. The only places I've found that do are in the Purity Codes in Leviticus, which is law designed for the Israelites that we as Christians are not under... Galatians 3:23-25 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian ...and in letters written by Paul that either address something in context (such as Romans 1:26-27) or contain a debated translation (such as 1 Corinthians: 6:9-10). So as for two people of the same sex being in a relationship with one another, I don't see a problem. However, they cannot have sex (of any sort) because they cannot marry. The Bible does expressly define what marriage is--as a union between one man and one woman. 1 Corinthians 7:2 But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.There really isn't anything to interpret about that one. Pretty plain and simple, as it is. Like I said, this is where I'm at right now, with the thinking I've been doing. I'm still studying and pondering, as it is. Mark 10:5 “It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,” Jesus replied. 6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’[a] 7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, 8 and the two will become one flesh.’[c] So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
Romans 1: 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
1Timothy 1:9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine
Jude 1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
These clearly state that same sex is not approved by God. God calls it shameful lusts and sexual immorality.
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iamlost4ever Vice Captain
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:08 pm
iamlost4ever Mark 10:5 “It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,” Jesus replied. 6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’[a] 7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, 8 and the two will become one flesh.’[c] So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
Romans 1: 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
1Timothy 1:9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine
Jude 1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
These clearly state that same sex is not approved by God. God calls it shameful lusts and sexual immorality.I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or not. It seems like you are, as you pretty much reiterated what I said by expanding on a few verses. But I'll address these in detail just in case you weren't agreeing with me, so you can understand my position. Indeed, Jesus said that when a man and a woman are married, they should not divorce. Indeed, only a man and a woman can be married. In the Romans verse you quoted, Paul was specifically speaking about pagan sexual rituals. Hence why he says "sexual impurity" and "natural sexual relations." He's talking about sex. And sex between two men, or sex between two women, is wrong, as I stated. He isn't saying that they bonded emotionally in any way with one another, simply that they lusted for and had sex with one another. The 1 Timothy verse suffers from a translation problem. The Greek word that has been translated to "those practicing homosexuality" in the translation you used is "arsenokoitai." Homosexuality didn't exist as an English word until the 1870s, and before then it still wasn't clear what "arsenokoitai" meant. It's a combination of "man" and "bed," which is slightly unclear. I find it a stretch for that word to mean "men who experience and attraction or emotional connection to other men." I don't find it a stretch for that word to mean "men who have sex with other men," even though there was a Greek word meaning exactly that that Paul chose not to use, and despite KJV translating it as "those that defile themselves with mankind." At Sodom and Gomorrah, the townspeople demanded that they be allowed to rape the male visitors. Hardly an example of a strictly emotional relationship. So same sex sex is certainly not approved. Neither is same sex marriage. I think that might have been what you were getting at.
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:41 pm
I can defend both sides!
In defense of christians, marriage is between a man and a women. It's like a math problem.
M+W= MW so simply M+W=marriage.
When we change the formula, the answer changes right?
W+W+M= Polygamy. It's not marriage anymore, now it's polygamy.
M+M=2M Man and man equal what? it isn't MW, right? So it can be marriage?
what about W+W?
Or M+D (dog!) it isn't marriage.
But, in gay peoples defense, time has changed, the bible has been re-written so many times and translated into so many different languages. But christians follow jesus and jesus says never to judge. I believe God has better things to worry about then Gays making love or getting married. He should be more concerned with the straight women who get themselves pregnant then abort their babies.
So, as a God loving christian who follows jesus everyday. I approve of gay love. Jesus says don't judge, ever. And I never shall.
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iamlost4ever Vice Captain
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:58 pm
I don't agree with homosexual love. I think you can twist the word to suite yourself but in your heart you know you are simply making excuses. It doesn't matter how long ago the Word was written. The Bible says there is nothing new under the sun. Homosexuals existed then and now. Check this site out: Exodus International
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Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:17 pm
Matthew 19:1-8 — Did Jesus say anything about homosexuality? Of course, when asked about marriage, Jesus issued a sweeping condemnation of all sexual relationships outside of the male/female model established in Gen 1:27, which he specifically cited.
Here are your answers:
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination." (Leviticus 20:13).
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. Nor shall you mate with any animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it. It is perversion. ‘Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I am casting out before you." (Leviticus 18:22-24).
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Le Pale to the Chief Captain
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