Question: Class alterations

[glitterboypilot]

Racial Class Level Substutions, Class Alterations, etc.

It is probably up to the dm, but I was wondering if it says somewhere.

If there is a limit on number of alterations that can be added/subbed.  

[bamaotaku]

What exactly do you mean by "alterations"? Are you referring to alternate class features (Example: Bardic Knack vs Bardic Music) or just racial substitution levels?  

[glitterboypilot]

Both really.

I was wondering if I could make a Draconic.(With is a Racial Substitution from the Race of the Dragon) Battle Sorcerer(Unearthed Arcana) and add the one from Complete Mage. I don't have the book with me or I could type out the name. Or would that be to much for one character?  

[Reevinja Mk II]

I believe there is no hard and fast limit, aside from common sense and DM approval.

For example.. Draconic Sorcerer's first level substitution gives up a familiar, so if you take that you can't take any other abilities which require giving up a familiar (like Metamagic Specialist from PHB2) since.. you already gave it up.

From what you've chosen (Draconic Racial Substitution Battle Sorcerer with the Stalwart Variant from CM), I see a few conflicts which would require a DM's ruling on, since I don't believe there actually is one. Like HD - Battle Sorcerer gives d8, but the racial substitution level is d4. Personally, I would rule that levels you take the substitution level on (1, 4, 7) would be only d4, and the rest d8.. but I am sure there are some who would disagree.  

[glitterboypilot]

Yeah,

Battle Sorcerer; Class Variant,

Quote:

The battle sorcerer is no weak arcanist, hiding behind the fighters. Instead, she is a capable physical combatant who mixes magical prowess with fighting skill.

Hit Die
d8.

Base Attack Bonus
The battle sorcerer uses the base attack bonus progression of the cleric.

Class Skills
Remove Bluff from the battle sorcerer's class skill list. Add Intimidate to the battle sorcerer's class skill list.

Class Features
The battle sorcerer has all the standard sorcerer class features, except as noted below.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
At 1st level, a battle sorcerer gains proficiency with any light or one-handed martial weapon of the character's choice. She also gains proficiency with light armor.

Spellcasting
A battle sorcerer can cast sorcerer spells derived from her class levels of battle sorcerer while in light armor without the normal arcane spell failure chance.

A battle sorcerer has fewer daily spell slots than a standard sorcerer. Subtract one spell per day from each spell level on Table: The Sorcerer (to a minimum of zero spells per day). For example, a 1st-level battle sorcerer may cast four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells per day (plus bonus spells, if any).

A battle sorcerer knows fewer spells per spell level than a standard sorcerer. Subtract one spell known from each spell level on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known (to a minimum of one spell per spell level). For example, a 4th-level battle sorcerer knows five 0-level spells, two 1st-level spells, and one 2nd-level spell. When she reaches 5th level, the battle sorcerer learns one additional 1st-level spell, but doesn't learn an additional 2nd-level spell (since two minus one is one).

Draconic Sorcerer; Racial Substitution Level[1,4,7], is for dragon-blooded(koblods, Halfdragons, and characters who possess the Dragon heritige feat. Though the class gives the feat in replace of a familiar.) Character.
Skills: add Use magic Item.

1,4,7 Arcane insight: gives a bonus to knowledge arcane and maybe spellcasting
1st Draconic heritage: recevies as a bonus feat in replace of the familiar.
4th Spell-like ability: lose one spell slot to gain the ability to cast a 2 level spell or lower as a spell-like ability for a number of times a day.
7th bonus spells known the spells learned depend on the type of dragon heritage

Sterwart Sorcerer(I believe it's name is),alternate class feature, lose a few spell slots for 2x level bonus in hp.

My ultimate plan was to multiclass into a Mindspy(Complete Warrior, Uses the Detect thoughts spell to give combat bonuses.) with one class level in Mindbender (Complete Arcane, Twists a creature to do your biding. I just wanted the telepathic ability they get at first level.) So you can see that number of spells wasn't what I wanted. I just wanted to try and make a front line mage who could do what I wanted.

I wanted the Draconic part for the Spell-like ability, so I could cast Detect thoughts easier. The battle part was a good base for decent hp, bab, and the armor and weapon prof. was a bonus.
and the Sterwart for increased HP. But I didn't know if there was a limit on how far you could change a class from core.  

[Arc Vembris]

Of course remember that anything from Unearthed Arcana requires a bit more shipping and handling than content from other books as it changes things in more drastic ways. Make sure you've got DM approval there as well as his help implementing said rules. There's plenty of rules in UA that can unbalance the game if applied haphazardly.  

[Archfiend Damio]

As far as I can tell as long as you are not losing something that you already lost. Such as replaces familiar... and then try to add something else that does the same. then there should be no problem.

Sense the Dragon blood sorcerer is still a Sorcerer you could then take battle sorcerer as well there would be no real difference other then you would have less spells and no familiar but you would gain Draconic Heritage and the BAB of a Cleric as well as light Armor pro and a one handed martial weapon pro and Armored mage (light) Effectively. BUT each level you sub would only give you a d4HD as apposed to the d8 you would nomally get as a battle Sorcerer. This is a power balance. Just like a Dwarf Sorcerer gets a D6HD when taking the racial sub from Races of Stone.
If you really want to get down to it you can increase this again and take battle mage out of the Complete Arcane. Which gives you the ability to wear Med armor... But then you would also have to take Med. Armor Pro feat as well sense you wouldn't have it.
You might also what to take a gander at the Dragon Magic book. It also provides you with some feats so that you make take Draconic Heritage even if you are not a Sorcerer. the Feat is called 'Dragontouched' plus some nifty spells or Draconic/Dragonblood creatures.

But in the end you are of course limited to the DMs build guidelines. And if they tell you no then that is that. As well the most likely wont allow it if the book is not on the allowed list. A lot of DMs nix the Unearthed Arcana, because of flaws and traits. But I would encurage your DM to reconsider just nix flaws and traits. (Or if they want a flaw the DM chooses it.) Well now that I have got off on a tangent.

Hoped that helped.  

[glitterboypilot]

Thanks, everyone.

It helped out, allot. So the biggest thing would be to talk my dm into the idea.... Wish me luck....