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 Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:17 am
We all know (Or we should all know by now) the story of Easter and the events leading up to the resurrection of Jesus.
Something about it bugs me, though.
Most of us believe that because what Judas did was unforgivable, and because it was Pilate who ultimately judged Jesus to death, we claim that they both must be in Hell.
For some reason I don't think that's the case. If God knew that these events were necessary to get us to where we are now, and it played out that way in the end, I think that both are in Heaven, too, because by their actions we are all saved. The bible doesn't say that Pilate didn't give his life to God after the crucifixion, and accounts of Judas' death seem to vary in the bible. ((Read about it in Matthew, as well as Acts.))
What do you think? Discuss, please.
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:28 pm
I never heard anyone say that Pilate went to hell. I do believe he said that he washed his hand of this matter and the blood was on the people for their choice. Matthew 27:24-25 "When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility!” All the people answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!” " As for Judas, yes he is in hell. Luke 22:22 "The Son of Man will go as it has been decreed, but woe to that man who betrays him."
As far as their actions, God does not take away our free will, it was written according to the choices they made. God knew what choices they were going to make, he did not force them. Judas had a choice to love Jesus and not betray him but he got greedy and did it anyway. He allowed Satan to use him. Also, the ten commandments, in killing himself he broke the one of the ten commandments. Thou shall not kill. If he had changed his mind he would not have hung himself, when you hang yourself your neck snaps usually or at least you choke to death. There is a no real chance he asked for forgiveness before he died. Your mind is made up when you hang yourself.
Why would you really think that their actions are what saved us? It was Jesus who saves us. His actions and NOT theirs. It is wrong for you to give them credit for our salvation. If they had made different choices our salvation would have a different story but it would still be Jesus who made it so we could all be saved. Don't give credit where credit is not due.
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iamlost4ever Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:26 pm
iamlost4ever I never heard anyone say that Pilate went to hell. I do believe he said that he washed his hand of this matter and the blood was on the people for their choice. Matthew 27:24-25 "When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility!” All the people answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!” " As for Judas, yes he is in hell. Luke 22:22 "The Son of Man will go as it has been decreed, but woe to that man who betrays him." As far as their actions, God does not take away our free will, it was written according to the choices they made. God knew what choices they were going to make, he did not force them. Judas had a choice to love Jesus and not betray him but he got greedy and did it anyway. He allowed Satan to use him. Also, the ten commandments, in killing himself he broke the one of the ten commandments. Thou shall not kill. If he had changed his mind he would not have hung himself, when you hang yourself your neck snaps usually or at least you choke to death. There is a no real chance he asked for forgiveness before he died. Your mind is made up when you hang yourself. Why would you really think that their actions are what saved us? It was Jesus who saves us. His actions and NOT theirs. It is wrong for you to give them credit for our salvation. If they had made different choices our salvation would have a different story but it would still be Jesus who made it so we could all be saved. Don't give credit where credit is not due. I think I could have worded it better, after re-reading my first post. If it were not for Judas selling out Jesus and Pilate giving the people the choice to crucify him then we would not be where we are today, in a time where Jesus is the gateway to salvation and all we need to do is ask for forgiveness and salvation and it will be so. But I see where my argument falls out of the gate with two broken legs. I don't know. I guess I was thinking that if it goes with God's plan, then they were absolved. I don't know. It's one of those questions I will have to ask God if I go to Heaven. I say 'if' because I'm starting to question my standing with God, spiritually. I signed up for a course within my church to get a firmer understanding of Christianity. I ask questions like this because one, it helps me to grow, two, it sates my curiosity, three, I am guilty of enjoying hearing myself talk. I don't claim to know everything, and I certainly don't claim to be right in this matter. As for Judas' death by hanging himself, I know that this is what is said in the Gospel of Matthew. # The Matthew 27:3-10 says that Judas returned the money to the priests and committed suicide by hanging himself. They used it to buy the potter's field. The Gospel account presents this as a fulfillment of prophecy.[10] But consider these, as well. # The Acts of the Apostles says that Judas used the money to buy a field, but fell headfirst, and burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. This field is called Akeldama or Field Of Blood.[11] # The non-canonical Gospel of Judas says that the other eleven disciples stoned him to death after they found out about the betrayal.[12] # Another account was preserved by the early Christian leader, Papias: "Judas walked about in this world a sad example of impiety; for his body having swollen to such an extent that he could not pass where a chariot could pass easily, he was crushed by the chariot, so that his bowels gushed out." I would just like to add that I am not trying to start pointing fingers and accusing people that they don't know what they're talking about. Rather, I'm trying to learn more about Christianity and the Biblical canon, as well as grow spiritually. Bless you all.
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:26 pm
Be very careful what you read. There is only one Bible and the word of God says that nothing shall be added to or taken from the Bible. You do not really know the story of these of gospels that people claim were originally a part of the Bible. God inspired those who wrote the Bible to write what they did and how they did. These other writings could be anything from forgery to simple stories or diaries of sort. They could just be Satan's influence to confuse Christians by spreading lies even back then.
Second, it all depends on how Judas hung himself what happened to his body when he committed the act. If he did it bungee style, he would have went head first and maybe the force of him stopping caused his insides to burst out. Maybe he hit something that cut him open so when he stopped his insides spilled out. We don't know any more than what the Bible tells us.
Now, if you are questioning your standing with God, the best thing that you can do is get down on your knees. The Bible is the Living Word of God and the only thing you need to read. Read and pray.
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iamlost4ever Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:38 pm
iamlost4ever Be very careful what you read. There is only one Bible and the word of God says that nothing shall be added to or taken from the Bible. You do not really know the story of these of gospels that people claim were originally a part of the Bible. God inspired those who wrote the Bible to write what they did and how they did. These other writings could be anything from forgery to simple stories or diaries of sort. They could just be Satan's influence to confuse Christians by spreading lies even back then. Second, it all depends on how Judas hung himself what happened to his body when he committed the act. If he did it bungee style, he would have went head first and maybe the force of him stopping caused his insides to burst out. Maybe he hit something that cut him open so when he stopped his insides spilled out. We don't know any more than what the Bible tells us. Now, if you are questioning your standing with God, the best thing that you can do is get down on your knees. The Bible is the Living Word of God and the only thing you need to read. Read and pray. Thank you. I will do that. Again, I want to stress that I am not trying to stir up crap, I'm just trying to learn and get discussion going. I hope you understand; we were all skeptical at one point (and I sadly still am).
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:38 pm
I understand. You can't give up because you are doubting. You need to spend more time with God. That is the only thing that can really help. It is when you really connect with him that you will stop doubting you faith. You need to find what makes you feel closer to him and work at it. It could be song, reading your Bible, praying or something else. When I really pray and open up to God, or when I sing, I feel connected to him and feel his peace. After really taking time for him, I feel at peace through my day more than I ever thought possible.
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iamlost4ever Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:30 pm
Injustice-Shall-Fall We all know (Or we should all know by now) the story of Easter and the events leading up to the resurrection of Jesus. Something about it bugs me, though. Most of us believe that because what Judas did was unforgivable, and because it was Pilate who ultimately judged Jesus to death, we claim that they both must be in Hell. For some reason I don't think that's the case. If God knew that these events were necessary to get us to where we are now, and it played out that way in the end, I think that both are in Heaven, too, because by their actions we are all saved. The bible doesn't say that Pilate didn't give his life to God after the crucifixion, and accounts of Judas' death seem to vary in the bible. ((Read about it in Matthew, as well as Acts.)) What do you think? Discuss, please. I think that in the end God is the only one who knows. Yes what Judas did was unfogivable but Jesus does these things and allows these things take course for us to learn. yes the bible is a bit unclear on what happens after Jesus to all these people.all that we can do is trust that God did what was best, fair, and just for these two sould. which im positive he did smile
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Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:28 am
Ruthina Injustice-Shall-Fall We all know (Or we should all know by now) the story of Easter and the events leading up to the resurrection of Jesus. Something about it bugs me, though. Most of us believe that because what Judas did was unforgivable, and because it was Pilate who ultimately judged Jesus to death, we claim that they both must be in Hell. For some reason I don't think that's the case. If God knew that these events were necessary to get us to where we are now, and it played out that way in the end, I think that both are in Heaven, too, because by their actions we are all saved. The bible doesn't say that Pilate didn't give his life to God after the crucifixion, and accounts of Judas' death seem to vary in the bible. ((Read about it in Matthew, as well as Acts.)) What do you think? Discuss, please. I think that in the end God is the only one who knows. Yes what Judas did was unfogivable but Jesus does these things and allows these things take course for us to learn. yes the bible is a bit unclear on what happens after Jesus to all these people.all that we can do is trust that God did what was best, fair, and just for these two sould. which im positive he did smile Judas didn't believe in Jesus. He used them to be able to steal the money, they put him in charge of. If he didn't believe, he couldn't of asked for forgiveness. He had no faith. All he saw was that he caused incredible pain and suffering because of his own greed. God can use nonbelievers to do his work. He knew Judas was driven by greed and if put into a place where he would have the opportunity to make more money he would. God used Judas in spite of his disbelief to further his kingdom.
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iamlost4ever Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:43 am
iamlost4ever Ruthina Injustice-Shall-Fall We all know (Or we should all know by now) the story of Easter and the events leading up to the resurrection of Jesus. Something about it bugs me, though. Most of us believe that because what Judas did was unforgivable, and because it was Pilate who ultimately judged Jesus to death, we claim that they both must be in Hell. For some reason I don't think that's the case. If God knew that these events were necessary to get us to where we are now, and it played out that way in the end, I think that both are in Heaven, too, because by their actions we are all saved. The bible doesn't say that Pilate didn't give his life to God after the crucifixion, and accounts of Judas' death seem to vary in the bible. ((Read about it in Matthew, as well as Acts.)) What do you think? Discuss, please. I think that in the end God is the only one who knows. Yes what Judas did was unfogivable but Jesus does these things and allows these things take course for us to learn. yes the bible is a bit unclear on what happens after Jesus to all these people.all that we can do is trust that God did what was best, fair, and just for these two sould. which im positive he did smile Judas didn't believe in Jesus. He used them to be able to steal the money, they put him in charge of. If he didn't believe, he couldn't of asked for forgiveness. He had no faith. All he saw was that he caused incredible pain and suffering because of his own greed. God can use nonbelievers to do his work. He knew Judas was driven by greed and if put into a place where he would have the opportunity to make more money he would. God used Judas in spite of his disbelief to further his kingdom. idk in the end God is the only one who knows in truth was happended
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