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 Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:12 pm
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THIS PLACE IS A MESS!
and trust me, I know a mess when I see one -- I make enough of them myself. wow, you guys are good! made me feel better about my own guild.
but enough criticism, what I realy want is to accomplish something about it.
why is every campaign it's own subforum? why not tidy up a bit, clean the guild up? I can't find what I'm looking for at all, and I'm beginning to suspect it's leastways as much to do with it not even existing as it is the fact that this guild is a ******** MAZE!!
realy, subforums are supposed to make it EASIER to find things, to organize a guild... you only need enough to categorize with. I was looking for a place to have discussions, offer advice or get some myself; a place to ask questions and get answers; that sort of thing.
instead I find a million different campaigns all without having to click a link once. and what am I gonna find inside each of those subforums? two or three threads each? or what, are you gonna have a thread for each character, each player, each flipping bleep on the map of your world?
and what kinda system is that, anyway? you'd all get lost looking for the main RP, and as players take turns the story'd get all mucked up with time discrepancies like nobody's business....
again, rude, I realize, but it has to be said.
where are all the other possible features of a guild, especially one dedicated completely to a specific hobby? where are the hangouts? the discussions? the workshops? the conspirators? the art galleries? and where's the bleeding advice page?
realy guys, get on it! emotion_eyebrow
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:10 am
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"Instead I find a million different campaigns without having to click a link once... "
Uh... Yeah.
That's the idea. You can see all the games running in the guild at a glance. Hey, look, a subforum for a nWOD game! *Click, see if recruiting*
That Pathfinder game might be interesting *Click, Read*
There is no "Main RP," that much should have been obvious if you'd... you know, actually looked around like you claimed you did. If you had, you'd have seen that each game is an entirely different campaign that is entirely unrelated to each other. There is no time or continuity issues. This isn't an RP guild set up for a single solitary RP, it's a tabletop guild setup for multiple campaigns to be run at once and the sole purpose is... running and playing campaigns. The discussion you want takes place in the main forum page of the guild, as that is what it is there for. If you want a discussion about x? Stop waiting for someone else to start one. Start it. You want an art gallery? Start one.
Each game has its' own subforum so that DMs can create and use as many threads as they want without having to worry about making too many. if they want one for each player? By all means (if you'd taken a look around, you'd seen that at least one game DOES do that).
How messy would it be if EVERY Pathfinder game had ALL the threads jammed into a single solitary subforum? It'd be impossible to find the ones that were actually running, it'd be difficult to find the threads for your games.
You could argue "bookmark them," but bookmarking one subforum is easier than bookmarking 2, or more, threads. In a guild that is about the games more than anything, convienance = good thing.
Perhaps you actually offer suggestions instead of just jumping in here and critizing everything? You offered no suggestions. Just "Where's this?" "Where's that?" "Why is it like this?" "I can't find this!" Those are not suggestions.
Also, there is a Q&A sticky. You didn't look very hard for that either, I guess...
Normally, I'd go through my post and take the time to make things sound more polite and less rude but seeing as how you didn't bother... I see no reason why I should even though it doesn't take very much time or effort to do.
I suggest if you actually want to 'help' you might want to be far less rude, and actually suggest something. I have no issue with deleting this thread if you wish to insist and continue with this topic in this manner.
Could the guild use some touching up? Yeah, probably. Another way to do things? Probably. But being rude is not the way to make friends here, nor is an inflammitory post a good way to "suggest" anything.
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Captain Ragnar Devonin Crew
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:07 am
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Yeah, because having 34 separate games on the main thread, all of which with multiple chapters, OoC threads, roll threads... that would be much less messy wouldn't it? rolleyes
Since this is a role play guild let me do a little role play for you...
Quote: *DM mentions clue to an ancient relic* Oh that's been mentioned before last chapter! I'll just go into the sub forum and look at... Oh crap, Chieftain Twilight fixed it for us so the guild's less "messy". Now I'll have to scroll through literally over a hundred threads to get to the one I want. You know what I'm just going to assume this clue isn't important... *Game derails*
You could cut those down by having OoC, Roll thread AND main story all in one game, but you're actually saying that's less messy? I despise games like that because it takes away from the story.
Now say you want to talk about your art galleries and what not. You're going to have to go through all these game threads just to find it. 90% of the time it'll go unseen and ignored.
As Reeve said, did you even look around the guild? You complain about lack of hangouts, but there are loads. The OoC thread in each game acts as a hangout thread. But the beautiful of them is it's only for the people in the game, meaning it feels like you're at the table much more than if there was just 1 hangout thread.
Also, there IS a sticky where you can ask/answer questions, or just write a post in the main thread and people would be more than happy to help. The response to this post isn't a great example, but the people on this guild are generally really polite and helpful. We're just RPing adventurers, so we're used to hunting trolls. ninja
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:50 am
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I actually agree with how Captain responded to you. Do you realize how incredibly rude it is to join a guild and immediately start saying everything's wrong with it, when you obviously haven't even done your research?
Because this is actually one of the best setups I've seen. DnD campaigns are involved, especially when you have to do them in play-by-post format. The subforums are there to keep each campaign separate, because they are separate. They have absolutely nothing to do with one another. You could get rid of all the subforums except one (let's say the top one, Thunderspire Labyrinth, for example), and that wouldn't have an impact on thunderspire at all. It means we can reorganize and change subforums however we wish. When a campaign goes dead, we rename the subforum for whatever new game needs a space.
The main forum (where you posted this) is where we keep our non-campaign related discussion, although you'll only mostly find recruitment threads. The reason you're not seeing a lot of that "extra" stuff you described isn't because we don't have a place for it, it's because we don't really have that many non-campaign discussions.
If you'd bother to look down a little on the page, you'd see we have some of those other topics. I myself posted a link to a dnd character quiz a few days ago. It's right there, "What would you be in DnD?".
Also, I'm not sure you could call this guild dedicated to a "hobby". I mean, yes, we all obviously play dnd, but we're not here to discuss playing it, we're here to play it.
Do you even know anything about DnD? No, seriously, above all, even if you ignore everything else I've said, I would like to know how much experience you have with tabletop rpgs. Because I'm reasonably sure if you did, you would understand the setup we have.
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:22 am
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:38 am
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Now, that's not entirely fair, gooseh. He hasn't actually responded to our posts yet, so we don't know if he's going to keep insisting this is weird, or if he just actually didn't know how DnD works and will be like "oh, hey, wow, didn't realize, sorry"
Of course, given the tone of the first one, I don't have my hopes up, but I'm still an optimistic person.
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:42 am
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KytanaTheThief Now, that's not entirely fair, gooseh. He hasn't actually responded to our posts yet, so we don't know if he's going to keep insisting this is weird, or if he just actually didn't know how DnD works and will be like "oh, hey, wow, didn't realize, sorry" Of course, given the tone of the first one, I don't have my hopes up, but I'm still an optimistic person.
>Implying I'm ever fair. |
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:49 am
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:55 pm
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:20 pm
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:41 pm
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:23 am
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well, I'm going to address a few issues in order.
1.) I've participated in and operated NUMEROUS guilds which function with the few neatly organized subforums I've mentioned, and it works WONDERS compare to this. it's actually VERY simple to follow. especially since many games become redunandt or simply die off, and it's far easier to let them be lost to the backpages or be deleted than to have a whole dead subforum waiting their (or deleted, wasting 2k gold). realy, it works, it's marvelous, and it is tody and neat. you'll find everything way faster.
2.) I've actually been a member of this guild for at least a year or two, possibly longer. I've been a little inactive since the last time I was here there was litterally NOTHING of interest, and I thought I'd pop in and see if I could get some thoughts on some ideas of mine, and maybe probe peoples' brains for other ideas... and I couldn't find my way in this mess.
3.) the world isn't fair, and I don't care if he is or isn't. ^_^ after all, I didn't pull any punches. go right ahead, sir.
4.) joe, I've been Dungeon Mastering for 12 and a half years now, and playing for 14 and a half years. I've also entered into dozens of other tabletop games, RPGs, LARPs, the SCA, MTG, Pokemon, Munchkins, World of Darkness and other White Wolf games, D20 Modern, Dragonstar, you name it. I'm familar with 1st edition, 2nd edition, AD&D 2nd edition Advanced, 3rd edition, 3.5 edition, Pathfinder, 4th edition and am awaiting 5th edition. I can create a ready-to-play 30th level character of damn near every class in the core books and a shelf-full of supplements and campaign settings in under half an hour by sheer memory alone complete with backstory, personality, age, hight/weight, appearance, followers and cohorts, family members and custom items. I know this game, it's my lifestyle.
5.) if it isn't a member's place to point out that something is a complete mess, than who's is it? management itself, the people who designed it that way? your the boss, you don't HAVE to listen to me. but I see no reason to sugar coat it. confused I would feel even more insulted if someone gave me the "no offense, wouldn't change a thing, but..." argument. I'm blunt about it. and you don't have to like it. kick me out if you please, my suggesstion clearly has no backup.
but might I add, I actually AM surprised you folks even noticed this here. maybe this system realy DOES work for you... I still can't understand it for the life of me.
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:38 am
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Money isn't a problem for this guild and sub forums are cleansed if the RP becomes inactive. There is no waste.
Don't care about statement two.
Thou art in the wrong kingdom knave.
Don't care about statement four.
It's not that you didn't sugar coat it, it was because you were rude about it. We're open to suggestions but you were blatantly rude about the way you went about it. We don't mind bluntness.
It works like this: Someone posts an interest check thread in main they get players, players make characters. With enough players Rain gives the GM running the game a subforum and in that sub forum is the main staples of any play by post pnprpg (The actual campaign, out of character and a thread to store characters in so they can be viewed with ease).
What you're suggesting is to create a subforum for a game x edition then all games, all out of characters and all character sheet threads to be in this subforum. To me that seems completely backwards! Sure it sorts them into games and editions but then you get subforums with one game in it anyway (if it is an unpopular or unheard of system) or get a cluster ******** in the 3.5e and 4e subforums since the majority of games are those. That's pretty much all I have to say on that.
To regard a previous "suggestion" you made "dedicated completely to a specific hobby" I don't think enough of us play warhammer, warmachine, flames of war etc. to actually dedicate a subforum to it and any discussion we could have about it would probably be just about new stuff coming out.
"Hangouts" We call it the main forum. We find something guild related, decide to share it with the rest of the guild by posting a thread in main about it. Then the discussion lasts as long as interest holds then it dies into the backpages.
"Discussions" See above main is for that.
"Workshops" Any of us whom are working on something keep it to ourselves and a thread sometimes comes up to ask for some help on homebrew. Once again it doesn't happen enough to warrant its own sub forum.
"The Conspirators" Okay, that's a pile of s**t. Why do we need tin foil hats around here for? Even then they can go find a dedicated place for that kind of stuff whom they can share interest with similar tin foil covered people. What you are suggesting is we should cater for any interest. It's nearly as bad as when people try to force ponies into everything.(You know who you are. Stop it.)
"Art galleries" We don't have many artists and the ones we do have little to no intention of creating art purely for the sole purpose of displaying it as such. Some people draw their own character portraits (ranging from horrific to pretty good) but that's as far as it goes. Isolated cases unrelated to each other does not warrant a sub forum.
"Bleeding advice page" Well I don't know why you would want one to bleed but if that's what you're in to... On a serious note that is also what main is for people ask for help and the thread can be seen by all. An advice sub forum would lessen the effect of spontaneous advice from someone who is just skimming main. If there was a sub forum for it people would have to make an active decision to go into it and help people. "Hmmmm, I know what I want to do right now! Time to go help people." As much as I am a believer of good the in all of man kind (he lied, you're all wankers) I see making it a more active decision to help people to be detrimental. It'd be the same as if you were shopping the saw an old lady drop her shopping on the floor. Now if you're a good natured person you would rush over to help her, tell her to have a nice day and be on your merry way to carry on shopping (or murdering). What instead you would have is people leaving the house to purposefully go help old ladies who have dropped their shopping which is a waste of time since something might not even happen and you wasted an afternoon.
So next time you want to make a suggestion I suggest you ******** off and think about it a bit longer than the five seconds you have seem to spent.
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