Jobs & "Equal Opportunity"

[AntoniaMerEnfant]

I was wondering what other people felt about being asked their race when applying for a job.

I for one really, really hate the practice. It's like one big inappropriate question after a series of related questions.

"What are your job skills?"

"What is your educational background?"

"What are your career goals?"

"What race are you?"


I don't like it because 1. my race has nothing to do with my job performance 2. Will it put me at an advantage or disadvantage? 3. I dislike the notion that we conveniently fit into racial categories.

I don't want to get hired for being white. I don't want to not get hired because I don't fulfill a quota. I want to get hired for being competent at a job. I want to not get hired because I lack the needed skills. Also, I wasn't sure what to put for the disability question. I mean my hearing problems aren't described in a yes or no check box. Yes, I have a hearing aid and have problems in certain noise environments. No, I am not disabled to the point of needing to communicate via sign language. I can answer phones, hold conversations, etc. However, if I fail to check the disability box, and my hearing impairment comes up-- does that count as withholding information on an application?

I know this is a hot button topic. But I wanted to know how guild members of various races, ethnicities, backgrounds, etc felt about these sorts of questions. I know some people say you're not required to say your race- but the check boxes I get on some applications do not have an option of refusing to answer.

Oh yes, and there's also the gender question. They might as well ask,

"Excuse me, but what's in your pants?"  

[EmilyScissorhands]

Amen!

I've always wondered why they asked that question. Does it matter what race you are? Like you said, it has nothing to do with job performance. It's ridiculous.  

[AntoniaMerEnfant]

It's weird to me that it's usually for jobs that boast their "equal opportunity employer"-ness.

If the opportunities are equal, why ask race? Race should not be a consideration. Besides, if someone was prejudiced against one group or the other, wouldn't mentioning race on a job application defeat that opportunity?

I mean how do I know if an employer chose me over another candidate because I was white? I don't feel right working for a company that would do that.

I think Target holds the record for most inappropriate questions on an application. I think there was more about my family history on there than my job skills. They asked if my parents fought when I was a kid. Of course they fought- they're divorced. That's really not an uncommon thing, and it doesn't turn out half as bad as the media makes it. Sadly, they never even bothered to interview me (this was over a year ago). Biggest waste of an application.

I begin to wonder if we finally pass laws to try to cut down discrimination against GLBT if that means they will begin to ask one's sexual orientation on those "Equal Opportunity Employment" applications.

I think I've been passed over for a few jobs (like stocking) because I am a woman. That really gets my goat.  

[chibihotachan]

I hate questions like that, but more importanly I hate that it's even an issue. For several years on aplications I got to the point where I would make it very clear that I was a gimp (sorry about that word, it just flows so easily for me) and I'm in a wheelchair and if they have a problem with it, FINE! Don't call me in for an interview. I hate going in for a job and watch the inerviewer's face fall when I come wheeling in and knowing in less tan two seconds there is no way I'll get the job. If it's that much of a poblem, don't waste my time. Plus I don't want to work for a company that makes issue out of it.  

[Ybrik]

I dislike the question of race myself. I disagree with the question in general. Why should it matter? The truth is, It's in practice due to affirmative action. If you are a minority (this includes females technically), according to the rules of affirmative action, that person is supposed to get the job over a white male or the "majority" that is equally qualified. To me, it should be done away with entirely... A job should be based fully on personality and qualifications. Race and gender have nothing to do with your ability to perform a job. Everyone should be given an equal chance.  

[Wyst]

I've often been passed over for jobs because of my gender and/or race. One city in particular was a nightmare a few years back. I've often been tempted to change the race box just to see what would happen. On more than one occasion, I've had some rather interesting interviews...(This isn't the most politically correct thing to say, but it's absolutely true)

Affirmative Action really doesn't do much in practice. If various hiring authorities would do more on their own part to stop some of the behaviors I've witnessed, it wouldn't have to be legislated at all.  

[AntoniaMerEnfant]

I've always wondered what would happen if you checked a box that is blatantly not your ethnicity/race.

I mean what's an employer going to say or do?

I've wondered what would happen if I checked the male box, what will they do, ask me to unzip my trousers and prove it? (Though it is on my birth certificate as female... drats).  

[Sablara]

Men and women are different. White and Black (and every other colour and race) are different as they have different cultures and traditions. Young and old are different. Cats and dogs are different.
As for as I'm concerned (and the company I work for agrees) that one isn't better or worse than the other. They're just different. Each has a weakness and each has a strength. Having a group of different people often works well as they tend to think differently, thus working their strengths in their own area and contributing equally to their task.

An apple is nice to eat...but mix it with all the other fruits and you have a wondeful tasty dish which is a lot more interesting. heart

Anywho, back to the whinge - it's illegal in some countries to ask such questions due to anti-discrimination laws. Usually things like marital status, age and gender are not asked for.

I work for an American oil company. In the US they have a quota they have to meet for employing women. In Australia, they dont - but they employ more than the US! (I guess Aussie women are more interested in oil than the Americans...?) My company won an award this year for "Women's choice of Employer 2008"
http://www.boral.com.au/Images/common/pdfs/EOWA_Media_Release_4March2008.pdf?AUD=NewsAnnouncements&Nodes=&site=CI  

[AntoniaMerEnfant]

I think I prefer it when they don't ask. I mean you can't protect against the prejudice arising during interviews- but at least I know I got in the door for no other reason than my qualifications.

Also I think the problem with quotas is quantifying how many people of a certain gender, race, ability status, or ethnicity are "enough".

Sure- by legality you might only need "one" person in a wheelchair- but if there are 10 lined up with fantastic skills and talents, why not hire as many as there are open positions for?  

[Ybrik]

One thing i have noticed is racism and discrimination does seem to have become less of a problem then it used to be from even when I was a kid. Oh sure, it is certainly still an issue, but I find (at least in my area of the world) it seems that those who are bigots are generally not very intelligent to start with and tend to show their ignorance after a minute's conversation with them (I.E. southern red-necks that wave around their rebel flags like the Civil War wasn't over 200 years ago.) Again I say, if you're qualified for a position, race or gender should bear no merit in whether or not you receive it. Also, why do we need a "certain number" of everyone for the quota to fill a job? What if that "required number" isn't interested? Political correctness seems a bit backwards to me sometimes. I just don't see why everyone can't put their differences aside and be happy doing their own things.  

[AntoniaMerEnfant]

Quotas for gender would never work in the counseling profession in the US.

It's greatly, greatly female heavy. When I was at SLU in a program of about 100 students we had 6 guys. One of the guys, Ben, at one point got pissed off when one of my teachers wanted to get a male opinion on something (as almost always, he was the only guy in the class). I think his response was something along the lines of "I don't want to have to represent all men."

One of the key influences of me switching out of education and counseling and into business was I desperately wanted to get out of a "Traditionally female" field. I like shaking things up too much to do what is expected of me wink  

[chibihotachan]

It is a little disheartening too being in one of the minorities. You have to work at least twice as hard as anybody to prove you deserve to be there and not just some EOE charity case. It sets up a lot of disctimination in the between coworkers and even customers / clients.  

[AntoniaMerEnfant]

chibihotachan

It is a little disheartening too being in one of the minorities. You have to work at least twice as hard as anybody to prove you deserve to be there and not just some EOE charity case. It sets up a lot of disctimination in the between coworkers and even customers / clients.

It really bothers me when people gripe about someone else getting a job due to the EOE. While I don't agree with quotas (because it seems to set up a sense of "enough" of a certain type of people), I hate when people assume someone else got the job due to a quota. I mean it's like they can't fathom that maybe someone got a job because they had better experience and skills.

In the main forums I once saw someone making an argument against affirmative action. I think I couldn't take his "reverse discrimination" cry more serious because--well he had atrocious grammar and spelling. To me I think his lack of marketable writing skills probably had more to do with getting passed over for a job than his skin color.

I think I've resolved to just leave fields blank from now on (though online apps might be fussy). Who we are is more than the designation of a check box.  

[Sablara]

The sad fact is, that with or without "equal opportunity" laws and quotas, people are going to discriminate. We, as humans, do it without thinking most of the time. It's like picking up a "brand name" item (food or clothing) just because it's more familiar to us. I think it's going to take decades before real equality to starts to emerge.  

[Super Buick]

i hate the fact that businesses still have ethnicity on thier applications. i also hate that disabilities are an issue. my fiancee has spina bifida. because of her disability, she felt that she needed to get an education to be competitive in the job market. so she got her master's in english. after she graduated, she substituted for years before she started putting her resumes into different schools in the county. of roughly 25 resumes and applications, she had two interviews. one told her that she didn't have enough qualifications, even though she had her minor in creative writing. they hired someone with identical credentials, minus the creative writing. the second one told her flat out that they wouldn't hire her due to her disability. they felt that the students wouldn't be respectful of her disability. since then, she got a job at the casino here. they hired her because they had to hire somone with a disability. they didn't realize that she had the talents that she has. in less than 9 months, she went from a entry level position to human resources as a training specialist.