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Help with ~tekureru and ~temorau

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Shokai

PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:33 pm
This is for the lesson I was learning today. For example

Tomodachi ga koohii wo ogate kuremashita (my friend go me coffee)

tomodachi ni koohii wo ogote moraimashita (am not sure on this one >_<)

What I want to know is what is the difference between the two. I know it has to do something with doing something for me or for someone but I am not quite sure >_<" (and if it is not too much trouble please provide meaning for the sentence and correction as I have made a terrible attempt to translate)

and I kind of need help with this:

shirinai hito ga hyaku-en katekuremashita

shirinai hito ni hyaku-en katemoraimashita.

I think it is: the stranger gave me 100 yen?

Arigatou Gozaimasu!!!  
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:20 am
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★★★

The way I understand it, the use of "ni" is to indicate
the reason for doing something. For example:


友達 は 飲みに 喫茶店 行きます
ともだち は コーヒー を のみ に きっさてん に いきます

tomodachi wa koohii o nomi ni kissaten ni ikimasu

[friend is going to the cafe to drink coffee]

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私 は 宿題 を しに 御飯 を 食べに 家 に 帰ります
わたし は しゅくだい を しに ごはん を たべに うち に かえります

watashi wa shukudai wo shi ni gohan o tabe ni uchi ni kaerimasu

[I am going home to do laundry and eat (a meal)]

★★★

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Tenzin Chodron
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chinotenshi

Tipsy Lunatic

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:45 pm
Yay! Funness with "morau" and "kureru"! I hated this in class. XP


Morau is 'to get' or 'to receive' in English.
Kureru is 'to give' in English.
Ogoru is 'to be treated to' in English. Like you treat someone to dinner or visa versa.

The particle "ga" denotes who is the subject, and also who is GIVING in the first example sentence in Shokai's post. "Watashi ga" is removed from the second sentence because it is IMPLIED that the speaker is the subject doing the giving.
The particle "ni" denotes who the speaker was RECEIVING FROM. The particle "kara" can also be used.

So,

"Tomodachi ni koohii wo ogotte moraimashita" will mean "I received being treated to coffee from my friend." Simply put, "I was treated to coffee by my friend."

"Tomodachi ga koohii wo ogotte kuremashita" will mean "My friend gave me the being treated to coffee." Or simply put in English, "My friend treated me to coffee."  
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:22 pm
What would I know..
'ni' seems indeed to be for from/to in this context (it has really lots of meanings.. love particles).
I was taught that 'kureru' is used mainly when you yourself receive something as a good deed. My own thought: seems to have more respect and e.g. morau would be used if you asked the person for it and/or were kind of expecting the gift.. that was my own thought. And yes.. the meanings are as told.

Tomodachi ga watashi ni koohii wo ogate kuremashita (my friend go me coffee)

watashi ga tomodachi ni koohii wo ogote moraimashita (am not sure on this one >_<)

And there's ageru that also means 'to give'.

I'd also guess the sentences
shiranai hito ga hyaku-en katekuremashita.
shiranai hito ni hyaku-en katemoraimashita.
would mean that the stranger borrowed (gave) me 100 yen. If there has to be a difference, I'd think the stranger had more initiative in the first case whereas the second might have included me running around and asking everyone if anyone could please give me that 100yen razz  

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Nagaikami

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:41 pm
*rolls up sleeves* Alright.

I'm going to start with vocab, since many of the words used in these have been transcribed incorrectly or perhaps were misheard when you first heard them said.

おごる (ogoru): to treat (someone to something)
かす (kasu): to lend
あげる (ageru): to give

It seems that these got a bit mangled somewhere along the line. In the sentences about the stranger, you are probably trying to say かしてもらいました/かしてくれました (kashite moraimashita/ kashite kuremashita.) This would be saying that the person lent you 100 yen. Also it looked like
おごる (ogoru) and あげる (ageru) were getting mixed up. Make sure to keep them separate, because you can't use あげる (ageru) in ANY of the sentences listed here, because you are not giving anything to these people. If you wanted to say "I treated my friend to coffee" it would be 「わたしが ともだちに コーヒーを おごって あげました」 (Watashi ga tomodachi ni ko-hi- wo ogotte agemashita.) 


Now, the grammar you're looking for is explained in Chinotenshi's new and improved post (it should be edited sometime tonight.) If you have trouble with her explanation, we'll try explaining it another way. Hurrah for tagteam teaching.  
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