Parents not revealing child's sex

[wakusei]

invisible-weirdo

Ok, I wasn't going to post anymore because I've made my view heard, but I have to point out that what's going on here is a legitimate debate. Not everyone has the same views as you and that's fine. Not everyone has views different from you and that's fine too.

In short, don't get butthurt just because you can't get everyone over to your side >.>

Amen, sister.

Not agreeing with you on one mater =/= Narrow-minded.
Labeling/judging those against you solely because they don't share your opinion, though? That's a little closer.  

[Erius zee Dog]

Stupid.

In the end the kid will be at the mercy of the tolerance of everyone else regardless.

The only upside of this scheme is that the kid seems to have parents who are tolerant towards gender confusion or decision, etc.

In my opinion however (which, should I state it, would include many points of the people who oppose this thing, so I wont reiterate) this doesn't outweigh the con of being the odd kid with the strange parents.

Also, gender isn't the only thing people get judged and criticized by. Beliefs, philosophies, etc are a factor as well, often even a bigger one.

Also, also, what about my opinions about Swedes?
They should keep the heritage of the kid a secret too, because I have certain vies about how Swedes should be, and knowing it's heritage, I would feel disappointed if my expectations aren't met.

Like Texas...it's not really a desert with cacti and bull skulls and not everyone drives those big cars with the ox skulls and horns and there aren't oil pipelines everywhere, and not everone has a ranch or is a cowboy.

I was disappointed to find out about that.

Also, they must keep the kids diet a secret.
Vegans get laughed at, carnivores are called brutes, and omnivores are indecisive or gluttonous, wanting to eat all and everything.
Pressure, pressure, pressure.

Also, they must keep the childs tastes in music a secret, if strangers know about it's tastes, they might form an opinion or label the kid in some way.

Etc. pp.

So as others stated (in the same sense, not same words), unless the kid decides to stay true neutral and without identity, it will get feedback from society, and you can't please everyone in the end.

So this method, in my opinion, has only little tradeoff value.  

[Arcanas]

Erius zee Dog

Stupid.



Like Texas...it's not really a desert with cacti and bull skulls and not everyone drives those big cars with the ox skulls and horns and there aren't oil pipelines everywhere, and not everone has a ranch or is a cowboy.

I was disappointed to find out about that.

I am too now...thanks Erius.  

[God-Raped-Me]

Please tell me everyone sings "home on the range" though! If not that then "She'll be coming around the mountain"!!!  

[wakusei]

I was thinking along those lines too, Erius.

Really the parents should keep the child under a sheet to hide its race, too. People are judged on that, too, far too often.

Of course, it would mean the parents should probably be under sheets as well.... And I don't think the parents would go for that. Only the kid should have to undergo this, not themselves. That would be silly.

xp  

[God-Raped-Me]

The kid better never need glasses or braces either. No freckles, no scars. Nothing!

Oh and I really hope the kid doesn't have weird parents because they will be singled out for that too.... Oh wait. Too late. emo  

[Arcanas]

Might as well put the kid in a bubble.  

[wakusei]

But then they will be mocked for being a bubble child!  

[God-Raped-Me]

Not if you paint it so no one can see the kid, and you have to make it so the kid can't talk, that way people will think it's just a bubble walking around!  

[Alarias]

LorienLlewellyn

Alarias

I find it disturbing for people to have reactions like..."very interesting". Kids aren't lab rats. neutral

Just because someone finds something interesting doesn't mean it's an experiment.

No, it doesn't necessarily mean that but, that's the vibe I'm getting from them. Like it's all one big social experiment with "the child" playing the part of the rat. Let's see if "the child" develops psychological issues from this. Let's see how other children will respond to "the child".
They may not be recording notes and making memos or hooking "the child" up to instruments but, all the same they are experimenting with the kid's life to make a statement.

LorienLlewellyn

Alarias

Bunch of hippie BS...I feel bad for "Pop".

It's "hippie BS" to have parents who want their child to find him/herself? I don't think so. I'd say it's hillbilly BS that some people aren't supportive and open minded about it.

rofl hillbilly BS ...love it.

But, more seriously, children don't need their parent's for that. Children are curious and inquisitive and have no difficulty expressing their interests and desires. All the parents need to do is accept their child's choices and be supportive and understanding. The kid will figure things out on his/her own.

Also, please don't group the whole guild in with me. I may be full of hillbilly BS but, most of these guys are fairly open-minded and interested in debating these sorts of things. As a matter of fact, you already have some people in here posting their support of these parents' actions. So, yeah...
No need to get upset or anything. smile

And on a side note, you guys are making me want to watch Bubble Boy lol  

[wakusei]

Alarias

And on a side note, you guys are making me want to watch Bubble Boy lol

Ditto. I also wish to watch a certain episode of Seinfeld now, too....  

[TurtIe Tracks]

O__O Wow, that was a lot of posts.

The thing is people aren't racist in the same way they are sexist. (Most) people don't think of people of different races as being entirely different types of people, but I think most people do think that people of different sexes are entirely different types of people. (I hope that makes sense.) I think it's important to accept who you are, including your racial background, your skin/eye/hair color, and your sex.

So usually you won't (or at least will try not to) base your opinions of people on their eye color (for example). On the other hand people do base their opinions of people on their sex very often. When you can't tell the sex of a person on sight, don't you generally feel like you don't really know them until you find out if they are male or female? If you find out a character in a series is actually not a girl but a boy, or the other way around, (not because they were cross-dressing intentionally) doesn't your view of them change? Whereas if you found out someone was a different race or if you didn't know their race, you probably wouldn't have your view change as much. I was under the impression that Pop's parents don't want people to have their view of Pop based on sex. Pop clearly knows Pop's own sex, Pop will have to accept Pop's sex, and eventually people will come to see Pop's sex, but hopefully by that time they will have developed a view of Pop that is not dependent on Pop's sex.

Sorry that was kind of long an repetitive... I'm not a very good writer. sweatdrop [[ If anything (or many things gonk ) made no sense, I will try to clarify it. ]]  

[wakusei]

TurtIe Tracks

The thing is people aren't racist in the same way they are sexist. (Most) people don't think of people of different races as being entirely different types of people, but I think most people do think that people of different sexes are entirely different types of people. (I hope that makes sense.) I think it's important to accept who you are, including your racial background, your skin/eye/hair color, and your sex.

I get what you're saying, but I don't agree. In my experience, people are judged on race far more than they are their gender.

Even with gender roles, everyone is still accepting of the existence of both men and women. Some men may think women belong in the kitchen or some such nonsense, but they still accept the female sex as a whole.
Racism is much more extreme to the point of genocide. Hitler didn't only kill women, for example...he killed people for being a different race, having different religious beliefs, having a different sexuality than he was.
People are far more judging of those sorts of factors.

To me, it's ridiculous to consider sexual identity such a big issue to go to the extremes these parents are taking when there are far bigger matters they don't seem to care about hiding instead, or at least as well. It just makes them seem very hypocritical.  

[TurtIe Tracks]

Ah, I see. Where I live, people aren't really that racist. (When they are, it's more culturally based than genetically.) As for the genocide, I think most sexist people (I recall some woman wanting to kill all the men on the planet o_O ) do not want to eliminate an entire sex because they think the other sex needs to exist to serve theirs (working in the kitchen kind of thing, also in race with slavery) or because it's clear that the human species cannot survive with only one for obvious reasons.

I'm also not really sure how extreme hiding Pop's gender is... as a baby/toddler you can't really tell anyway (outside of the color-coded clothing haha) so really they just don't answer when people ask. I mean if they went out of their way to do this for many years, that'd be another thing.

Edit: What I meant to say was that I guess how much sense the move makes depends on the situation in the area. I've never gone to Sweden so I'm not exactly sure what it's like there.  

[wakusei]

But if this isn't something they plan to do long-run, then why bother at all? Children don't even start retaining memories until after 3 or 4 so what difference is it going to make if by the time the kid is 3 or 4 they're open about their gender?

Letting your kid pick what they want to wear and play with, and hiding the kid's gender specifically don't have to go together, in my opinion. You can do the first bit without having to do the second.

"Oh, what a cute child, is it a he or a she?"

"A he."

"Oh. He has a Barbie?"

"Yep. We don't care what he plays with."

"Oh, okay."

*kid mindlessly plays not giving a crap about what the adults are talking about*

Seriously. It wouldn't be hard, and it wouldn't make a difference. So to do otherwise just comes across as the parents purposely trying to be sensational or something.

And I would think allowing a boy to play with dolls while also calling him a he would teach the lesson of gender neutrality moreso than letting a boy play with a doll and refusing to tell him his gender. I mean, the kid is gonna start to wonder what's with the secret keeping.... And that can lead to second-guessing themselves.