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 Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:41 pm
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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:01 am
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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:32 am
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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:52 am
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:31 pm
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Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:18 pm
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Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:12 pm
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:20 pm
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Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:23 am
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I took these few articles from http://site.themarriagebed.com/front-page
this site which covers every sexual question you could have almost as a Christian. I personally think these are some of the best thoughts I have seen on it.
WHY DIDN'T GOD CALL MASTURBATION SIN?
Paul H. Byerly
We have heard a lot of explanations of why masturbation is sin, but we have yet to have anyone give us a good explanation for why the Bible does not say it is. Is there any other sexual sin which is not directly and clearly identified as sin in the Bible? There are passages which clearly label as sin such things as fornication, adultery, lust, incest, rape, homosexuality, and even bestiality. Surely the urge to masturbate is more common than most of these, and much stronger than many of them, and yet the Bible says nothing about it. If God felt it necessary to tell us not to have sex with animals, why didn't He also find it necessary to tell us not to masturbate?
I can only come up with three reasons why "thou shalt not masturbate" is not found in the Bible:
It's an oversight.
One must have special knowledge or be spiritual to know this truth.
Masturbation is not an inherently sinful act.
Number one makes the Bible incomplete, while number two is the heresy of Gnosticism. By process of elimination I am left to conclude that number three must be true.
I know some will say, "it does not matter why God didn't say it," or "who are you to question God?" But it does matter; if you want to add to what God has called sin you must first give a good reason why God did not say it Himself. Since there is no doubt that masturbation was known of and practiced by those who originally read and heard the words of the scripture, the Bible's silence on the issue is extremely difficult to explain if you are convinced masturbation is sin.
Most of the arguments we see against masturbation seem to work because the person making them starts with the belief that masturbation is wrong. If someone starts with the question "is it sin" and studies the scripture to find the truth rather than to support what they have already decide the truth should be, the results are different. It is our prayer that asking "why didn't God say masturbation is sin" will help people to reexamine the issue and find a Biblically sound answer.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MASTURBATION Q AND A
This began as answers to a number of arguments against masturbation that were submitted anonymously by one person. We have since added to and altered the article. Anything in black is from Paul and/or Lori, while things in blue are from others.
Please note that this discussion is about masturbation in general, and about whether or not it is inherently sinful. For the most part we are thinking of a single person, not a married person. Certainly there are scriptures that apply to a married person that do not affect an unmarried one in this matter.
Let us start by saying that in the past we would have been quick to agree masturbation was wrong. We believed that ALL masturbation was sin, and we could string together Bible verses to "prove" that. However, as we continued to study, it became more and more clear to us that the Bible did not really address the issue. When we applied to masturbation the same standards of interpretation we used for everything else, we could find no Biblical prohibition.
And, since we are married and very happy sexually, this is pretty much an academic argument for us; being convinced masturbation is wrong would not affect our lives. On the other hand, there are many for whom this issue is far from academic, and we pray that we can help such people become convinced in their own minds. Certainly masturbation is wrong for anyone who feels it's sin, in accordance with Romans 14:23b "for whatever is not from faith is sin." The question we need to deal with is whether or not masturbation is, in and of itself, inherently sinful.
I think the Word talks about this subject several times, just not directly.
My question then would be "Why would God not be very clear about it?” We have a very hard time with the idea that knowing what is right and wrong requires great discernment or the ability to dig deeply into the scriptures. For more on this see Why didn't God call masturbation sin?
When the Bible says, "if a man cannot control himself he should marry" I don't believe this is only talking about sexual immorality with another person, because a another scripture says, "exercise self control" I read that to say control YOURSELF.
The apostle Paul makes it clear that there are those who cannot continue to control themselves, and thus should marry. He says this not only to the young, but also to all widows under the age of 60! In 1 Timothy 5:11 Paul indicates that these women will "feel sensual desires" and will "want to get married." We would agree that there is more to marriage than just avoiding sexual sin, and that the gift of celibacy must be much more than just the ability to say no to sex. This does not change the fact that Paul made it very clear that many do not have the ability to go a life time without sex.
When people do masturbate and then "feel guilty", is it really guilty or conviction? When we sin against "the temple of the Holy Spirit" we always feel a sense of shame, that is because we just did something against our body that the Lord himself occupies.
An excellent point: is it conviction, from the Holy Spirit, or condemnation from man or Satan? We know single men who feel convicted the moment they look too long or too closely at a woman, but feel no guilt when they masturbate. If their conscience was seared, would they be so easily convicted about lust? On the other hand we know married men and women who feel great guilt when they have sex with their own spouse. Clearly sexual guilt can be inappropriate and not of God.
Is masturbation denying our flesh, or "gratifying our flesh"?
When we eat dessert, do we deny the flesh? Does air conditioning or hot water for showers deny the flesh? "Denying the flesh" does not mean we should avoid anything which feels good, it means we should avoid fleshly sins. If masturbation were listed as a sin, then it would be included in denying the flesh, but since it's not called a sin, it's not included.
Masturbating leads to other sexual sins, self control over masturbation helps us avoid other sexual sins.
The idea that avoiding masturbation will somehow make a person less likely to commit other sexual sins is not biblically supported, and we think such an idea comes from what Paul calls "self-imposed religion" in Colossians:
"Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations-- "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,"...These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh."(Colossians 2:20, 21 & 23)
Paul says that "neglect of the body" seems wise to man's mind, but it is "of no value” in dealing with the flesh. We have heard some say that the single who does not masturbate is training him or herself to also deny the temptation to have premarital sex; this sounds good, but in practice it does not seem to work. On the contrary, those who "deny" themselves masturbation seem to be more prone to sexual sin with a boy or girlfriend. Some who have "tried it both ways" have said that masturbation makes it much easier for them to remain sexually pure on a date.
Marriage is reserved for MAN AND WOMAN together to become one. Sex is made for marriage alone, masturbation is a sexual act...
That would depend on how you define a sex act. Sex with one's spouse is physical, emotional, relational, spiritual, and possibly procreational. Masturbation is only physical. In seems to us that comparing masturbation to sex is like comparing an IV to a gourmet meal. Masturbation does temporarily remove our "sexual hunger," but it does nothing for the hunger we have for intimacy with another person.
Masturbation increases our sex drive.
Actually is does not. When a man has sex with a woman it satisfies his sexual hunger, but raises his testosterone levels long term, which can result in an increased sex drive. However, when a man masturbates he only satisfies his hunger, his testosterone levels are not raised. We see this as evidence that a loving God designed masturbation as a "stop gap" measure for those who do not have a spouse.
Masturbating shows no sign of self control, or denying yourself to honor the Lord. As with fasting, not masturbating is denying your flesh and depending on the Lord.
This assumes that the Lord intends us to not masturbate, something He has not told us. 1 Corinthians 10:13 reads:
No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.
Is masturbation a temptation to be avoided, or is it actually the means of escape from sexual sin, provided by God for singles, and for married folks who are refused sex? If it's a temptation to be avoided, what is the way of escape that has been provided? Among those who feel it's a sin, the "failure rate" at avoiding masturbation is very, very high. I know of no other sin which has such a high failure rate, so where is God's way of escape? And if masturbation is a sin which is almost impossible to avoid, why is the Bible silent on it?
What is truly frightening is the people who feel so guilty (condemned, not convicted) at their failure to stop masturbating that they stop going to church, and fall away from the Lord. People say "I prayed for help, and He didn't help me." Perhaps the problem is that they are praying for Him to take away something He intended them to use to avoid sin? Maybe it's Satan who is whispering in single people's ears about masturbation being sin? Those who fail to stop feel condemned, and those who do stop are more easily tempted to fornicate; Satan wins either way.
I don't understand why you say masturbation is not a sin, but pornography is a sin. The arousal to masturbate and the masturbation itself are the result of fantasies.
This is not entirely correct. While fantasies and sexual images can cause or increase arousal, God created us with a sex drive which needs no physical, mental or visual stimulation to affect us. In men there is a need for release of built up semen every 24 to 72 hours, and a period of time without sex causes a growing desire for sex. In women sex drive varies greatly with her hormonal cycle, and as she nears ovulation she will experience a strong desire regardless of her thoughts and actions.
I think masturbation is ok if done in moderation… The sin starts when done in excess. Excess being it is interfering in your daily life by utilizing a lot of your time. That could be said about a lot things, such as TV, Internet, exercise, shopping, etc.
We agree with you on this. Of course defining "excessive" can be tricky. There is a lot of evidence that most teenage boys and 20 to 30 year old men will have an orgasm every other day if they can. This fits well with the time needed for the body to produce enough semen to feel a need for release. It seems likely that every other day is a sort of minimal need for the body and maybe for the mind in most men. For women the issue of how often is too much is a lot less clear because their bodies do not have a built in need for release.
Jesus said it was adultery to fantasize about having sex with a woman. So masturbation is sin because it is done while fantasizing.
The issue of fantasy is certainly part of the masturbation question. Fantasy about sex with someone you are not married to is sin with or without masturbation. It is possible to masturbate without any fantasy, which solves the problem.
It is impossible for someone to masturbate and not fantasize. Anyone who says they can do this is lying!!
We have heard this a number of times, but no one can tell us how they know it's true. There are reports of very young children self discovering masturbation (to orgasm) when they had no idea what sex was. These children obviously masturbated without sexual fantasies. If someone tells me they can do this, who am I to call them a liar? Isn't it easier to control one's thoughts for the time it takes to masturbate than to do it all day with the push of an unreleased sex drive?
I do not think masturbation will prevent premarital sex. Premarital sex has to do with the opportunity and temptation to have sex, masturbating or not. But it is kind of a safety switch for those who really want to follow Jesus' teachings.
Exactly. It certainly is not going to prevent anyone who is not morally inclined to follow God's Word. On the other hand, we have heard reports from individuals who wanted to avoid fornication who are convinced that masturbation helps remove some of the temptation. It's like going to the grocery store on an empty stomach vs. having just eaten.
Jesus remained pure throughout his natural life with the help of the Holy Spirit, and I just can't picture Him masturbating.
This "argument" is common, but what does it prove? Can you picture Jesus performing basic bodily functions that we know He must have? This always seems like a Red Herring to us.
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:19 am
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:32 pm
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"Most" Christian groups (Churches and so forth) agree that masturbation is a Sin. Below are several verse used to show such to those who ask about it.
Questions about what the Bible has to say about masturbation was actually one of our most frequently asked questions in Seminary. Many Christians find it difficult to answer the question because the Bible never mentions masturbation specifically. To really understand how God feels about this subject, we must examine other verses that deal with issues such as lust, self-control and purity.
It's interesting to know the older definition of masturbation was “self-abuse.” Although more modern dictionaries may no longer carry this definition, they are still linked together under self-abuse.
1 Corinthians 6:18 NIV further confirms this, saying that unlawful sexual relations defile our own bodies: “Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.”
Sexual urges in and of themselves are not wicked. They are natural...but then several agree sin itself is natural also.
Galatians 5:16 ESV
But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
James 1:14-15 ESV
But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.
1 Thessalonians 4:3-5 ESV
For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God;
1 Peter 2:11 ESV
Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul.
Matthew 5:28 ESV
But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
2 Timothy 2:22 ESV
So flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.
Romans 13:14 ESV
But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.
Deuteronomy 23:9-11 ESV
“When you are encamped against your enemies, then you shall keep yourself from every evil thing. “If any man among you becomes unclean because of a nocturnal emission, then he shall go outside the camp. He shall not come inside the camp, but when evening comes, he shall bathe himself in water, and as the sun sets, he may come inside the camp.
1 Timothy 2:15 ESV
Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.
Romans 6:12-14 ESV
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:41 pm
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*Long breath in*
Father Delacroix Galatians 5:16 ESV But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
Obviously that was sarcasm, but my point is this: He's not talking about all pleasures, he's talking about sin. He doesn't specify masturbation as a sin, either, or really even hint at it.
Quote: James 1:14-15 ESV But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.
Quote: 1 Thessalonians 4:3-5 ESV For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God;
1: Adultery
2: Fornication
3: Both
There's no real internal reason to assume masturbation so far, as it's never mentioned, while the other two are innumerable times.
Quote: 1 Peter 2:11 ESV Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul.
Quote: Matthew 5:28 ESV But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
1: That you have to lust after someone to masturbate (not true)
2: That it was even feasible to masturbate looking at someone at an age before photography. Totally out of context.
Quote: 2 Timothy 2:22 ESV So flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.
Quote: Romans 13:14 ESV But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.
Quote: Deuteronomy 23:9-11 ESV “When you are encamped against your enemies, then you shall keep yourself from every evil thing. “If any man among you becomes unclean because of a nocturnal emission, then he shall go outside the camp. He shall not come inside the camp, but when evening comes, he shall bathe himself in water, and as the sun sets, he may come inside the camp.
1: We aren't Jewish (I'm assuming...)
2: Even if it did apply to us, the same rules apply directly to a woman on her period.
3: Nocturnal emissions =/= masturbation. It's completely involuntary to begin with.
Quote: 1 Timothy 2:15 ESV Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.
Quote: Romans 6:12-14 ESV Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
So, did we learn anything kids? Circular reasoning doesn't work. Intro semantics.
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:50 pm
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:04 pm
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Rednal Christians are very good at grabbing verses out-of-context in order to support a particular point. It's actually kind of interesting to see how all of that works, and in fairness, some of them are sufficiently complete enough as ideas and context to be able to work that way. BUT. As False Dichotomy has given evidence towards, it's clearly possible to have different interpretations of a particular passage... so I think that when people really want to make a statement using the Bible, it should be done with extremely solid reasoning and evidence in much the way a thesis or other scientific idea is proposed. Your idea wins when you deliberately try to beat it and fail. ^^
I first did a bible.cc search for a phrase I kept hearing, "Better your seed fall in the belly of a whore than on the ground." Turns out it's not in the bible. I googled it and found the the verse it originates from, Genesis 38: 7-10.
Now, having read all the way from Genesis - Judges rather recently since then, I freshly remembered this story. Onan was supposed to, by law, impregnate his dead brother's wife so she could have a child under his brother's name. Not only was the woman not a whore, but Onan didn't even masturbate. Onan's sin was literally in sleeping with his brother's wife, and pulling out so she wouldn't have a child. Such a thing could be equivocated to adultery in addition to disobeying that particular law.
It was at that moment I realized how full of crap people were. I looked very intently for verses that could at least support the claim, and nothing rang a bell. I've yet to find one to this day, but I sure do get a kick out of people trying to. |
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:21 pm
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There... seems to be something of a trend of "Sexual = Sinful". I'm not entirely sure why. Among other things, humans are designed to reproduce a specific way, so clearly, sex itself cannot be bad. Otherwise God would have created a situation demanding people sin in order to perpetuate the species. Which, of course, makes no sense at all. The whole point of sin is that people choose to do it, and while they (usually) choose to have sex... choices themselves aren't inherently sinful, and that's an awfully silly thing to look down upon. "I need you to reproduce, but I will find you guilty for doing what I need done"...? Again, ridiculous.
In fairness, though, a lot of this stuff is sort of social traditions that have come up over time. For example, at the moment, we view polygamy as bad... but we have records of Prophets with multiple wives. And kings who talked with prophets but were never (on record) called out on it by them. Hmm. Yet many Christians are fixated very intently on "One Man, One Woman". But like I said, social tradition, where views change over time and are influenced by many factors.
Also in fairness, not everybody seriously questions their beliefs to figure out why they think the way they do, which does sort of make it their fault...
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