After much deliberation, I decided I will reply to you here.
CountessValpolicella
My main point was that this post was all about helping that person who was talking about suicide...but instead you decided to attack three people who were only trying to help him.
That was
my form of helping. I corrected (which we're commanded to do). I offered verses in order to deliver fellow believers from the lies of the devil. We
can lose salvation. We
can lose the Holy Spirit (directly relevant to what Red Wight asked). It is helpful for him to know it. Knowing the whole truth of Scripture is comforting. You're using words like "attack" as if my reply was violent in nature, yet it wasn't. Lengthy? Yes, as most explanations tend to be. But I wasn't attacking anyone personally.
Ephesians 6:12-16 (NIV)
12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
2 Corinthians 10:5 (NIV)
5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
Every argument that runs contrary to God's Word, and to what Christ taught, needs to be corrected.
CountessValpolicella
1. You spoke about "Zech. 10:2 speak deceitful ...about dreams that are false". That doesn't help your cause to be rude to people. They did help him because they spoke about their own experiences and they were helpful because they spoke from their hearts.
Reviewing what I wrote, I do not see rudeness. I did not say their whole post was false. I did not question the sincerity of their suffering and dealings with depression. I noted an error, one single error, from the entirety of their post. I singled it out and explained it so that they, and Red Wight, would not (or would no longer) be deceived by it.
Speaking with sincerity is all fine and dandy, but error is not—no matter how genuinely believed it is. If God says, "go right" and people are saying, "go left", is it rude to tell people, "actually no, he said go right"? No, it's not rude at all.
To claim that anyone has been helpful to Red Wight is a bit premature to say; he has not replied at all to the thread. And at the end of the day, if 90% of the post was truth and a single lie that leads astray was mixed in (that salvation can't be lost, and that the Holy Spirit can't be lost), that little lie renders the post NOT helpful in the long run. Be careful what you say. We will be judged for every word we speak and what our words lead others to believe.
Matthew 12:36-37 (KJV)
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Matthew 18:6 (NIV)
6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
Again, leading baby believers astray or into sin is a big offense in God's eyes. That is what I'm interested in preventing.
CountessValpolicella
2. You spoke about "false teachers and false prophets". No one was a being a false teacher or prophet. Someone who is a false teacher is one who willfully deceives someone. They did not do that.
Actually, yes, whenever something deviates from scripture, a lie is being taught and a false teacher is in the midst (or at least their doctrine is in the midst). The totality of scriptures clearly show that salvation can be lost, the Holy Spirit too. To teach the opposite is false teaching. Anyone teaching "you can never lose salvation", "you can never lose the Holy Spirit" would, by definition, be a false teacher.
NOT all false teachers / false prophets willfully deceive:
1 Kings 22:23-24 (NIV)
23 “So now the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster for you.”
24 Then Zedekiah son of Kenaanah went up and slapped Micaiah in the face. “Which way did the spirit from[a] the Lord go when he went from me to speak to you?” he asked.
Footnotes:
a. 1 Kings 22:24 Or Spirit of
Zedekiah thought he was a prophet of the Holy God of Israel and Micaiah comes along and says, "actually...you have a deceiving spirit in you". Zedekiah didn't know.
CountessValpolicella
3. You spoke about leading the sheep astray. Jesus was talking about Pastors leading their flock astray and referring to false teachers.
Again, No one was doing that.Joseph Prince taught something false. Starry taught something false. So did Countess Verona. Erroneous statements lead astray. They were erroneous because the totality of scripture paints a different picture.
CountessValpolicella
4. You spoke about the Sadducees and Pharisees... they criticized Jesus when He healed someone on the Sabbath. They did not care that He healed the poor man they just wanted to find something to critique Jesus. Isn't that what you are doing? You are being critical not helpful and rude not loving.
No, it's not what I'm doing. Jesus did not heal with error. Jesus, when he spotted error in religious people, would correct them. He'd call them a brood of vipers (Matthew 23:33). Jesus called someone a name, and I haven't, yet you go so far as to say I'm being rude when I haven't even gone to that level. Jesus would call out their ignorance, as I previously quoted; he'd straight up tell people, "you don't know the scriptures". Are you going to call Jesus rude? Because I haven't done anything he wouldn't (and in fact, I've held back: I haven't called anyone here a snake nor a child of the devil, the latter of which he did in John 8:44).
CountessValpolicella
5. Why did you talk about me being "offended" or "Joseph Prince". I wasn't offended...and I did not talk about J.P.
It was a question. And I mistook you for Countess Verona since you have very similar usernames.
CountessValpolicella
6. You talk about correcting people? If someone is in great error that would hinder their mortal soul or if they are in danger of sinning then you may correct them in love. Not attack them...
don't go through posts looking for theological debates to argue. Correcting in love is exactly what I did and yet you're perceiving it as an attack for some reason. And actually, to be able to correct, yes, we do go through posts, diligently reading what other believers are saying in our midst. This isn't a theological debate. There was error, that does lead astray, it was exposed. End of story. You're drawing this out for no reason based on a false perception of "attacking". I didn't attack a single individual in this thread.
CountessValpolicella
I will repeat myself...
The Bible says that we are to avoid debating theological errors and not quarrel with each other and not "look" for things to argue.
"But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless." Titus 3:9
I read it just fine the first time. And you're trying to distort this verse to suggest "theological errors" are never to be corrected. Which I showed you, from an example of Jesus no less, where he does call out error. I'm not quarreling or "looking" for things to argue. If I spot an error, that will lead a new/old believer wrong or lead them to stay in sins, I will call it out. None of the information I offered about the Holy Spirit was "foolish controversy", "unprofitable", or "useless". And like I also stated, we need to be able to correct at any time, anywhere, in season, out of season (2 Timothy 4:2).
CountessValpolicella
"How is it that you fail to perceive that I did not speak about bread? Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." Then they understood that He did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees." (Matthew 16:11-12 RSV)Just as yeast causes bread to rise, yeast was sometimes used as a symbol of sinful pride which made people haughty and “puffed up."
Just like there's a "leaven" of the Pharisees, there is a "leaven" of God's Kingdom
Luke 13:20-21 (KJV)
20 And again he said, Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God?
21 It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
More accurately, "leaven" is "teaching". Teaching of the Pharisees or the teaching from heaven. The very verses you quoted tell you as well, Jesus was warning of "
the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees", a.k.a. the doctrines of the religious authorities of the time which showed ignorance of the Scriptures and of God's power (Matthew 22:29; Mark 12:24). There are doctrines that are very popular and "authoritative" in the church right now that are leading people astray. And when it is being offered to Red Wight, a new believer who may not be able to detect it, I will not stand for it.
CountessValpolicella
It is better to help people with a loving heart than criticize them with a haughty heart. Think of it this way, are you helping someone’s relationship with God or are you wanting recognition of your Bible knowledge and your own accomplishments?
Honestly, I have no clue why you're interpreting what I wrote as coming from a haughty place. Error is not something I take lightly; it has real consequences on a believer's walk. God inspired certain details to be included in the scriptures for our safety. Everything that I bother to write in this guild
is about safeguarding others' relationships with God.
CountessValpolicella
If you feel led to be a teacher then teach.
Post in a separate thread about what you think people should know.
No. That is illogical. If an error was posted, directed at another person, and that error could influence anyone else reading that
specific thread (including, but not limited to, the person the reply was directed towards), the correction belongs in that same thread. Why are you reducing this to a "theological" stance? as if variance in the message is acceptable? We're suppose to be of one mind. Two opposite statements ("can lose Holy spirit" vs "can't lose Holy Spirit") cannot be true at the same time—and if the OP is asking precisely about that, the reply belongs in the OP's thread.
CountessValpolicella
Don't critique someone's post, it will only make them NOT want to post in this guild.
You're asking not to correct anyone, ever. Because ultimately, I did not critique their whole post. I noticed an erroneous claim and called it out so Red Wight wouldn't believe the lie that apparently the person who posted it also fell for. What you interpret as an attack on three people, was an act of deliverance from the hands of Satan's lies, a lie which wound up in your heads through compromised teachers unstably handling the word of God.
I've been a part of the guild for a while and this is what I do. I will make no promises to shut up if/when I see something contrary to scripture. If it endangers the spiritual health of others, I will call it out.
1 John 4:1 (NIV)
4 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Acts 17:11 (NIV)
11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
Titus 1:9 (NIV)
9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.
If you still feel that I haven't sufficiently explained my intentions, feel free to PM me.
