[4e Homebrew] Succubus Player Race -- Feedback Requested

[Reevinja Mk II]

I tried to compare the race to the Doppelganger/Deva/Gensai in order to make it 'even' amongst them, but since I'm not comfortable with homebrewing 4e as I am 3.5, I figured I'd get some feedback on it - it is for a player in the Doorway to Chaos game. For the people in that game coming here to check it, let me know if you think it is alright or not at the very least - even if you have no suggestions. :]

Anyway.. I've broken it down into a racial block, and 2 feats. Removing some of its' powers entirely.

Succubus

Ability Scores: +2 Intelligence, +2 Charisma
Size: Medium
Speed: 6
Vision: Darkvision

Languages: Common, Choice of One Other
Skill Bonuses: +2 Bluff, +2 Diplomacy
Devil Resistance: You have fire resist 5 + 1/2 your level.
Immortal Origin: You are considered an immortal creature for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin.
Change Shape: You can use change shape as an at-will power.

Change Shape ------------ Succubus Racial Power
You alter your form to look like some other humanoind.
At-Will * [Polymorph]
Minor Action -- Personal
Effect: You can alter your physical form to take on the appearance of any Medium humanoid, including a unique individual (see Change Shape, Monster Manual page 280).


Charming Kiss [Paragon Tier]
Prerequisite: Succubus
Benefit: You gain the Charming Kiss encounter power.

Charming Kiss ------------ Feat Power
You can charm creatures into not attacking you, and taking blows for you.
Daily * [Charm]
Standard Action -- Melee Touch
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma -2 vs. Will
xxxHit: The target cannot attack the Succubus, and if the target is adjacent to the succubus when the succubus is targeted by a melee or a ranged attack, the target interposes itself and becomes the target of the attack instead. The effects last until the succubus or one of its' allies attacks the target, the succubus falls unconscious, or the target makes a successful saving throw.


Greater Resistance [Heroic Tier]
Prerequisite: Succubus
Benefit: Increase your fire resist by 5.
Special: You can take this feat more than once. Each time you take this feat, your resistance increases by another 5. You cannot increase your resistance past 20.
 

[iDragow]

It looks pretty good, very professionally done. My only suggestion would be to turn the Charming Kiss power into a (save ends) instead of until attacked/knocked unconscious. Just seems a little... overpowered. If the succubus stayed around the target, then they would be immune to melee and ranged attacks entirely.

But that's just a suggestion, and I'm more than fine to let the character into the game as-is. 3nodding  

[Reevinja Mk II]

You know, I'm not sure why I didn't think of that.. Will do. I'll keep the two other possibles on it, though, since they stay true tot he printed power.  

[NayrVentess]

That looks good, nice work. One thing I would say would be to make the fire resistance 5 + half level, like a Tiefling. That way the character wouldn't need to dedicate feats to improving their resistance (which I wouldn't want to do, personally).  

[Bound Birdie]

hmmm in this case that would be an 16? vrs 15 at taking it twice..but it would just open up one feat ... hmm really 10 would probably be fine with me just taking it once

The charming kiss is indeed quite powerful, originally were trying to balance it... I guess it's not technically dominated so the person could try to make a save that helps to keep me from just having a permanently lackey >.<  

[SporkMaster5000]

NayrVentess

That looks good, nice work. One thing I would say would be to make the fire resistance 5 + half level, like a Tiefling. That way the character wouldn't need to dedicate feats to improving their resistance (which I wouldn't want to do, personally).

I agree.
I think charming kiss should be a daily, it's crazy strong even as a save ends, you've effectively made one monster your b***h, and if you stay in melee you've forced it to remain your b***h, or risk some OAs. also the first attack roll would probably be better either vs. ref, or just make it a single roll. it's vs. Ac on the monster block because monsters don't need to worry about proficiency bonuses when attacking AC, they just have better attack bonuses. a non-weapon power vs. AC is not going to hit as often. if you make it vs. Ref for the first then there's a better average chance of it doing something. or you could just make it a single roll of maybe cha -2 vs. will, to make up for the loss of the first roll, but also to make it so the player isn't rolling once, hitting, and getting nothing out of the deal because the second roll missed.  

[Arc Vembris]

I'd drop Supernal language. Devas don't get it so I don't see why it should be an automatic for a succubus, just give an extra language of player choice  

[Bound Birdie]

Arc Vembris

I'd drop Supernal language. Devas don't get it so I don't see why it should be an automatic for a succubus, just give an extra language of player choice

would I be allowed to choose that language, I mean considering my background it would make more "sense" if I spoke supernal and not common at all, but I see that causing some problems.

I'd be okay with the kiss being daily as well, after comparing what I had to the doppelganger I do see you guys being worried about it being unfair. I was considering just dropping it all together, but I don't want Reeve to think I don't appreciate this. Plus it does help give a bard a little defense, I don't think she'll be able to handle melee to well. You guys seemed a pretty damage heavy team already so I figured you guys had that covered >.< Also maybe it could just be charisma vrs will or ref as just one roll would be simplest.

ah I was going to make the adjustments to night but I think I'll wait until the debate is ended and I get the final word.
Don't worry guys I don't want to be all powerful I just want to play....  

[SporkMaster5000]

Bound Birdie

Arc Vembris

I'd drop Supernal language. Devas don't get it so I don't see why it should be an automatic for a succubus, just give an extra language of player choice

would I be allowed to choose that language, I mean considering my background it would make more "sense" if I spoke supernal and not common at all, but I see that causing some problems.

you can't choose abyssal or supernal as a language granted by your race, but i don't know that giving supernal at first level is so much of a problem. yeah, devas don't get it, but their flavor is that they've been reincarnated in the mortal world since shortly after the dawn war. plus, gnolls get abyssal even in the dragon writeup, so not like having a language is broken or anything.  

[Bound Birdie]

Well I would really like to be able to speak it, being that she is a devil, coming from a land of hellish chaos. I don't see her having the opportunity to learn elvish or anything you know what I mean. If I don't speak it how have I been communicating with everyone where I'm at thus far? Letting pick another language does me no good if I can't have one that fits. Besides it still is only two languages I can't really see that giving me the ability to overplay everyone.  

[Arc Vembris]

Because Supernal is a language understood by everyone. It's the tongue of creation and the meaning echoes in the mind of anyone who hears it regardless of the words. At least, when spoken by a native speaker. So it's kind of like you have all languages when you have Supernal.  

[SporkMaster5000]

Arc Vembris

Because Supernal is a language understood by everyone. It's the tongue of creation and the meaning echoes in the mind of anyone who hears it regardless of the words. At least, when spoken by a native speaker. So it's kind of like you have all languages when you have Supernal.

technically it's when spoken by anyone who isn't a mortal, according to the DMG, though that still isn't how i remembered it, so you still have a point. on the other hand, there's nothing about understanding supernal that implies you can understand other languages, just that other people can understand you. I'd be fine with it for this one game, even if that's not something that might work for a full campaign.  

[Reevinja Mk II]

I adjusted the resistance to be 5 + 1/2 level.
Charming Kiss became a daily; reduced to a single roll of Charisma -2 vs. Will.
Languages changed to be Choice of One Other, for the game it will be used I will allow Supernal to be selected though since somehow.. I don't think being able to speak a language will stop you from being murdered by a bunch of monsters.

I don't feel Charming Kiss is too powerful, but I'll concede to change it. I like the idea of making it a daily, with a single roll.. I'd hate to have it wasted too, though I think it ultimately accomplishes the same thing - an encounter power gives multiple chances to use it, but with two rolls it means sometimes it won't work. A daily means you get to use it once, and its' an all-or-nothing for the day. If I did go back to 2 rolls, I'd probably change the first to Ref.. it totally makes more sense.

I mean, on one hand.. it makes it so the monster cannot attack the Succubus, and immune to (most) damage as long as it is alive. On the other hand - if used on a minion, it is a very temporary shield. If used on say.. an Elite - you have a very powerful shield... which you lose if your allies hit, meaning it can harass them more or less unopposed. And even a regular enemy gets that unopposed harrassing. And then with Save Ends, it still has the chance to break free on its' own. Unless there is something I am missing about [Charm] powers that say that it cannot attack the Succubus' allies, and must attack its' former allies.