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 Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:09 pm
Miss Nicolette Strange CJHeth Miss Nicolette Strange CJHeth Mana can suck a c**k for ruining my favourite colour in the eyes of every other lolita ever. Other than that I have little opinion of him. =___=
Excuuuuuuuuuuuuse me?
Back to the topic..... Medium blue. Many a loli feels you can't wear blue unless it's baby blue because it's 'inelegant', then further their argument that it's inelegant because of Mana. It urks me that some people are so closed minded a 'badly dressed band member' can influence their opinion on an entire colour. I fail to see how it is off topic, since you asked for others perspectives on Mana. That is my perspective. The discussion of the pricing of Mana's line is definitely off-topic. This isn't a discussion about his clothing collection. I wasn't talking about the pricing of his clothing line. neutral I was commenting on Mana ruining my favourite shade of blue and how that's the only perception I have on him. I don't give a rat's how much his clothes cost. I can't even fit into them, or any other brands for that matter. If I can't even wear them what is the point of my discussing whether or not they are worth it? Even if that was the topic of conversation, I wouldn't have added anything at all, because it's a dead end topic for me. As for my use of the term 'suck a c**k', well, that's just me. I think you'll find that regardless of my foul mouth I am a very nice person unless you come around and take stabs at me. And since i've seen just as equally bad or worse language come about this guild with no deletion, I was in the assumption that now and again, foul language is fine as long as it's not profuse nor attacking to the users of this forum. And if you think my saying "Mana can suck a c**k" is an attack on you... Well I have no idea what to say to you that wouldn't be a serious 'jab' at you.
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:48 pm
Feel free to burn me at the stake, but as much as I love what he's done for the Lolita fashion I feel like the stuff he wears himself is a bit...gaudy. Also, Malice Mizer's music is so far from my favorites, I wouldn't even illegally download it. The whole view that life is nothing but malice and misery, I think that's just pretty stupid. I'm a complete optimist so stuff that's just like "WELL I HATE LIFE AND IT'S REALLY SAD AND BLAH BLAH BLAH I'M NOT EVEN GOING TO TRY TO MAKE THINGS BETTER" just kinda pisses me off.
I'm a huge fan of blues and stuff that's like "well, a lot of s**t's happened to me and it does suck, but when I sing about it, it starts to get a little better."
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:44 pm
Miss Nicolette Strange The topic of Mana's involvement in the creation of Lolita is obviously a touchy one, so I'm going to put in my two cents with a blasphemous and heretical analogy. Feel free to burn me at the stake.
Mana is like Jesus. Most people don't really believe in him anymore, and the ones that do often turn out to be on the loony side. Lots of young kids believe in him, but the normal ones grow out of it. But almost everyone who knows of him respects him for starting something major, even if they consider him to be a crazy and possibly a corruptor.
Bad, yes? Now it's your turn to share your perspective of the One And Only Mana-Sama. Have at it Disclaimer: This is not an anti-Jesus thread. I am simply comparing his popularity in the "real" world to Mana's in the Lolita world. Please don't start a discussion about whether there is a "Lolita world" in this thread.You're wrong going into this discussion with the idea that Mana created Lolita. It is my opinion that he had a big hand in popularizing it, but he did not create it. I don't even know that that is a real issue. And what exactly do you mean by people "believe in him"? It is my opinion that Mana helped to popularize Lolita a lot. I say this because it doesn't appear that Lolita was as popular in Japan (let alone in other countries) until after the whole "Malice Mizer phenomena" (whatever you will call it). I don't think anyone can really deny that, because I don't think anyone can really say they saw as many people casually walking the streets dressed in Loli back in the days where everyone was listening to Guns n' Roses and Flock of Seagulls, as they do today, post-mizer. Some people say that Mana doesn't really dress Lolita, but I don't see how he is any less Lolita than any other Gothic Lolita (since that seems to be his preferred style). I actually had quite an exhausted conversation about this in the Q&A thread, and would be happy to re-post some of my points. But I suppose the main one would be that he does wear dresses in the Lolita style, it wasn't as popular pre-mizer, and he does wear a lot of makeup, but taking into consideration that Lolita itsself is based on a time where people wore exaggerated, almost theatrical makeup, I don't see how he could be considered "not loli" based on his makeup.
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:51 pm
CJHeth Mana can suck a c**k for ruining my favourite colour in the eyes of every other lolita ever. Other than that I have little opinion of him. A few things: 1. I don't know that mana even wears any lighter colors. Let alone light blues. 2. I don't know that med. blue is "ruined" in the eyes of all other Lolitas. Have you asked them all? Because I actually prefer dresses (and have made a few) in med. blue. 3. I don't know how you can say it is ruined when stores continue to sell dresses in that color. If people truly had the low opinion of it that you claim, I'm sure stores wouldn't continue to carry it, because no one would buy it. 4. Even if some people has begun to dislike med. blue based on something Mana did (what, I don't know), you can't really blame him. It's not Mana's fault that people are irrational to the point that they would suddenly begin to dislike an entire color in lolita just because he didn't "wear it right".
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:58 pm
annai I'm just going to repeat what I had said in a prior thread: I will give credit to Mana for promoting Lolita through his years in Malice Mizer but there's some aspects that just don't seem so great in people's eyes. I still respect Mana some-what but I think my biggest problem are his fans. They're the type of people that are a beginner's to Lolita and when you try to tell them that cosplaying as Mana does not make you automatically Lolita and that they should research a little more they go into hysterics. I've heard so many times "Mana made Lolita and knows more than you do! You're not Lolita if you hate Mana, you're just a b***h". That type of retarded fandom is what made me start to dislike him greatly. I mean if you look at his clothes he has produced some wonderful things such as the Iron gate print line but other things just fail horribly as Lolita. I can say this because I am both Sweet Loli and Gusso so I know about the aspects of his clothes. Also become so fixated on him that they fail to see other great Lolita icons such as Kana, Isobe, Novala, and soo many others. I guess its all on how you see Lolita in a way. Expanding on that I must say that people idolize him through what they see in the Gothic & Lolita Bibles but realistically speaking he isn't like that all of the time. I mean some of his clothes line is good but the majority isn't. Only a handful of times will the people from the street snaps be in Moitie compared to other brands because most of it is not appropriate. My boyfriend was once a die hard Mana fan before I even began to dress Lolita. He loved Mana's skills as a musician and somewhat as a lolita. Soon though he uttered the words, "He traded his guitar for sewing machine how am I suppose to respect that". He said that after a convention when a girl started yelling at me because I had told her it was kind of sad she didn't even know who Kana or Aya was and only knew Mana in the Lolita world. I had shown her a GLB magazine and she said she only cared about Mana. That just irks people. I guess everyone has their opinions in confern to Mana. Overall I don't hate/disrespect him but I do absolutely hate his retarded ItaiLolita fans who give him a bad name. That in a way is what makes me sad, that his fans didn't better him but rather destroyed him sad You do realize that not all of Mana's fans are poser, Lolita-retards, don't you?
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:05 pm
namida_no_chi annai I'm just going to repeat what I had said in a prior thread: I will give credit to Mana for promoting Lolita through his years in Malice Mizer but there's some aspects that just don't seem so great in people's eyes. I still respect Mana some-what but I think my biggest problem are his fans. They're the type of people that are a beginner's to Lolita and when you try to tell them that cosplaying as Mana does not make you automatically Lolita and that they should research a little more they go into hysterics. I've heard so many times "Mana made Lolita and knows more than you do! You're not Lolita if you hate Mana, you're just a b***h". That type of retarded fandom is what made me start to dislike him greatly. I mean if you look at his clothes he has produced some wonderful things such as the Iron gate print line but other things just fail horribly as Lolita. I can say this because I am both Sweet Loli and Gusso so I know about the aspects of his clothes. Also become so fixated on him that they fail to see other great Lolita icons such as Kana, Isobe, Novala, and soo many others. I guess its all on how you see Lolita in a way. Expanding on that I must say that people idolize him through what they see in the Gothic & Lolita Bibles but realistically speaking he isn't like that all of the time. I mean some of his clothes line is good but the majority isn't. Only a handful of times will the people from the street snaps be in Moitie compared to other brands because most of it is not appropriate. My boyfriend was once a die hard Mana fan before I even began to dress Lolita. He loved Mana's skills as a musician and somewhat as a lolita. Soon though he uttered the words, "He traded his guitar for sewing machine how am I suppose to respect that". He said that after a convention when a girl started yelling at me because I had told her it was kind of sad she didn't even know who Kana or Aya was and only knew Mana in the Lolita world. I had shown her a GLB magazine and she said she only cared about Mana. That just irks people. I guess everyone has their opinions in confern to Mana. Overall I don't hate/disrespect him but I do absolutely hate his retarded ItaiLolita fans who give him a bad name. That in a way is what makes me sad, that his fans didn't better him but rather destroyed him sad You do realize that not all of Mana's fans are poser, Lolita-retards, don't you?
She's only talking about those who are lolitards. Not every Mana fan.
-...quand le soleil sera couché dans ton âme froide.-
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:51 am
namida_no_chi CJHeth Mana can suck a c**k for ruining my favourite colour in the eyes of every other lolita ever. Other than that I have little opinion of him. A few things: 1. I don't know that mana even wears any lighter colors. Let alone light blues. 2. I don't know that med. blue is "ruined" in the eyes of all other Lolitas. Have you asked them all? Because I actually prefer dresses (and have made a few) in med. blue. 3. I don't know how you can say it is ruined when stores continue to sell dresses in that color. If people truly had the low opinion of it that you claim, I'm sure stores wouldn't continue to carry it, because no one would buy it. 4. Even if some people has begun to dislike med. blue based on something Mana did (what, I don't know), you can't really blame him. It's not Mana's fault that people are irrational to the point that they would suddenly begin to dislike an entire color in lolita just because he didn't "wear it right". Sarcasm is pretty lost on you guys isn't it? neutral 1. If you had seen my follow up, you'd note that I noted light blue is the only blue accepted by many a loli. 2. That was sarcasm to make my point. 3. I would assume because even if most lolis don't like it, goths and Mana fans are probably really into his stuff. Since Mana's line seems to be the only line that makes dresses using any blue but varying shades of cotton candy blue, or the occasional navy (usually sailor loli) with any considerable consistancy, there ya go. 4. That was sarcasm to make my point. ----------------------- Also, regarding your point that Mana popularized Loli, I wouldn't say it was entirely his doing, or even really that largely. Another thing that got a big start between the 90's and now, was the internet, which is where I and at least 400 other people I am aware of learned about loli, via a link on a forum I frequent asking wtf was up with lolis. While I would say Mana is probably a lot of peoples first exposure to loli, many a site touting Mana makes no mention of Loli and just random pictures of a guy in a frilly dress doesn't give one much to go on. While I would definitely admit the first Loli I ever saw was Mana, I had no idea it was a clothing style. I just thought he was a Vis-Kei artist and those were his stage costumes. So while I would agree a lot of Mana fans switched over to loli via him, if you're not a Mana fan (and a lot of people aren't), you probably wouldn't make that jump. Remember if you will, that the internet has made a many of us privy to things we weren't before the invention of the internet. Good (Anime, Loli, online roleplaying groups via IRC, etc etc), or bad (horrible shock sites I won't name as to not give anyone nightmares, Fred Phelps, etc etc)
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:36 am
Amanikitty namida_no_chi annai I'm just going to repeat what I had said in a prior thread: I will give credit to Mana for promoting Lolita through his years in Malice Mizer but there's some aspects that just don't seem so great in people's eyes. I still respect Mana some-what but I think my biggest problem are his fans. They're the type of people that are a beginner's to Lolita and when you try to tell them that cosplaying as Mana does not make you automatically Lolita and that they should research a little more they go into hysterics. I've heard so many times "Mana made Lolita and knows more than you do! You're not Lolita if you hate Mana, you're just a b***h". That type of retarded fandom is what made me start to dislike him greatly. I mean if you look at his clothes he has produced some wonderful things such as the Iron gate print line but other things just fail horribly as Lolita. I can say this because I am both Sweet Loli and Gusso so I know about the aspects of his clothes. Also become so fixated on him that they fail to see other great Lolita icons such as Kana, Isobe, Novala, and soo many others. I guess its all on how you see Lolita in a way. Expanding on that I must say that people idolize him through what they see in the Gothic & Lolita Bibles but realistically speaking he isn't like that all of the time. I mean some of his clothes line is good but the majority isn't. Only a handful of times will the people from the street snaps be in Moitie compared to other brands because most of it is not appropriate. My boyfriend was once a die hard Mana fan before I even began to dress Lolita. He loved Mana's skills as a musician and somewhat as a lolita. Soon though he uttered the words, "He traded his guitar for sewing machine how am I suppose to respect that". He said that after a convention when a girl started yelling at me because I had told her it was kind of sad she didn't even know who Kana or Aya was and only knew Mana in the Lolita world. I had shown her a GLB magazine and she said she only cared about Mana. That just irks people. I guess everyone has their opinions in confern to Mana. Overall I don't hate/disrespect him but I do absolutely hate his retarded ItaiLolita fans who give him a bad name. That in a way is what makes me sad, that his fans didn't better him but rather destroyed him sad You do realize that not all of Mana's fans are poser, Lolita-retards, don't you?
She's only talking about those who are lolitards. Not every Mana fan.
-...quand le soleil sera couché dans ton âme froide.- As Amani said I was only talking about the lolitards and not everyone. If you actually go back in the thread there was people that said that thankfully they liked Mana and they weren't like that so my response was I love you guys for that.
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:28 pm
annai Amanikitty namida_no_chi annai I'm just going to repeat what I had said in a prior thread: I will give credit to Mana for promoting Lolita through his years in Malice Mizer but there's some aspects that just don't seem so great in people's eyes. I still respect Mana some-what but I think my biggest problem are his fans. They're the type of people that are a beginner's to Lolita and when you try to tell them that cosplaying as Mana does not make you automatically Lolita and that they should research a little more they go into hysterics. I've heard so many times "Mana made Lolita and knows more than you do! You're not Lolita if you hate Mana, you're just a b***h". That type of retarded fandom is what made me start to dislike him greatly. I mean if you look at his clothes he has produced some wonderful things such as the Iron gate print line but other things just fail horribly as Lolita. I can say this because I am both Sweet Loli and Gusso so I know about the aspects of his clothes. Also become so fixated on him that they fail to see other great Lolita icons such as Kana, Isobe, Novala, and soo many others. I guess its all on how you see Lolita in a way. Expanding on that I must say that people idolize him through what they see in the Gothic & Lolita Bibles but realistically speaking he isn't like that all of the time. I mean some of his clothes line is good but the majority isn't. Only a handful of times will the people from the street snaps be in Moitie compared to other brands because most of it is not appropriate. My boyfriend was once a die hard Mana fan before I even began to dress Lolita. He loved Mana's skills as a musician and somewhat as a lolita. Soon though he uttered the words, "He traded his guitar for sewing machine how am I suppose to respect that". He said that after a convention when a girl started yelling at me because I had told her it was kind of sad she didn't even know who Kana or Aya was and only knew Mana in the Lolita world. I had shown her a GLB magazine and she said she only cared about Mana. That just irks people. I guess everyone has their opinions in confern to Mana. Overall I don't hate/disrespect him but I do absolutely hate his retarded ItaiLolita fans who give him a bad name. That in a way is what makes me sad, that his fans didn't better him but rather destroyed him sad You do realize that not all of Mana's fans are poser, Lolita-retards, don't you?
She's only talking about those who are lolitards. Not every Mana fan.
-...quand le soleil sera couché dans ton âme froide.- As Amani said I was only talking about the lolitards and not everyone. If you actually go back in the thread there was people that said that thankfully they liked Mana and they weren't like that so my response was I love you guys for that. I figured you were, and though I haven't read then entire thread, I just thought you sounded as though you were throwing all Mana fans into the same category. I myself am fond of Mana in some ways (so iIsuppose you would call me a fan). But I do really think a lot of people go overboard with the whole idolizing of Mana, and using him to give J-rock, Loli, VK, and Japan a bad name. (i.e. the sorts of fans who just spring Mana up on people saying things like,"Look, it's actually a guy! He's Japanese, a lot of guys over there dress like that!" etc.)
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:18 pm
CJHeth namida_no_chi CJHeth Mana can suck a c**k for ruining my favourite colour in the eyes of every other lolita ever. Other than that I have little opinion of him. A few things: 1. I don't know that mana even wears any lighter colors. Let alone light blues. 2. I don't know that med. blue is "ruined" in the eyes of all other Lolitas. Have you asked them all? Because I actually prefer dresses (and have made a few) in med. blue. 3. I don't know how you can say it is ruined when stores continue to sell dresses in that color. If people truly had the low opinion of it that you claim, I'm sure stores wouldn't continue to carry it, because no one would buy it. 4. Even if some people has begun to dislike med. blue based on something Mana did (what, I don't know), you can't really blame him. It's not Mana's fault that people are irrational to the point that they would suddenly begin to dislike an entire color in lolita just because he didn't "wear it right". Sarcasm is pretty lost on you guys isn't it? neutral 1. If you had seen my follow up, you'd note that I noted light blue is the only blue accepted by many a loli. 2. That was sarcasm to make my point. 3. I would assume because even if most lolis don't like it, goths and Mana fans are probably really into his stuff. Since Mana's line seems to be the only line that makes dresses using any blue but varying shades of cotton candy blue, or the occasional navy (usually sailor loli) with any considerable consistancy, there ya go. 4. That was sarcasm to make my point. ----------------------- Also, regarding your point that Mana popularized Loli, I wouldn't say it was entirely his doing, or even really that largely. Another thing that got a big start between the 90's and now, was the internet, which is where I and at least 400 other people I am aware of learned about loli, via a link on a forum I frequent asking wtf was up with lolis. While I would say Mana is probably a lot of peoples first exposure to loli, many a site touting Mana makes no mention of Loli and just random pictures of a guy in a frilly dress doesn't give one much to go on. While I would definitely admit the first Loli I ever saw was Mana, I had no idea it was a clothing style. I just thought he was a Vis-Kei artist and those were his stage costumes. So while I would agree a lot of Mana fans switched over to loli via him, if you're not a Mana fan (and a lot of people aren't), you probably wouldn't make that jump. Remember if you will, that the internet has made a many of us privy to things we weren't before the invention of the internet. Good (Anime, Loli, online roleplaying groups via IRC, etc etc), or bad (horrible shock sites I won't name as to not give anyone nightmares, Fred Phelps, etc etc) 1. I did see your follow up. Sorry for not being more specific (although you'll notice I did say med. blue throughout the rest of my previous post), but I don't recall Mana ever wearing any medium blues either. He typically wears darker colors form what I've seen. 2. Yes, I figured it was. But is the sarcasm in proportion to the situation? 3. So just because Mana's line uses anything but baby blue-ish colors, you think all Lolitas hate med. blue now? That honestly doesn't make any sense. Moi meme Moite is a popular Lolita brand. You'll notice that many of the other popular brands aside from the aristocrat-type brands don't really do a lot of Gothic Lolita (like BTSSB, AP, BL, IW, MM, VM, MA. MTdF etc), which would warrant medium blues. That doesn't mean Lolitas in general have outcast medium blue. Plus aren't most of Mana's cloths still in darker colors, even darker than medium blue? 4. I still don't see why you would say that he ruined a color. _____________ I never said it was entirely his doing, but I do believe he played a big role in it then, and even today (as you said yourself, he is a lot of people's first exposure to Lolita). I also think the internet's main role in popularizing Lolita has been for people who do not live in Japan. Because it does also seem to me that Lolita was fairly popular about mid-mizer, when the internet was first becoming main stream, and Mizer fans often showed up to concerts and such dressed in loli. But like I said before, even to this day, you acknowledge that Mana is a lot of people's first exposure to Lolita. Is that not also a form of popularizing? Not that I'm defending random websites which idolize Mana, but you also have to consider that being Lolita is not all that Mana is. It's not like fans of Mana are somehow obligated to tell people about Lolita just because Mana wears it. And if they don't, that doesn't make them bad fans. If the point of these websites is Mana, I don't see why they should give an exploratory of Lolita. The whole point is that if you like the cloths he wears, you research and find out just what it is (which that information is also readily accessable through the internet). Learning that Lolita is not just VK is all part of a learning process. It's not anyone's fault that people with no prior knowledge of any Japanese fashion don't know that fact right off. And again, it's not Mana's fault that some people may not like him and therefore, will not be fond of Lolita. Like so many people have emphasized in this thread, Mana is human. He can't make everyone like him. He dresses Lolita. If people don't like him because of his style, or because of him, it's not his fault, and its definitely not his fault if these people turn a blind eye to Lolita. It's not like its his job to get people tuned on to Lolita, nor can he control people's opinions. He is not a supernatural being xd
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:49 pm
MinaMouse Feel free to burn me at the stake, but as much as I love what he's done for the Lolita fashion I feel like the stuff he wears himself is a bit...gaudy. Also, Malice Mizer's music is so far from my favorites, I wouldn't even illegally download it. The whole view that life is nothing but malice and misery, I think that's just pretty stupid. I'm a complete optimist so stuff that's just like "WELL I HATE LIFE AND IT'S REALLY SAD AND BLAH BLAH BLAH I'M NOT EVEN GOING TO TRY TO MAKE THINGS BETTER" just kinda pisses me off.
I'm a huge fan of blues and stuff that's like "well, a lot of s**t's happened to me and it does suck, but when I sing about it, it starts to get a little better."
I think its safe to say you haven't listened to some of Malice Mizer's best songs, let alone looked at their lyrics. Its not all "Oh woe is me, malice and misery." A lot of the songs (before Klaha, anyway) were actually quite happy and cheerful. Some of my favourite MM songs are ones like Ma Cherie, Brise, and Ju te Veux. Brise is a very happy and up-beat sounding song, but the lyrics are magnificent... to me, anyway. "I reach out to you and bring you closer to me in the sky. Together we dance. I bring you closer and together we dance. Show me your beautiful face on this silent night." I'm not saying you have to like Malice Mizer or listen to them or read the lyrics... but I am kind of asking you to realize they weren't an emo-ie goth-ie "life sucks so why live it?" kind of band.
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:48 am
namida_no_chi 1. I did see your follow up. Sorry for not being more specific (although you'll notice I did say med. blue throughout the rest of my previous post), but I don't recall Mana ever wearing any medium blues either. He typically wears darker colors form what I've seen. 2. Yes, I figured it was. But is the sarcasm in proportion to the situation? 3. So just because Mana's line uses anything but baby blue-ish colors, you think all Lolitas hate med. blue now? That honestly doesn't make any sense. Moi meme Moite is a popular Lolita brand. You'll notice that many of the other popular brands aside from the aristocrat-type brands don't really do a lot of Gothic Lolita (like BTSSB, AP, BL, IW, MM, VM, MA. MTdF etc), which would warrant medium blues. That doesn't mean Lolitas in general have outcast medium blue. Plus aren't most of Mana's cloths still in darker colors, even darker than medium blue? 4. I still don't see why you would say that he ruined a color. _____________ I never said it was entirely his doing, but I do believe he played a big role in it then, and even today (as you said yourself, he is a lot of people's first exposure to Lolita). I also think the internet's main role in popularizing Lolita has been for people who do not live in Japan. Because it does also seem to me that Lolita was fairly popular about mid-mizer, when the internet was first becoming main stream, and Mizer fans often showed up to concerts and such dressed in loli. But like I said before, even to this day, you acknowledge that Mana is a lot of people's first exposure to Lolita. Is that not also a form of popularizing? Not that I'm defending random websites which idolize Mana, but you also have to consider that being Lolita is not all that Mana is. It's not like fans of Mana are somehow obligated to tell people about Lolita just because Mana wears it. And if they don't, that doesn't make them bad fans. If the point of these websites is Mana, I don't see why they should give an exploratory of Lolita. The whole point is that if you like the cloths he wears, you research and find out just what it is (which that information is also readily accessable through the internet). Learning that Lolita is not just VK is all part of a learning process. It's not anyone's fault that people with no prior knowledge of any Japanese fashion don't know that fact right off. And again, it's not Mana's fault that some people may not like him and therefore, will not be fond of Lolita. Like so many people have emphasized in this thread, Mana is human. He can't make everyone like him. He dresses Lolita. If people don't like him because of his style, or because of him, it's not his fault, and its definitely not his fault if these people turn a blind eye to Lolita. It's not like its his job to get people tuned on to Lolita, nor can he control people's opinions. He is not a supernatural being xd I have no idea where this post is going as a lot of points you made are completely unrelated to what I am speaking on,and you seem to be jumping to a lot of conclusions based on 'hints' (?) you've 'garnered' from what I said. The only thing I can think to say is to reiterate I was being sarcastic about something that miffs me a wee bit. There's really not much more to explain to it.
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:37 pm
CJHeth namida_no_chi 1. I did see your follow up. Sorry for not being more specific (although you'll notice I did say med. blue throughout the rest of my previous post), but I don't recall Mana ever wearing any medium blues either. He typically wears darker colors form what I've seen. 2. Yes, I figured it was. But is the sarcasm in proportion to the situation? 3. So just because Mana's line uses anything but baby blue-ish colors, you think all Lolitas hate med. blue now? That honestly doesn't make any sense. Moi meme Moite is a popular Lolita brand. You'll notice that many of the other popular brands aside from the aristocrat-type brands don't really do a lot of Gothic Lolita (like BTSSB, AP, BL, IW, MM, VM, MA. MTdF etc), which would warrant medium blues. That doesn't mean Lolitas in general have outcast medium blue. Plus aren't most of Mana's cloths still in darker colors, even darker than medium blue? 4. I still don't see why you would say that he ruined a color. _____________ I never said it was entirely his doing, but I do believe he played a big role in it then, and even today (as you said yourself, he is a lot of people's first exposure to Lolita). I also think the internet's main role in popularizing Lolita has been for people who do not live in Japan. Because it does also seem to me that Lolita was fairly popular about mid-mizer, when the internet was first becoming main stream, and Mizer fans often showed up to concerts and such dressed in loli. But like I said before, even to this day, you acknowledge that Mana is a lot of people's first exposure to Lolita. Is that not also a form of popularizing? Not that I'm defending random websites which idolize Mana, but you also have to consider that being Lolita is not all that Mana is. It's not like fans of Mana are somehow obligated to tell people about Lolita just because Mana wears it. And if they don't, that doesn't make them bad fans. If the point of these websites is Mana, I don't see why they should give an exploratory of Lolita. The whole point is that if you like the cloths he wears, you research and find out just what it is (which that information is also readily accessable through the internet). Learning that Lolita is not just VK is all part of a learning process. It's not anyone's fault that people with no prior knowledge of any Japanese fashion don't know that fact right off. And again, it's not Mana's fault that some people may not like him and therefore, will not be fond of Lolita. Like so many people have emphasized in this thread, Mana is human. He can't make everyone like him. He dresses Lolita. If people don't like him because of his style, or because of him, it's not his fault, and its definitely not his fault if these people turn a blind eye to Lolita. It's not like its his job to get people tuned on to Lolita, nor can he control people's opinions. He is not a supernatural being xd I have no idea where this post is going as a lot of points you made are completely unrelated to what I am speaking on,and you seem to be jumping to a lot of conclusions based on 'hints' (?) you've 'garnered' from what I said. The only thing I can think to say is to reiterate I was being sarcastic about something that miffs me a wee bit. There's really not much more to explain to it. Then one of the main bullet points you could take away would be "I still don't see why you would say that he 'ruined' a color". Based on what you originally said, I don't see that either Mana has 'ruined' any colors in any way, nor that anyone dislikes any colors based on something he did. Second bullet point pretaining to what you said all about his 'popularizing' being,"He is still popularizing it to this day, but it is not his fault some people decide to not like Lolita or remain Loli-tards because he is their first (and sometimes only) exposure to Loli."
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:49 pm
Namida, CJ, just drop it already?
This was a freaking thread created from sarcasm. Just shut up, okay? This is just getting boring.
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:48 pm
Blackberry Sage Namida, CJ, just drop it already?
This was a freaking thread created from sarcasm. Just shut up, okay? This is just getting boring. I just did. I said I had nothing more to say. How is that not dropping it? neutral
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