Corset Question

[Dema]

in SCA terms a corset and a bodice are different, a corset was worn underneath clothing(any kind of clothing) for probably posture and deffinetly for the curves and cleavage and a bodice was worn over the top of the corset. This way the bodice didn't have to be wrenched on as hard when being laced so it lasted longer LOL. Corsets were usually plain white and the bodices were the frilly, pretty things you see.  

[Silver Mist]

Yes, corsets and bodices are both period to the SCA technically. Elizabethan England commonly used both. Lower classes wore just a bodie, with minimal boning ( meaning about 8-10 pieces for the average size woman), and a nobels wore back lacing corsets beneath their clothing, then a bodice over top.

Bodices were frequently incredible plain due to the simple fact that they were worn by lower classes. Corsets were covered in silk and often had blackwork embrodery down the front. They were nearly always white.

Corsets were also worn by the upper classes of German culture in the late 1500's as well. I can not recall if the lower classes wore them or not, I can ask my friends in the lanckenechts (sp?) about that.  

[KW-NichtCrawler]

Naito_Mitsukai

*I moved this from the garb thread! xd it didn't really belong there*


I was wondering - does anyone have any solid evidence of corset use pre-renaissance?

I have some - but I'm not sure how solid it is.


'Medieval Costume and Fashion' by Herbert Norris
Speaks of corseting, and even front-lacing corseting around the 1100's
and reffers to this picture

The bottom left-hand side - is supposed to be a figure of the devil.
" 'Her waist was so fine your hands could have girdled her.'
From an old French love song of the twelfth century." (quoted from 'Medieval Costume and Fashion' by Herbert Norris)

There's some more infromation in the book on this, but not much.

And I just wanted to know if anyone else had any evidence - because in my little shire there's one or two people who say "teeeeeeechnecally corests aren't period" etc etc (always in a way that makes you feel guilty, but they don't TELL you that you can't wear it) stare

But I wanted to attempt to make a corset like what's drawn in this book *there's a small illistration* And wear it to events. But I hate not being period!! You know?


Any suggestions? (or any suggestions on corset patters - where to find them, what material to use?) Would be much appreciated! heart 3nodding

All I have to say is that Bodices are worn on the outside and corsets and undergarments. Unless you are a trollop or maybe a pirate or gypsy. Wearing a corset on the inside was correct. So that is me being nice. My mate will not take so much of a nice stance on this bot she and I believe in period if by information only. She will have more to say about this.  

[Snaebjorn]

I'm a nazi ok. When it comes to clothing I aim a nazi. Including the fabrics. Corsets are period according to the research my wife (who makes garb and has for several years as a merchant) has done back to the 13th century and clean through.  

[Dea Mariella]

ok...technically, the SCA goes from 1100-1600. These are the official dates. And (I forget who posted the Tudor women) that is classic Renaissance, not Medieval, although still allowable. The majority of people in the SCA don't really care about the exact timeperiod...although you're not allowed to wear a kirtle and a farthingale together kind of thing. It just doesn't work.

To the not caring about time period...I saw a woman at Pennsic in classic Greek clothing!

Another poster (I apologize for my terrible memory), made a comment about common women wearing a bodie. Technically, all women wore a pair or bodies. If you actually read the Arnold book, instead of just looking at pictures (I'm really not pointing fingers! The woman who inducted me in proper costuming had "ideas") you'll get a more accurate picture.

Ok...this has now turned into a rant...sorry...but I'll be the first to admit to wearing proper Italian Ren to my prom...red and black velvet all the way folks!

Dea-chan

Yet again...sorry for the speech...  

[Snaebjorn]

600-1600. You better check the main website again. Your missing 5 centuries covered by the SCA time period. In fact it says "from the fall of Rome until 1600"  

[KW-NichtCrawler]

In fact you are both wrong, to be technical. Maybe you should read it before correcting someone.
It is any time up till the 1600 A.D. Which means all time. We just primarily focus on: Western European High Middle Ages. I have seen loin and paint. Which means your persona would had to have visited European countries, not have to be born there. This is the better way to reference something. Point it out directly from the site.

http://www.sca.org/sca-intro.html

Where did the SCA come from?
The avowed purpose of the SCA is the study and recreation of the European Middle Ages, its crafts, sciences, arts, traditions, literature, etc. The SCA "period" is defined to be Western civilization before 1600 AD, concentrating on the Western European High Middle Ages. Under the aegis of the SCA we study dance, calligraphy, martial arts, cooking, metalwork, stained glass, costuming, literature... well, if they did it, somebody in the SCA does it (Except die of the Plague!).  

[Chibbi_Satan]

Yeah, I have to agree with Keeper. I was just on the website and I don't see where you got the 600 mark. It says "1600 AD, concentrating on the Western European High Middle Ages." whee
Can you give us a link to where you found that? Cuz if thats the case, it would prove ONCE AGAIN what I keep saying to everyone who ever asks the time period question:
"Its 500-ish to 1600-ish. Its supposed to be centered towards more western european middle ages. But these are more just 'guidelines' rather then regulation...." sweatdrop  

[Chibbi_Satan]

Oh, and Snaebjorn, whoever DID write the bit between "from the fall of Rome until 1600", was badly mistaken.

The decline of the Roman Empire, also called the fall of the Roman Empire, is a historical term of periodization that describes the collapse of the Western Roman Empire. Edward Gibbon in his famous study The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (1776) was the first to use this terminology, but he was neither the first nor the last to speculate on why and when the Empire collapsed. It remains one of the greatest historical questions, and has a tradition rich in scholarly interest. In 1984, German professor Alexander Demandt published a collection of 210 theories on why Rome fell.

The traditional date of the fall of the Roman Empire is September 4, 476 when Romulus Augustus, the de jure Emperor of the Western Roman Empire was deposed by Odoacer. Many historians question this date, noting that the Eastern Roman Empire continued until the Fall of Constantinople in 29 May 1453. Some other notable dates are the death of Theodosius I in 395, that last time the Roman Empire was unified, the crossing of the Rhine in 406 by Germanic tribes, after the withdrawal of the legions in order to defend Italy against Alaric I, and the death of Stilicho in 408, followed by the disintegration of the western legions. Many scholars maintain that rather than a simplistic "fall", the changes can more accurately be described as a complex transformation. Over time many theories have been proposed on why the Empire fell, or whether indeed it fell at all. sweatdrop  

[Snaebjorn]

By the term "fall of rome" they are saying from about the 5th or 6th century onward. As to whether Rome fell or not isn't my concern.  

[Chibbi_Satan]

Snaebjorn

By the term "fall of rome" they are saying from about the 5th or 6th century onward. As to whether Rome fell or not isn't my concern.

ok...but you don't need to get snappy. stare And as I asked before, where is the link?  

[KW-NichtCrawler]

I see nothing solid on those dates, snaebjorn. Not to mention that it is vague as you get, two centuries.....  

[Snaebjorn]

Ok. You want vague. Read the SCA mission statement ok. Thats why my statements are vague, they are based on the ones written there.

All it says in the governing documents is pre 17th century and that our focus is "European Middle ages and Reinassance"  

[Dema]

keeper_of_pain

In fact you are both wrong, to be technical. Maybe you should read it before correcting someone.
It is any time up till the 1600 A.D. Which means all time. We just primarily focus on: Western European High Middle Ages. I have seen loin and paint. Which means your persona would had to have visited European countries, not have to be born there. This is the better way to reference something. Point it out directly from the site.

http://www.sca.org/sca-intro.html

Where did the SCA come from?
The avowed purpose of the SCA is the study and recreation of the European Middle Ages, its crafts, sciences, arts, traditions, literature, etc. The SCA "period" is defined to be Western civilization before 1600 AD, concentrating on the Western European High Middle Ages. Under the aegis of the SCA we study dance, calligraphy, martial arts, cooking, metalwork, stained glass, costuming, literature... well, if they did it, somebody in the SCA does it (Except die of the Plague!).

Good thing you didn't say "get scurvy" cuz Mick has had it twice HAHAHA. He truly is a Pirate ^_^  

[KW-NichtCrawler]

Mission Statement:
The fundamental goals are: To present opportunities of organized, FUN activities and socializing at events which enables the participants to pursue their own dreams, developing their interests and to learn the many facets and skills of medieval life.

Is all I find and that is from the pages.

Show me a link my friend you have nothing to back up your statements.