New Paladin Archetype.

[Kelsey MacAilbert]

This is for Pathfinder, and I call it the Undead Avenger.

An Undead Avenger is created when somebody dies and the gods decide that their time has come a bit too soon. Perhaps the Undead Avenger was a powerful champion of good allowed to fight a little bit longer. Perhaps he or she was a murder victim allowed a second chance at life so as to be able to do the gods' work. Perhaps he or she was a repentant evil doer given a chance to prove their new found devotion to the cause of good. These are only a few of the reasons the gods' may choose to create an Undead Avenger.

When an Undead Avenger is created the wounds that killed the individual heal as soon as the individual is away from anybody who would kill him or her a second time and a voice that only the new Undead Avenger can hear explains what has just happened. Although an Undead Avenger is undead, all their organs regain their functions, and an Undead Avenger needs these organs functioning in order to continue living. Unlike most undead, Undead Avengers do need to sleep, eat, breath, and carry out all the other normal functions of a body. For this reason they do not gain the undead type, despite being undead.

An Undead Avenger has the following attributes at 1st level:

Immune to death effects.

If killed cannot be resurrected by any means whatsoever. An Undead Avenger is only given one additional chance at life. Once they die a second time, they are dead permanently.

Gains the same benefits from consecrate and hallow that other undead get from desecrate and unhallow. Is hindered by desecrate and unhallow in the same way other undead are by consecrate and hallow.

Hide from undeath, detect undead, deathwatch, undeath to death, disrupt undead, and similar spells effect them. Use undead line in detect evil spell description when in the area of a detect good spell.

Damaged by unholy water but not by holy water.

Spells with greater than normal effects against undead do not have these effects if the spell has the good descriptor or is cast by a caster of good alignment or who channels positive energy. Healed by positive energy, harmed by negative energy.

Command undead, control undead, halt undead, create undead, and other spells that create or command undead have no effect. Cannot be turned, destroyed, rebuked, commanded, or bolstered by the cleric/paladin power.



Note that the Undead Avenger doesn't get any new powers or lose any Paladin abilities. All it gets is immunity to death effects and resurrection spells and is effected by some things that effect undead. This is because the Undead Avenger is an archetype I see as an alternate origin of the Paladin, not as a new set of abilities for the Paladin.

Opinions? Does it appear balanced? Is it cool? Do it's attributes make sense? Would you allow it if you were DMing?  

[Lord of the Vine]

Sounds cool. Perhaps someone who is an Undead Avenger can reclaim their life once they meet a requirement for whichever god brought them back, or choose to live again fully?  

[Kelsey MacAilbert]

Dion Necurat

Sounds cool. Perhaps someone who is an Undead Avenger can reclaim their life once they meet a requirement for whichever god brought them back, or choose to live again fully?

That's a good idea. Perhaps their life could be returned as a reward for some incredibly good service, at which point all their Undead Avenger levels become regular Paladin levels?

I tweaked it a bit in response to a suggestion on the Paizo messageboards. I was told it doesn't make sense for a level 0 person to become an Undead Avenger, having done nothing in their life to gain the attention of the gods, making it hard to start out as one at 1st level. In response, I tweaked it so that Undead Avengers are created from those who show great promise in the gods' eyes but die before they can fulfill that promise (usually at level 0). They don't have to have actually done anything with their life, the gods' simply have to feel they had the potential to do something. This makes much more sense when starting out at a 1st level Undead Avenger.  

[Lord of the Vine]

I-I-I-O_O-I-I-I

Dion Necurat

Sounds cool. Perhaps someone who is an Undead Avenger can reclaim their life once they meet a requirement for whichever god brought them back, or choose to live again fully?

That's a good idea. Perhaps their life could be returned as a reward for some incredibly good service, at which point all their Undead Avenger levels become regular Paladin levels?

I tweaked it a bit in response to a suggestion on the Paizo messageboards. I was told it doesn't make sense for a level 0 person to become an Undead Avenger, having done nothing in their life to gain the attention of the gods, making it hard to start out as one at 1st level. In response, I tweaked it so that Undead Avengers are created from those who show great promise in the gods' eyes but die before they can fulfill that promise (usually at level 0). They don't have to have actually done anything with their life, the gods' simply have to feel they had the potential to do something. This makes much more sense when starting out at a 1st level Undead Avenger.

I suppose; then again, it might be cooler to have it be a prestige class, where the only requirement is to have at least 1 Paladin level and have died. Same effect, in essence.  

[Kelsey MacAilbert]

Dion Necurat

I-I-I-O_O-I-I-I

Dion Necurat

Sounds cool. Perhaps someone who is an Undead Avenger can reclaim their life once they meet a requirement for whichever god brought them back, or choose to live again fully?

That's a good idea. Perhaps their life could be returned as a reward for some incredibly good service, at which point all their Undead Avenger levels become regular Paladin levels?

I tweaked it a bit in response to a suggestion on the Paizo messageboards. I was told it doesn't make sense for a level 0 person to become an Undead Avenger, having done nothing in their life to gain the attention of the gods, making it hard to start out as one at 1st level. In response, I tweaked it so that Undead Avengers are created from those who show great promise in the gods' eyes but die before they can fulfill that promise (usually at level 0). They don't have to have actually done anything with their life, the gods' simply have to feel they had the potential to do something. This makes much more sense when starting out at a 1st level Undead Avenger.

I suppose; then again, it might be cooler to have it be a prestige class, where the only requirement is to have at least 1 Paladin level and have died. Same effect, in essence.

I guess it would make sense as a prestige class, but I like the thought of being able to start out with it at 1st level, and it doesn't lose or gain any Paladin abilities, it just gets some new attributes, all at 1st level.  

[Lord of the Vine]

I-I-I-O_O-I-I-I

Dion Necurat

I-I-I-O_O-I-I-I

Dion Necurat

Sounds cool. Perhaps someone who is an Undead Avenger can reclaim their life once they meet a requirement for whichever god brought them back, or choose to live again fully?

That's a good idea. Perhaps their life could be returned as a reward for some incredibly good service, at which point all their Undead Avenger levels become regular Paladin levels?

I tweaked it a bit in response to a suggestion on the Paizo messageboards. I was told it doesn't make sense for a level 0 person to become an Undead Avenger, having done nothing in their life to gain the attention of the gods, making it hard to start out as one at 1st level. In response, I tweaked it so that Undead Avengers are created from those who show great promise in the gods' eyes but die before they can fulfill that promise (usually at level 0). They don't have to have actually done anything with their life, the gods' simply have to feel they had the potential to do something. This makes much more sense when starting out at a 1st level Undead Avenger.

I suppose; then again, it might be cooler to have it be a prestige class, where the only requirement is to have at least 1 Paladin level and have died. Same effect, in essence.

I guess it would make sense as a prestige class, but I like the thought of being able to start out with it at 1st level, and it doesn't lose or gain any Paladin abilities, it just gets some new attributes, all at 1st level.

Hmm...perhaps the list of attributes is throwing me off. In simple terms, what does an Undead Avenger get?  

[Kelsey MacAilbert]

Dion Necurat

I-I-I-O_O-I-I-I

Dion Necurat

I-I-I-O_O-I-I-I

Dion Necurat

Sounds cool. Perhaps someone who is an Undead Avenger can reclaim their life once they meet a requirement for whichever god brought them back, or choose to live again fully?

That's a good idea. Perhaps their life could be returned as a reward for some incredibly good service, at which point all their Undead Avenger levels become regular Paladin levels?

I tweaked it a bit in response to a suggestion on the Paizo messageboards. I was told it doesn't make sense for a level 0 person to become an Undead Avenger, having done nothing in their life to gain the attention of the gods, making it hard to start out as one at 1st level. In response, I tweaked it so that Undead Avengers are created from those who show great promise in the gods' eyes but die before they can fulfill that promise (usually at level 0). They don't have to have actually done anything with their life, the gods' simply have to feel they had the potential to do something. This makes much more sense when starting out at a 1st level Undead Avenger.

I suppose; then again, it might be cooler to have it be a prestige class, where the only requirement is to have at least 1 Paladin level and have died. Same effect, in essence.

I guess it would make sense as a prestige class, but I like the thought of being able to start out with it at 1st level, and it doesn't lose or gain any Paladin abilities, it just gets some new attributes, all at 1st level.

Hmm...perhaps the list of attributes is throwing me off. In simple terms, what does an Undead Avenger get?

It is immune to death effects, cannot be resurrected if killed, and some spells that effect undead effect them. All in all, it gets very little. That is because I intend this to be an alternate backstory for how a Paladin gains his or her powers, not an alternate fighting style or ability focus for Paladins.  

[Lord of the Vine]

I-I-I-O_O-I-I-I

Dion Necurat

I-I-I-O_O-I-I-I

Dion Necurat

I-I-I-O_O-I-I-I

Dion Necurat

Sounds cool. Perhaps someone who is an Undead Avenger can reclaim their life once they meet a requirement for whichever god brought them back, or choose to live again fully?

That's a good idea. Perhaps their life could be returned as a reward for some incredibly good service, at which point all their Undead Avenger levels become regular Paladin levels?

I tweaked it a bit in response to a suggestion on the Paizo messageboards. I was told it doesn't make sense for a level 0 person to become an Undead Avenger, having done nothing in their life to gain the attention of the gods, making it hard to start out as one at 1st level. In response, I tweaked it so that Undead Avengers are created from those who show great promise in the gods' eyes but die before they can fulfill that promise (usually at level 0). They don't have to have actually done anything with their life, the gods' simply have to feel they had the potential to do something. This makes much more sense when starting out at a 1st level Undead Avenger.

I suppose; then again, it might be cooler to have it be a prestige class, where the only requirement is to have at least 1 Paladin level and have died. Same effect, in essence.

I guess it would make sense as a prestige class, but I like the thought of being able to start out with it at 1st level, and it doesn't lose or gain any Paladin abilities, it just gets some new attributes, all at 1st level.

Hmm...perhaps the list of attributes is throwing me off. In simple terms, what does an Undead Avenger get?

It is immune to death effects, cannot be resurrected if killed, and some spells that effect undead effect them. All in all, it gets very little. That is because I intend this to be an alternate backstory for how a Paladin gains his or her powers, not an alternate fighting style or ability focus for Paladins.

Ah, gotcha.