medical bills

[ree turn]

Kecitich

reetika kakkar

i do not consume eggs or milk.

then you are almost a vegan smile I am happy for you emotion_hug What makes you calling yourself a vegetarian instead of vegan?

i do consume certain milk products like yogurt or cheese sometimes  

[Kecitich]

Oh I see smile Try some alternatives if is within reach in your local area. They taste very good but a bit more expensive though...  

[Ebania]

Kecitich

Oh I see smile Try some alternatives if is within reach in your local area. They taste very good but a bit more expensive though...

I had some vegan quesadillas on Monday night, made with a vegan cheese substitute. They were delicious! And the cheese substitute cost just a bit more than regular cheese -- but nothing substantial.  

[Kecitich]

That's awesome Ebony 3nodding

Thank you for speaking out about substitutes. We all human beings are quite smart, we can imitate the textures of all sort of things. I had stir-fried shrimps and squids less than 2 weeks ago from a vegetarian restaurant. We asked for another take away same dish after the meal.





(I asked to make sure there wasn't any eggs or dairy products in those dishes I ordered...)

no squids no shrimps were killed, and yet we can still have a delicious dish that taste even better than the "real thing" rofl a vegan version price are about the same as the "real dead animals meat" version  

[Ebania]

Kecitich

That looks so delicious!

Where are you from, Kecitech? Just curious! I'm from Texas, but I live in Illinois.  

[Kecitich]

I live in China, Macau.

There are 3 vegetarian restaurants near my home. Is there near yours, Ebony?

I have never ate or seen anyone ate dogs or cats meat in my city lol But those horror video on youtube about selling dogs and cats for their meats in open market are disgusting...


From where I am living they cut the fish open in front of customers at fish market.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxQu1gV7b7c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifezH0-ZR0g (she is not me smile but it's a cool video)

you pick the chicken they kill it right in front of you.

Of course there are supermarkets with frozen ones ready for you to pick up and cook them.  

[Victoria Whitechapel]

I have tried some vegetarian food it was okay I still say I prefer meat and as far as meat being bad for you my Granddaddy eats steak once a week and plenty of other meat he is 90 years old and still works on his car and does his own yard work. My Great Grand Mother also quite the meat eater she lived to be 99 Years old and died peacefully in her sleep with out any major health problems her whole life. It is how you live your life how much exercise you get and how active you are that keeps you healthy. biggrin  

[Kecitich]

It's great to hear from you again Victoria Whitechapel, I am happy you gave them a try.

I've heard that one before, we all do. It's great your grandparents has long lifespan. My grandparents who both eat meat in "normal" amount weekly also are still living. They are at their mid 80's (one of them have minor heart problems recent years, the other one has type 2 diabetes for almost 30 years) . Consider this... back when they were small and young adult, the injected hormones, growth hormones and pesticides (from their grains and coins) inside those meat they ate are way less than those in our meat nowadays...

I agree we also have to do exercises and be active to be healthy if we want to live our elderly live without illness.

Victoria, would you mind give some more try on different vegan/vegetarian restaurants when you will have time if you are still willing to (if not it's alright! I wish I could dine with you to some of my local restaurants in real life!) smile One fail meal doesn't mean all failed. and one good doesn't mean all good heart Just saying the options are out there, many people are still don't know we can eat vegan version of chicken, steak, shrimps, fish...

At lunch time and dinner time, the whole restaurants seats are fully packed. Families, lots of young adults (I am a young adult too). The sights of full seated vegetarian restaurants make me optimistic about the future. emotion_awesome Whenever I visit there we have to wait for tables if we don't come early  

[TheAnneh]

Let me preface this: I eat meat. Meat is good for the human body! Incredible amounts of red and fatty meat can be bad, especially for people with heart problems. But meat itself is not bad.

This is what I really want to say, and this is important. Just because doctors make money from helping people does not mean that they do not care. Most doctors become doctors for that reason. It is their job and therefore they get paid. It frustrates me that people think this way.

This thought process is that drive people to alternative medicine, which has either been not proven to work or proven not to work. This distrust is what leads to people not getting the triple jab vaccine for their children based on no real evidence, leading to higher incidents of childhood diseases and death. This is what leads to people turning to religion instead of medicine, leading to all too many incidents of families praying to a god over their child, while they die in front of them of an easily preventable or curable disease.

Doctors. Hospitals. They are here to help. They aren't evil.

 

[Kecitich]

TheAnneh

Let me preface this: I eat meat. Meat is good for the human body! Incredible amounts of red and fatty meat can be bad, especially for people with heart problems. But meat itself is not bad.

This is what I really want to say, and this is important. Just because doctors make money from helping people does not mean that they do not care. Most doctors become doctors for that reason. It is their job and therefore they get paid. It frustrates me that people think this way.

This thought process is that drive people to alternative medicine, which has either been not proven to work or proven not to work. This distrust is what leads to people not getting the triple jab vaccine for their children based on no real evidence, leading to higher incidents of childhood diseases and death. This is what leads to people turning to religion instead of medicine, leading to all too many incidents of families praying to a god over their child, while they die in front of them of an easily preventable or curable disease.

Doctors. Hospitals. They are here to help. They aren't evil.

TheAnneh, hello. It quite is sad that you thought I said something that I didn't said. Never hinted nor said all doctors and hospitals are evil. I said the government and the health care system are bad. Many doctors care about their patients (by not encourage patients eat meat and more eggs and animal milk). Like I said one bad doesn't mean all bad, one good doesn't mean all good. There are always some good and bad on everything. Not all vegans are illness free, all depends on how they live their lives and things that they choose to eat.

When our bodies need medicines/operation (for type 2 diabetes, heart attacks, high cholesterol lead to high risk of having stroke and blood clogging, intestines cancers, osteoporosis, tumors) we only have ourselves to blame for the way we live our lives. Simply by changing our diets to what we are suppose to eat will not only prevent those and will not require further medicines and doctors' help.

Money to slaughters, doctors, meat & dairy companies Or Money to farmers and markets that sell fruits veggies. The more we buy fruits and veggies, markets stock more of those frequently. Simple as that.

Tell me the daily amount of meat is recommended even by normal standard set by health cares of government around the globe?? 1 potion of meat. . Even if you follow their "guideline". That's still very little amount of meat vs 5 potions vegetables and 2 potions of fruits.

Our bodies are belongs to ours, we don't take good care of our bodies by eating wrong things, who will care?  

[Victoria Whitechapel]

So please correct me if I am wrong but you are saying that the US and UK Governments are controlling the stock market by encouraging their citizens to eat meat and dairy products? So if a Doctor tells you to eat meat he is bad? Well considering that my family is from the UK and I live in the US I disagree with your opinion. The US economy is very dependent on it's farmers we sell wheat and corn and other veges around the world. So to say our Governments are bad and that they are purposely telling the people to eat as you call it poison meat is wrong. I understand that you are a vegetarian and that is great for you but the fact is for every report or Doctor who says that meat is bad there is one that says it is not. I have not been brainwashed into eating meat I assure you I eat it because I like it plain and simple. I understand you feel passionate about this and I am happy for you but as in all things the truth usually lies in the middle. smile  

[TheAnneh]

Kecitich

- Most health cares are mostly a big joke. Especially to those doctors who say they care about their patients. They want money by not promote enough what's harmful for us. Instead they promote those harmful things and label them as healthy.

That is what you said. Word for word. This was not a specific reference, but a sweeping generalization. Also, as I will talk about later, you make another claim that show your utter slant against doctors. I am not thinking you said something you did not say. From now on, I will quote you and other sources directly.

I have never had a doctor promote anything harmful to me. Ever.

Also, I very much resent the notion that illness is our fault for putting the "wrong things" in our bodies. First of all, diet is only part of the equation. Exercise is, from my experience, the most important factor in losing weight and maintaining a healthy life-style (My experience being formerly fat and losing quite a bit of weight through time, exercise, and a small amount of diet change. Being a college student does not allow much budget for food). Your numbers don't account for age, race, or economic standing, which has been shown to be a huge factor in obesity and diet.

nyu.edu

African-American, American Indian and Hispanic-American women have the highest risk of becoming overweight, according to the Centers for Disease Control. Only one minority group, Asian Americans, has a lower rate of obesity than the general population.

In fact, the results of a national study released in 1996 show that more than half of all African-American and Hispanic women in the United States are already above what is considered a healthy body weight.

nyu.edu

Recent research shows that social class measured by income and education can be more powerful than genetics in predicting future health problems, including obesity.

nyu.edu

"Being of low social status can put someone under chronic stress... People with less education tend to have jobs with a lot of responsibility and less control." She explained that a head of a company may experience a high level of job related stress but would have more choices and control over the situation and that, in turn, alleviates stress overall. A day laborer, however, has little control over the stress of daily life.

Yahoo.com

Now, we all know that poverty itself is not a cause of obesity. In fact, stress and depression are not causes of obesity either. However, all of these factors, including poverty, have an effect on eating behavior and exercise practices.

Seattle times

Yet today, the obesity remedies most often recommended for Americans in general — eating healthfully and exercising — are difficult for many low-income families, Drewnowski said.

It can be hard to exercise in inner cities, where the streets may be too dangerous after working hours. Many groceries in low-income neighborhoods don't stock expensive fresh produce. And people who work two or three jobs have little time to make home-cooked meals.

"I don't want to take focus away from the serious racial and ethnic disparities in health," Robinson said.

I believe you are ignoring a very big, very important part of the equation.

It is also very slanted to say...

Kecitich

Money to slaughters, doctors, meat & dairy companies Or Money to farmers and markets that sell fruits veggies.

I don't care about your opinions on slaughter houses. I don't care about your opinions on dairy farms. You are lumping doctors in with people who kill animals. Not only that, you are implying that I cannot buy fruit and vegetable and meat and go to the doctor. This is obviously a wrong assumption as I happen to give my money to a mixture of all of these things. Failing that, you are implying that doctors are unnecessary if we eat fruits and vegetables. This is a statement that is obviously untrue and unsubstantiated. This is also another statement that shows your obvious bias, for whatever reason, against doctors. Again I say, doctors are not bad.

And yes, I would rather give my money to a doctor.

Also, this is very important.

Kecitich

When our bodies need medicines/operation (for type 2 diabetes, heart attacks, high cholesterol lead to high risk of having stroke and blood clogging, intestines, cancers, osteoporosis, tumors) we only have ourselves to blame for the way we live our lives. Simply by changing our diets to what we are suppose to eat will not only prevent those and will not require further medicines and doctors' help.

Do not. I repeat, do not ever say that cancer is the fault of the person with the disease. This is not true. It never was true. This is throwing years of research on cancer in the faces of those who are suffering from a disease that ruins lives. It is not a "life-style" disease.

You are throwing out very unsubstantiated, unsupported, and very inflammatory claims. A few numbers is not enough evidence for most, if not all, of the things you are saying. Costs of health care is not enough evidence to claim the health industry is bad. You lump doctors in with slaughter houses. You say cancer patients and people with tumors just need a lifestyle change.

You seem to be promoting a vegan life-style, and, save one statement that you contradict in the same paragraph, that being vegan will remove the need for doctors. This is untrue.

 

[Ebania]

I just wanted to toss in a response to the "cancer being the fault of the patient" thing.

I don't think that Kecitich is trying to say that cancer is anyone's fault, but rather, that there definitely is a correlation between the nutritional value of what we consume and how long and how well we live. Obesity, disease, early death among people in lower socio-economic brackets is no accident. Food that is processed, greasy, and empty in nutritional value (even french fries, which are vegan, fit into this category) is cheap and easy to access, and let's face it: these people probably don't know any better.

The notion that our diet is an essential part to our health and wellbeing is ancient, dating back to Hippocrates, who preached "let food be thy medicine." If exercise helped you, Annie, that's fantastic, and I'm happy for you. But my father, one of the most passionate athletes I know, was on a bad path a few years ago; he was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes, he had a high cholesterol level, high blood sugar, was tired all the time, constantly stressed. One a molecular level, these factors hurt the cells in our bodies, wearing down the ends of our chromosomes during cell division and thus making us age faster. The parts of our bodies are not isolated; when one part is sick, the whole being is sick. This is why men with heart and circulatory problems caused by obesity, for example, struggle with erectile dysfunction, black/mucous stool, etc. It's all interrelated.

I have learned that cancer is not something you're born with. You can be predisposed to developing cancer, but there are things you can do to lessen your chances of doing so. For example: avoiding toxic/radioactive sites, sleeping well, and eating well. I'm not trying to convince you that veganism is necessarily the only well to go about doing the latter, but rather, that the idea that what we eat is our medicine was true 2,000 years ago and still is now.  

[Kecitich]

Victoria Whitechapel

So please correct me if I am wrong but you are saying that the US and UK Governments are controlling the stock market by encouraging their citizens to eat meat and dairy products? smile

Nope, stock market and advice citizens to eat some meat and dairy in their diets are different matters which I didn't think I linked them together.

Victoria Whitechapel

So if a Doctor tells you to eat meat he is bad? smile

In my opinion that doctor could has be misinformed / funded to talk like that / deep down he wants his patients to visit him more / covering the truth / he simply doesn't know. All in all it's teaching the patients to use wrong methods to treat their illness is not a good doctor. It's hard to put it into a clear prospective label anyone as bad or good (which I did labeled them as bad, sorry my bad, if only I had been more clear...) because I simply don't know their reasons behind spreading things that aren't truth. Victoria as you could already seen, my one sentence that isn't clear enough provoked all these "I don't care your this and that opinions" from TheAnneh.

Victoria Whitechapel

Well considering that my family is from the UK and I live in the US I disagree with your opinion. The US economy is very dependent on it's farmers we sell wheat and corn and other veges around the world. So to say our Governments are bad and that they are purposely telling the people to eat as you call it poison meat is wrong. I understand that you are a vegetarian and that is great for you but the fact is for every report or Doctor who says that meat is bad there is one that says it is not. I have not been brainwashed into eating meat I assure you I eat it because I like it plain and simple. I understand you feel passionate about this and I am happy for you but as in all things the truth usually lies in the middle. smile

Victoria, the wheat, soy, crops and sweet corns which farmers produced everywhere around the world, almost half of them are being used to feed farm animals instead of people...

Are you really thinking you haven't been brainwashed into eating meat? We all were educated "it's okay to eat meat and its right to eat meat for our bodies" from the day we were born, at schools, at home (most families eat meat, mine too), at hospitals, restaurants, televisions, radio, friend's parents. We simply was told it is alright and acceptable since were day 1 we've started wanting to learn food.

I am quoting this following from Gary Yourofsky website:

Quote:

I began to ask, "Who taught me that animals were put on this Earth for food? Who taught me to disrespect animals and view them as mere commodities? Who stole my compassion, my empathy and my conscience? Who lied to me? Who instilled this vicious mindset of human-to-animal exploitation as standard operating procedure?"

Thank you Victoria, we disagree on certain things but at least you respect the way I look at things and happy for me. mrgreen

And thank you Ebony the Peacian

TheAnneh, I am sorry you got misunderstood what I said because what I said wasn't clear. It's mostly my fault I am sorry. I said those doctors that say they care about their patients but not promote enough what's harmful for us, instead promote those harmful things and label them as healthy. They want money.  

[Victoria Whitechapel]

I see how you might think we are brain washed but have you ever considered that you might be? Think about this it could be argued that vegetarians really just do not want to kill animals. That I can understand but I think since vegetarians cannot convince enough people to become one based on that they simply say it is unhealthy so they cook up (no pun intended) a bunch of stuff about how meat is killing you so maybe they can convince more people. So then they go around saying that the whole world is wrong and all Doctors are wrong in hopes that people will come around to there way of thinking. Like I have said before you can find Doctors who support your point of view and I can find Doctors who do not. The difference between you and I is I can see your side and respect it but you just think I am brainwashed. So no offence but I think I will go with the Majority on this one I am Healthy and not overweight at all so I see no need to change my diet.