Thread is closed; thanks everyone! (dog choice)

[kage no neko]

So.. I've been looking and researching what kind of dog I'd like to get for a few months now (since last august). After much discussion and arguing and flailing, etc... We (as in my boyfriend and I) have settled on a border collie. He wants either an irish wolfhound or a siberian husky, but we just don't have the land for that. We've a backyard, but it's definitely not enough for dogs like that, and our house would be way too small for one.

I'm against large dogs (or I'd totally get a great dane) due to the cost of feeding. I looked up the prices and... I can't imagine being able to afford that along with the other stuff it'd need. And he's against small dogs because "if I wanted a cat, I'd get a cat". And my mom thinks it'd be mean to get a dog that's smaller than our cats, 'cause she thinks it'd get beat up (if you met our cats, you'd agree).
Soooo... I was limited to "medium" dogs. Then we argued over this and that about different breeds in the medium size, what we do and don't like about them. I really want a dog, and it has to be one that we both can agree on. It's part of being in a relationship and being a family, gotta agree on things. And this would be a VERY big change, and I want him to not hate the dog from the get-go just because he doesn't like the breed. And I'd really appreciate his help, especially when it's a puppy.

I'm looking for opinions and advice. I think I've got most of my bases covered in wanting this dog, but I'm looking for a second opinion.
While I don't have much land (and therefore I have no flocks for it to herd), I very much look forward to exercising with the dog and training it to do all sorts of tricks and... um... I guess learning with it. I've never had my own dog before (though there have been "family" dogs), so it'll be a learning experience for both of us. The time I've spent researching what dog I'd want has also gone towards learning how to train them... I'm still trying to figure out the whole potty training part, but I have plenty of time before I actually get one.

And I haven't ruled out the possibility of getting a mutt from the shelter. Just... that's not the point of this thread. Border collies. Advice, suggestions, questions, anything helpful you can think of?



Edit:
Looking into other breeds that were mentioned, thanks a lot. If anyone has anything more to say, feel free to PM me. biggrin  

[Moth Feathers]

Tips...
make sure all your other critters have the BEST quality of life before you get a new pet. This means upgrading cages, improving diet, separating animals that should be housed singlely, etc. This is for all critters- birds, snakes, cats, whatever. If they aren't living in the best of habitats and eating the best of foods, make it happen before you ever take on any new animals.

For your border collie, make sure you have TONS of time to spend with it. Border collies are HIGH ENERGY, and are extremely intelligent. These are dogs bred to herd sheep 8+ hours a day and they crave stimulation. Since you mention potty training and such, I'm assuming you're getting a puppy, and well...just remember the dedication that requires. You're going to spend 2+ hours each day (probably more, to be honest) doing rigorous physical activity.

I recommend joining a forum about dogs (there's lots out there) and talking to some border collie owners/breeders. Make sure to get in the habit of actually going outside and walking, each and every day no matter if the weather is bad or you feel tired, since once you get this dog that's what you'll be doing everyday for over a decade. Research about interactive toys! Those are awesome.
To maybe get some experience with dogs before you get your first one, try seeing if any friends have dogs and see if they'll let you walk/play/train with them. That should give you some idea of what you'll be doing.  

[kage no neko]

I have had experience with family dogs, I grew up with at least one for most of my life.. But I've never had my own. I've never had to completely take care of one before. I walked and bathed my mom's dogs though. Also fed them and watered them when I saw their bowl was empty. But neither of them are trained to go potty outside, even now. They go on a potty pad because "the weather messed up their training". Which I think is bullshit, but I never had a say in it because they're not my dogs.

The only "improvement" I can think of I'm already planning on. smile Wanting to upgrade my snake tanks to larger sizes. They're growing slithers and I enjoy putting new fun things in and would like to give them stuff to climb on. But both the new tanks and the dog will have to wait until after I get a job. So there's still lots of time between now and when I get the dog. Plenty of time to prepare for it also, and buy the things it'll need.

And I'm hoping to get one around 4-5 months old. I don't have any idea what my work schedule will be, but I'm hoping it'll work around my boyfriend's, so the puppy won't be left alone for any longer than 4 hours. And if I get a job where I'm hoping to, it's a 15 minute walk, that I could probably do during a break to take the puppy out for potty.

crying But this is why I wasn't wanting the border collie. It's just got SO much energy. My boyfriend says it'll be good for me. It'll actually NEED me to do stuff with it and take it for walks and play with it, so I won't have time to be depressed. Which is one of my problems...  

[Moth Feathers]

No offense, but I've heard way too many cases where the "I'll do x when I get x" just backfire completely. I don't think it's a good idea to get something (in this case, a border collie) with the expectation that it will significantly alter/change you or compel you to dedicate time when you normally wouldn't (in this case, make you become more active/less depressed). Yes yes, I know in this case it'll be like, "Well the dog NEEDS me to do this" but still.
My mom, whom unfortunately isn't too bright when it comes to animals, got a dog- a puppy, no less. She also worked 10+ hours a day, ate through her lunch break, etc- was generally a very stressed, busy person. She assumed that by getting a dog she'd stop dedicating so much time to working and relax and all this stuff.
Did it happen? Of course not. Poor dog. She eventually got rid of it.

A lot of people when they were kids (or even when they're adults) will get certain items with the expectation they'll be different once they get it but it never works out. Like, oh, I was once watching Wifeswap and this lady spend thousands of dollars on this mural in her backyard to help with her meditation. Did she ever actually meditate? Lol, no.

People will have kids in relationships expecting that the kids will suddenly help keep the relationship cohesive but that, too, often does not work out.

So I'm just saying- generally things like that backfire. It's great that you want a dog but perhaps consider a breed that requires less exercise, just in case things don't work out. Most dogs you can always give /more/ exercise...few dogs you can give /less/, at least without causing an excess of behavioral issues.
Getting a dog may change your life for the first year or so, and you may become more active/happier/etc, but what about in the next five years? Ten? Can you really keep up with such a drastic lifestyle change?

Other improvements might be to your other animals besides snakes. For example, your cats- are they currently being fed the highest-quality diet you want them to have? This may be raw, this may be a kibble or wet food- but what ever it is, it should be in your opinion the best darn thing they could be eating.
Also consider enrichment- cat trees, for instance, and perhaps interactive toys? Not sure if those exist for cats.
Do you still have your birds? They should have plenty of quality vegetables- the 'quality' part is really important. A lot of vegetables aren't all that nutritious and don't really do much for the bird- they can be fed, but shouldn't make up the bulk of the fresh foods offered. They should be getting mainly what I call the 'essential' veggies, things high in vitamin A and with a good calcium to phosphorus ratio, things such as kale, turnip greens, mustard greens, romaine lettuce, bok choy (in order of importance). Vegetables should be given at least daily in unlimited quantities.
Space is also really important. ALL cages that they're being housed in should be at the very least 24 inches long. Each bird should have at least 1 square foot of space, preferably 2 or more (1 sq ft is rather pitiful, to be honest)- to calculate square footage, multiply the length and width (in inches) of the cage then divide by 144. So 4 birds (finches, budgies, whichever- I don't believe you own any large parrots that would have significantly different standards) in a cage means a cage AT LEAST 4 sq ft of floor space.  

[Whiskey On A Sunday]

Owning a working breed is a lot of work. Years ago my mother adopted a border collie mix from the shelter. Because he wasn't given enough exercise and stimulation he ate/destroyed 2 couches and pulled up a whole room of carpet. Once he started to get the proper exercise (when I moved back home) But if you don't already have an active life style its pretty much guaranteed that the dog will not be happy. Be prepared to spend several hours a day exercising the dog and training. Just putting him in the back yard for a few hours will not cut it.  

[kage no neko]

We decided to try to give our cats some raw, just to have them try it, just a tiny bit.. One licked it a bit and walked off and the other refused to even touch it. And they're picky about wet food, so they only get that for breakfast, and they're getting blue buffalo for their other meal.

The birds get veggies as often as we get them. xd Which wildly varies. They LOVE their carrots though. And our cockatiel LOVES mini corn. I just haven't been able to find mini corn lately. sad They both also like lettuce. I only get the green leafy stuff since I don't even like iceburg lettuce. And that's not terribly often either.. Most any veggie we get I'll have them try. (once I confirm that it won't kill them)
The keets and cockatiel are also fed a pellet diet in addition to seed. I'll probably cut back on the seed now that it's getting warmer (boyfriend likes to keep the house cool to keep the heating bill down). But they do eat the pellets too.
I'm not too sure about the cages though. Like I said, we can't get larger ones. And they each have their own perch and room to flap, and they are let out to get exercise. The cockatiel has his own cage though, and it's decently large. Mostly because he's a brat and doesn't like to share, but he loves having his cage next to the keet's.
The only place we could afford to put larger cages is in the basement, and I don't want to put the birds down there. Right now they're in the dining room, which has the sliding glass door.. so they get to wake up to the sun. Down in the basement, it lights up, but you never see the sun down there.


So while laying in bed I was having a thought. The second dog I had in mind was a dalmatian. Would that be better for me than a border collie, less energetic?
I want a dog that I can trust to stay by my side... from what I've read, that pretty much rules out the hounds. I'm not 100% on it, but from what I get the herding dogs are more likely to stay by your side and be your "partner". Which is the kinda thing I'm looking for. Also read that dalmatians were bred to ride beside a carriage... which makes me worry about their energy level, but if it's less than the border collie's it might be okay. But I'm also wanting a dog that has that soft feathery fur, not a smooth coat.. I'd look at a golden retriever but... my sister has one, and let's just not go there. Trying to avoid dogs that she has, it's for the best.
I guess that's basically what I'm looking for, a companion dog. And I know quite a few smaller dogs have been bred just for that, but my boyfriend says no to them. So... that's where I'm stuck at. Wanting a companion.  

[DeeSpark]

Don't know what's been said yet at the moment I'm to tired to look at the above posts (It's past my bed time surprised )

First off, any dog requires dedication, time, effort, love and well... excercise and training. Even when you don't feel like it. Yesterday I had a major headache, my body ached, I felt like I had a bad flu, and my mouth hurt because I got new, tighter wires for my braces. All I wanted was to sleep, but I still got out there, with my energetic, dog agrressive terrier, and took him for a 45 minute walk, and did training with him to change how he feels about dogs (to be honest I felt great after the walk).

Yes my I have two small dogs. One needs half an hour of walking, because she's my older girl. My other younger guy however, to be well balanced, needs a 45 minute walk, a training session a day of about 10 minutes (though sometimes this doesn't happen every day, I'll admit, but it happens almost every day), and a play session with toys atleast once a day, preferably twice.

For a medium dog, the needs are more, and I wouldn't advise a border collie or any breed like it, until you;ve atleast experienced having a dog. Now if you want a medium sized dog, I would start going for 1 hour walks daily. Or if it suits you better, two half hour walks. Maybe even practise walking further. After that, do you have time to play. Then do you have time to train?
Ok, so most people don't walk their dogs that long, or do any training or whatever with their medium sized dogs, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't. Giving your dog exercise and mental stimulation keeps the dog healthy, happy, and less likely to show behaviour problems.

If you don't want a border collie I think an english bulldog would be great. Not as nice to pat, and maybe not as cute to look at until you get attached to them, but they're good dogs. Maybe going to a rescue and walking some dogs would give you an idea?
Any dog will keep you busy, trust me.  

[Skeksis]

kage no neko

So while laying in bed I was having a thought. The second dog I had in mind was a dalmatian. Would that be better for me than a border collie, less energetic?
I want a dog that I can trust to stay by my side... from what I've read, that pretty much rules out the hounds. I'm not 100% on it, but from what I get the herding dogs are more likely to stay by your side and be your "partner". Which is the kinda thing I'm looking for. Also read that dalmatians were bred to ride beside a carriage... which makes me worry about their energy level, but if it's less than the border collie's it might be okay. But I'm also wanting a dog that has that soft feathery fur, not a smooth coat.. I'd look at a golden retriever but... my sister has one, and let's just not go there. Trying to avoid dogs that she has, it's for the best.
I guess that's basically what I'm looking for, a companion dog. And I know quite a few smaller dogs have been bred just for that, but my boyfriend says no to them. So... that's where I'm stuck at. Wanting a companion.

Oh a hound will be your partner... a partner is the true sense of the word, though. They'll work with you but not for you if ya get my drift. xd

Sounds like you are after something super handler orientated and highly biddable, in which case the BC would be a better choice than the dal. Dals can be pretty hardheaded and stubborn, and are probably just as active as a BC. I wouldn't count on a dal wanting to stick by your side.

BCs are great dogs. If you are going to go through a breeder then take your time, research lines, talk to people in the breed and find a line that is known for having an 'off' switch. If you go the rescue route then a breed specific rescue that runs it's dogs through foster homes before adoption will be able to find something to your specifications.

Also, I highly reccomend hanging out in malinois forums and talking to malinois owners. Those poor folk generally have a pretty comprehensive understanding of how to satisfy super high energy dogs. xd A lot of valuable stuff to be learnt from them, no matter what breed you'll be getting. razz

What else do you want in a dog?  

[kage no neko]

Skeksis

Oh a hound will be your partner... a partner is the true sense of the word, though. They'll work with you but not for you if ya get my drift. xd

Sounds like you are after something super handler orientated and highly biddable, in which case the BC would be a better choice than the dal. Dals can be pretty hardheaded and stubborn, and are probably just as active as a BC. I wouldn't count on a dal wanting to stick by your side.

BCs are great dogs. If you are going to go through a breeder then take your time, research lines, talk to people in the breed and find a line that is known for having an 'off' switch. If you go the rescue route then a breed specific rescue that runs it's dogs through foster homes before adoption will be able to find something to your specifications.

Also, I highly reccomend hanging out in malinois forums and talking to malinois owners. Those poor folk generally have a pretty comprehensive understanding of how to satisfy super high energy dogs. xd A lot of valuable stuff to be learnt from them, no matter what breed you'll be getting. razz

What else do you want in a dog?

My cats are inside-only, so I'm wanting a companion that I can go outside with... one that can keep me company while I do yard work (maybe even help by attacking the rake or broom).. One that I can go for walks through the neighborhood with, since I feel too shy to do it alone. One that'd be willing to play fetch with tennis balls and frisbees. One that would love to snuggle, but also not mind having alone time in it's kennel. I'd like one with the fur style of the border collie, the not too long, but definitely not a smooth coat. One that I can play with the fur, and not have to worry about it overheating during the summer (since it gets pretty warm here). But it also snows, so it'd be great to have a dog that can go out and enjoy romping in the snow. It DOES get pretty cold too, but I'd be willing to get it a coat.. Much rather get it a coat than have to shave it for the summer. And a smart one! I would love to be able to teach it tricks and spend lots of time just having fun doing those tricks and learning more. I can't see myself ever actually entering it in competitions though.. But I'd also want to take it out hiking (which we do) and trust it to stay by my side. I don't hunt, so I don't need a hunting dog, and I certainly don't want one that'll go off just because it smells or sees something and completely ignore me... that'd really suck.
I also love the tri color spots above the eyebrows, like the rottweiler, and also the... is it called a blaze? the strip of color (or white) between the eyes. I love black and white and also tri color. But I'm not too fond of blue eyes. For some reason blue eyes on a dog are just weird to me. If they were darker blue it'd be okay, but they're usually ice blue and just.. weird, lol.  

[Krissim Klaw]

Skeksis

Also, I highly reccomend hanging out in malinois forums and talking to malinois owners. Those poor folk generally have a pretty comprehensive understanding of how to satisfy super high energy dogs. xd A lot of valuable stuff to be learnt from them, no matter what breed you'll be getting. razz

What else do you want in a dog?

Did I just here my dream breed mentioned? *Long wishful sigh* Perhaps one day.

I have to admit though, I like having a low maintenance well balanced dog. I see people mentioning needing to walk when they have colds and are ill and it makes me glad I have a dog that has no problem taking days off if I need them. As for exercise I have never considered walking much exercise for a dog. It is good mental stimulation but even with my small ten pound dog, a human walk is hardly considered physical exercise for him.  

[Krissim Klaw]

kage no neko

My cats are inside-only, so I'm wanting a companion that I can go outside with...

How are your cats with dogs? Border Collies can be rather hit and miss when it comes to being around cats. It is not a breed I would trust unsupervised with a cat. They tend to want to herd the cats and depending on how the cats feel about it and the drive in the dog it can range from amusing fun for all to dead or injured cats.  

[kage no neko]

Krissim Klaw

kage no neko

My cats are inside-only, so I'm wanting a companion that I can go outside with...

How are your cats with dogs? Border Collies can be rather hit and miss when it comes to being around cats. It is not a breed I would trust unsupervised with a cat. They tend to want to herd the cats and depending on how the cats feel about it and the drive in the dog it can range from amusing fun for all to dead or injured cats.

Kitty spent most of her life around my mom's dogs, so about 7 years. She liked to whack them and run, leaving them to get in trouble, lol. So she's okay with dogs and doesn't much mind them.
Tora is our new cat that we got from the humane society in January. I don't remember seeing anything on his sheet about how he handles dogs though. I figure it'd be okay since he's large and likes to play (poor Kitty). He'll probably like having a puppy to play with. And he's front declawed, so there's no risk of him scratching the puppy.  

[Akiska]

I've found my Dal was pretty laid back, but she was also a special case, an abused rescue that had 11 pups before she was even 2. She stayed with us until we let her go at the age of 16 due to digestive tract cancer. Until a month before her death she had no visible signs of health issues. She was very enthusiastic about walks, balls, being outside, but was easily trained.

The dalmation pup we got was extreamly smart and trained quickly despite being deaf, until she got sick. Turns out that the people we got her from said she had her puppy shots, but the vets had no record of them, so the "booster" we got her was actually her first shot, and she got parvo between that and us finding out it was her first. redface Should have asked to see the vet records but it was a "Take her or I'll shoot her" situation.

My cocker spaniel was great for me, he loved being outside, loved chasing birds, rabbits, and balls, loved going on walks and didn't pull much, extremely quick on the training, and they come in tri-color and black and tan like what you said you liked. Cockers are a higher energy dog, but unlike a BC or a Dal won't go absolutely bonkers if they miss one day of exercise. To me the only downside might be grooming, they need almost daily brushing and definately weekly at least ear cleaning.

I've had a golden lab mix also, he was a bit high drive, and nippy as a pup, but mellowed out quite well by the time he was a year. Sadly he was stubborn as all get out and refused to learn [so not like either one of his parent breeds] and ended up knocking down my 2 year old brother and giving him a concussion, so we rehomed him to a place that didn't have small children, and the person didn't mind him not having great manners.  

[Mistress of Rain]

kage no neko

Skeksis

Oh a hound will be your partner... a partner is the true sense of the word, though. They'll work with you but not for you if ya get my drift. xd

Sounds like you are after something super handler orientated and highly biddable, in which case the BC would be a better choice than the dal. Dals can be pretty hardheaded and stubborn, and are probably just as active as a BC. I wouldn't count on a dal wanting to stick by your side.

BCs are great dogs. If you are going to go through a breeder then take your time, research lines, talk to people in the breed and find a line that is known for having an 'off' switch. If you go the rescue route then a breed specific rescue that runs it's dogs through foster homes before adoption will be able to find something to your specifications.

Also, I highly reccomend hanging out in malinois forums and talking to malinois owners. Those poor folk generally have a pretty comprehensive understanding of how to satisfy super high energy dogs. xd A lot of valuable stuff to be learnt from them, no matter what breed you'll be getting. razz

What else do you want in a dog?

My cats are inside-only, so I'm wanting a companion that I can go outside with... one that can keep me company while I do yard work (maybe even help by attacking the rake or broom).. One that I can go for walks through the neighborhood with, since I feel too shy to do it alone. One that'd be willing to play fetch with tennis balls and frisbees. One that would love to snuggle, but also not mind having alone time in it's kennel. I'd like one with the fur style of the border collie, the not too long, but definitely not a smooth coat. One that I can play with the fur, and not have to worry about it overheating during the summer (since it gets pretty warm here). But it also snows, so it'd be great to have a dog that can go out and enjoy romping in the snow. It DOES get pretty cold too, but I'd be willing to get it a coat.. Much rather get it a coat than have to shave it for the summer. And a smart one! I would love to be able to teach it tricks and spend lots of time just having fun doing those tricks and learning more. I can't see myself ever actually entering it in competitions though.. But I'd also want to take it out hiking (which we do) and trust it to stay by my side. I don't hunt, so I don't need a hunting dog, and I certainly don't want one that'll go off just because it smells or sees something and completely ignore me... that'd really suck.
I also love the tri color spots above the eyebrows, like the rottweiler, and also the... is it called a blaze? the strip of color (or white) between the eyes. I love black and white and also tri color. But I'm not too fond of blue eyes. For some reason blue eyes on a dog are just weird to me. If they were darker blue it'd be okay, but they're usually ice blue and just.. weird, lol.

no offence to anyone, to me, it sounds like you would love a mutt of some sort. And the only way to really find those guys are going to shelters and petfinder.