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Calypsophia

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:06 am


I took this from an article in the NY Times on my homepage this morning. I dont fully understand it, so I'm hoping that someone here may be able to help explain it in a way I can better grasp. but what's cool about it, is from what I've read, it seems to coincide with the buddhist idea of no-self, and that what we perceive as reality is really an illusion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/science/15brain.html?em&ex=1200632400&en=c3b4dba4881c96e2&ei=5087
&exprod=myyahoo
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:39 pm


I read this article twice, printed it out, and read it two more times with a dictionary in my lap! Here's what I got out of it:

Ludwig Boltzmann was a 19th-century physicist who attempted to answer the question of why time seems to go in only one direction. At the time, the leading theory in cosmology was that the universe had always existed. Boltzmann took this as a given. He also took as given the second law of thermodynamics, "which says that entropy, which is a measure of disorder or wasted energy, can never decrease in a closed system like the universe." Boltzmann said that time follows this tendency of particles to spread into the most random configuration, and to not move toward a more organized configuration. Thus, time flows in only one direction, just as particles flow only towards disorder.

In an infinite universe (one with no beginning), the disorder would increase to the point of maximum entropy and equilibrium. No life would be possible.

What Boltzmann suggested was that, "over an infinite time period random fluctuations would occasionally form temporary pockets of lower entropy", essentially starting a new time line and making it possible to form life.

However, by Boltzmann's calculations, the fluctuation necessary to create the universe we know today would be improbably large. He says it is much more probable for smaller fluctuations to occur producing only parts of a universe--such as a naked brain floating in space.

Today, however, astronomers have evidence that the universe has not always been here, that "it was born in the Big Bang, which somehow set the arrow of time, 14 billion years ago."

The problem is that the Boltzmann brain theory still makes logical sense. However, "one of the central orthodoxies of cosmology is that...we and our experiences are typical of cosmic beings." Boltzmann says that the odds of that being true are astronomical, and that it is more likely that all of our observations about our past are merely illusions or false memories.

Kachan36


Calypsophia

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:08 am


maybe I'm just dense, but I'm not sure I get exactly how this has to do with our memories of things.. like what happened yesterday, or last year... being illusions.

the reason why I'm interested is because I think a great deal of buddhist philosophy, and agree with much of it tho of course I question a lot, such as the idea of reality as we know it being an illusion, and the idea of no-self. of course, I always keep in mind that anything is essentially possible, and these things could be taken in different contexts of understanding, but I have to question. it's just who I am.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:56 am


I think that what Boltzmann was suggesting was that the earth itself may not exist: that we are not whole people but merely naked brains whose obversations of their universe are false, making all of our memories false.

As the article states, "it’s hard for nature to make a whole universe. It’s much easier to make fragments of one, like planets, yourself maybe in a spacesuit or even — in the most absurd and troubling example — a naked brain floating in space. Nature tends to do what is easiest, from the standpoint of energy and probability. And so these fragments — in particular the brains — would appear far more frequently than real full-fledged universes, or than us. Or they might be us."

I think it is important to note that the article also says that no one actually believes that we are naked brains floating in space. The problem that cosmologists have is in dealing with the logic of Boltzmann's theory. It's true that nature tends to do what is easy. It is also true that making an organized universe with galaxies, solar systems, planets and people is not easy. It is more probable that we don't exist. Yet, we do exist.

It's quite intriguing really. Are we some sort of fluke? Are we the "freaky observers," and not, as cosmologists have always believed, the "ordered observers?" I suppose anything is possible in an infinity!

Kachan36


Calypsophia

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:53 pm


Kachan36
I think that what Boltzmann was suggesting was that the earth itself may not exist: that we are not whole people but merely naked brains whose obversations of their universe are false, making all of our memories false.

As the article states, "it’s hard for nature to make a whole universe. It’s much easier to make fragments of one, like planets, yourself maybe in a spacesuit or even — in the most absurd and troubling example — a naked brain floating in space. Nature tends to do what is easiest, from the standpoint of energy and probability. And so these fragments — in particular the brains — would appear far more frequently than real full-fledged universes, or than us. Or they might be us."

I think it is important to note that the article also says that no one actually believes that we are naked brains floating in space. The problem that cosmologists have is in dealing with the logic of Boltzmann's theory. It's true that nature tends to do what is easy. It is also true that making an organized universe with galaxies, solar systems, planets and people is not easy. It is more probable that we don't exist. Yet, we do exist.

It's quite intriguing really. Are we some sort of fluke? Are we the "freaky observers," and not, as cosmologists have always believed, the "ordered observers?" I suppose anything is possible in an infinity!


I was watching a program on the history channel the other night called Universe, and it seemed to be about different kinds of stars and solar systems. I didnt catch it from the beginning, but from what I saw, the universe didnt necessarily seem to be 'ordered' to me.

at one point, they were talking about what happens when 2 stars collide with each other and how catastrophic the explosion would be. they said that since our galaxy is in a pretty remote part of the universe (not very cluttered), the chances of this happening to our sun is like a billion to one. but that there are areas of space where there are 'star clusters' in which, there are so many stars in relatively close proximities of eachother that the chances of collisions are a lot higher.. saying that in such clusters collisions can tend to happen once every 10,000 years (which is not a long time in terms of the universe).. and they likened it to the chaotic atmosphere of bumper cars or stock car racing.

we say the universe is 'ordered' because that's the way we see things. our brains are geared to put things in order and categorize them. we *look* for order. we see it in nature. but there is some truth to the statement 'there is order in chaos'.. so perhaps it's both? perhaps out of the cosmic chaos, random things happen, and because space is so infinately vast the possibility for random orderliness is there. I dunno.. smile
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:40 am


When we say the universe is ordered, we mean on a much smaller scale. All these atoms are orgranized into planets, stars, solar systems, and galaxies, which follow orderly rules.

At maximum entropy, these atoms would be disorganized, and there wouldn't be any stars or star clusters to create what we see as chaos.

Kachan36


Calypsophia

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:05 pm


Kachan36
When we say the universe is ordered, we mean on a much smaller scale. All these atoms are orgranized into planets, stars, solar systems, and galaxies, which follow orderly rules.

At maximum entropy, these atoms would be disorganized, and there wouldn't be any stars or star clusters to create what we see as chaos.


ah, gotchya! thanx smile
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:23 am


I read and re-read this and all I can say is..... I think my poor little naked brain is numb.... xd

unrequietedCat


Calypsophia

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:58 pm


unrequietedCat
I read and re-read this and all I can say is..... I think my poor little naked brain is numb.... xd


yeah, that's pretty much how I felt LOL
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