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Is there a debate topic in there somewhere?

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What are your opinions, thoughts, or personal beliefs concerning stage magic? Is there some kind of "real" magic that is practiced elsewhere? What exactly is "magic" to us anyhow?

Ahh, quarry.

So, speaking as a skeptic, how do you practice this magick? There's people who claim to have supernatural powers or the ability to read minds, but that doesn't make them verifiable or even plausible. How is this practice of changing/improving situations, conditions, or circumstances in our lives any different than, say, the law of attraction, prayer, or the power of positive thinking?

well, there are plenty of books out there on the subject. just go to a major bookstore. as I said, it's a matter of manipulating energies both within and around each of us. I've yet to encounter or experience anything "supernatural". since all is *within* nature, and since magick works only within accordance to natural law, it is not 'supernatural'.

and it's not different! smile prayer IS an act of magick, tho it's a very very basic act. and yes, the power of positive thinking and earnest belief definately plays a part. if you dont believe in what you're doing, how do you expect it to work? these things are never what people expect them to be. and there is a lot more work and practice to magick in general (the act of visualization, grounding, centering yourself, etc) that I would not presume to go into in depth here. the concepts of 'like attracts like' and 'as above so below' are concepts utilized in understanding how sympathetic magick works (the type of magick most witches use). in essence, there's a lot more to it than asking or hoping some external entity will help you. "the gods" help those who help themselves, so the saying goes.

in the world of wicca and witchcraft, there are also rules or guidelines to follow. 2 of the most important are the Rede that goes 'and ye harm none, do as ye will', and the law of 3 which states whatever evil you do will return to you 3 fold.

but again, I DO stress... wicca and witchcraft are NOT all about magick. these are religious beliefs and a way of life.

that would be up to you to decide. to me there is, because I'm not a buddhist for it doesnt feel right to me. the same with kikou. there are many paths that lead to the same end, and the path of witchcraft is one of them. it utilizes meditation for meditation is simply an altered state of consciousness of which there are many levels. and there are many different types of meditation to achieve different states. some go deeper than others. some meditations are used for what is called grounding, centering, visualization, cleansing... but magick isnt just meditation, you utilize other ways of harnessing and directing energy suited for what you're trying to achieve. meditation is just the start.

no, you cant go around throwing fireballs or lightning. as I said, that kind of thing doesnt exist. you cant ordinarily see these energies. they can be felt tho. energy is there whether you do something with it or not be it positive or negative energy. much like the wind, you cant see it but it can be felt. every person, natural object, and area contains energy. it's these energies that connect everything together in the "web of life", a concept not indigenous to witches, but all spiritual cultures. people call them 'vibes' when they feel them. when they are manipulated you can feel it, and what manifests is the end result of your spell. meditation is a means of tuning into these energies. there is no 'ranking' system in witchcraft in which you learn more as you move up to a next level. in fact, while there are covens, many if not most witches are solitary.

hehe, none of this is 'taboo' to talk about, as I mentioned before there are many books out there on the subject. and I admit, many of them could explain all this a lot better than me lol smile

as I said, I've never come across anything 'supernatural'. I hate to say this about any religion, but honestly.. scientology is a joke as far as I'm concerned and a way to manipulate people and make money. I feel sorry for those people who take it seriously. I've heard how people could cure their depression and such thru electrical techniques. when I heard that I was wary.. seemed to me kinda like old time electric shock therapy, but it didnt sound *completely* out there 'cause I think some of it involves some kind of meditation, which of course is plausible to me. but what REALLY got me was the galactic battle that supposedly took place some many thousands and thousands of years ago between the "evil Xenu" and the Thetans.. which are now inside us. sorry, but I think L. Ron Hubbard got waaay too involved with his sci-fi stories and rather lost touch with reality.

a better example you couldve used wouldve been that of ceremonial magicians. as in those in the OTO (Ordo Templi Orientis). they practice what is generally termed "high magick" as opposed to the witches practice of "low" or "sympathetic magick". they have a ranking system in which the higher you moved up the more secrets you were privy to. I'm not an authority on high magick, but I believe it involves or can involve the conjuring of ancient spirits (daemons) to do their will. they work within the frame of the Kabbalah which is the ancient jewish means of gnosis (knowledge) representing the mystical tree of life, of which I also know very little. if I'm not mistaken, the OTO was created by Alistair Crowley. many acclaimed him to have been the greatest magician of the 20th century, which he may have been.. but he was also a glutton for fame and notoriety and enjoyed shocking people with his words and ways, which diminishes his credibility in my eyes a bit. but it doesnt mean that what he taught didnt work.

yes, it is quite similar to the magick I'm familiar with. it follows along with the saying 'mind over matter', which is another magickal insight. but I dont know of any externally observable examples. I'm not quite sure what you're looking for really. I've already explained that what noticeably manifests is the outcome of the working. you dont see sparks flying from wands or fingertips, you dont see anything tangible or (so far) scientifically measurable. if that's what you're looking for, or angling for some kinda 'proof', you should know that hasnt been able to be done thus far. science tests and measures the physical world, not the spiritual. which is why so many are skeptical or flat out refuse to consider the possibility. the closest I've heard that we've come to something like that is quantum physics, which I admit I know *very* little. all I know, is that it concerns the smaller particles... beyond the atom (which when I was a child was told those were the smallest particles of matter period), and that these particles do not seem to react in the same ways, according to the same rules, as larger ones. that's my basic understanding of quantum physics, and I do feel I should learn more.

if magickal phenomenon could be proven, it would cease to be 'magick'. it would be labeled by science as something else, because the term 'magick' would be considered to be false. it insinuates mystery and fancy and if proven it would not longer be seen as mysterious or fanciful. but hey, a rose by any other name is still a rose, right? maybe someday science will advance to the point where they can prove these things. perhaps the secret lays within quantum physics (which itself is considered quacky by many scientists) which their understanding of is still in it's baby stages.

to be completely honest, I'm not sure how exactly it ties into it, it's really just what I was told. I think that in some way we access these planes of existence in dreams, meditation, intuition, etc. the mind is truly an amazing thing and the depths of the subconscious very mysterious. I think that science and magick run parallel to one another. one is the physical explanation of things, and one the spiritual. both correct, just on different levels.

I dunno.. never say never. who knows what breakthroughs will be made. science has astounded itself before, proving things wrong that were once assumed to be fact. didnt someone once say nothing is impossible, only improbable? cant remember who..