Clearly Consensual

[Chieftain Twilight]

Lady Rose of the North

Chieftain Twilight

this, this, this. great advice. I've often said that people too often make the mistake of thinking that Love and Sex are the same and Love is distinct from Friendship, when the reality is that Love and Friendship are the same and Love is distinct from Sex.

if you aren't best friends with your romantic partner, you are not in Love.

Absolutely! I have been in love with people, and have had wonderful romantic relationships with them without having a sexual relationship whatsoever.

And I have definitely had sexual relationships where I cared about them, but that was the main basis of our relationship, there was little to no romantic relationship.

I really like you. smile your values and experiences seem to mirror my own. will you accept my Friend Request?  

[Alyx Rodanthe]

Chieftain Twilight

I really like you. smile your values and experiences seem to mirror my own. will you accept my Friend Request?

Of course! I love making new friends! smile  

[Chieftain Twilight]

Lady Rose of the North

Chieftain Twilight

I really like you. smile your values and experiences seem to mirror my own. will you accept my Friend Request?

Of course! I love making new friends! smile

I'm so glad. thankyou! ^_^  

[Noble Legolas]

Dawww you guys heart

I hope you don't dislike me for my different approach though....

Chieftain Twilight

DANGER! DANGER!

seriously, you should always be discussing, thinking about, and asking questions about these sorts of things! eek ignorance can and will cause problems. it can and will hurt people. it can and will lead to pain, trouble, and harm.

also, trust matters, whether monogamous or polyamorous. it matters whether anonymous or well-known (but I really don't recommend anonymous). and it matters whether casual or committed.

without trust, you are just plain not prepared to have sex with your partner(s). it is one of the necessary components of a safe, sane, consentual bedtime romp. it's more important than condoms!

... because when I read this reply, I think I need to nuance my previous post. You raise me a red danger flag there, but what actually I'm doing is being very protective of myself and others.

I don't base my relationship on trust anymore. I've been through enough to know it's an illusion. So I let it all go and base my relationship now on having fun and making sure I'm protected just in case.

In addition to that, I took my previous not so great experiences and gave it a positive twist. I live and learn, you know? I see now the benefits in cheating. If he's happy, he'll be a better lover for me. Having an open relationship is the best idea I got so far. It was such a relief not having to stress about it anymore. Now, we openly tell each other our adventures and have the best time in the world. Polyamory soon came in the picture and gave us both a boost.

We're both not very romantic. We work hard, party hard and love being around our 'friends with benefits'. Not having to check on one and other made our lives richer then ever.

I don't reject your lifestyle at all, I just hope for a less negative approach towards mine from you.  

[Chieftain Twilight]

Mulien

Dawww you guys heart

I hope you don't dislike me for my different approach though....

Chieftain Twilight

DANGER! DANGER!

seriously, you should always be discussing, thinking about, and asking questions about these sorts of things! eek ignorance can and will cause problems. it can and will hurt people. it can and will lead to pain, trouble, and harm.

also, trust matters, whether monogamous or polyamorous. it matters whether anonymous or well-known (but I really don't recommend anonymous). and it matters whether casual or committed.

without trust, you are just plain not prepared to have sex with your partner(s). it is one of the necessary components of a safe, sane, consentual bedtime romp. it's more important than condoms!

... because when I read this reply, I think I need to nuance my previous post. You raise me a red danger flag there, but what actually I'm doing is being very protective of myself and others.

I don't base my relationship on trust anymore. I've been through enough to know it's an illusion. So I let it all go and base my relationship now on having fun and making sure I'm protected just in case.

In addition to that, I took my previous not so great experiences and gave it a positive twist. I live and learn, you know? I see now the benefits in cheating. If he's happy, he'll be a better lover for me. Having an open relationship is the best idea I got so far. It was such a relief not having to stress about it anymore. Now, we openly tell each other our adventures and have the best time in the world. Polyamory soon came in the picture and gave us both a boost.

We're both not very romantic. We work hard, party hard and love being around our 'friends with benefits'. Not having to check on one and other made our lives richer then ever.

I don't reject your lifestyle at all, I just hope for a less negative approach towards mine from you.

Poly and cheating are not the same thing. neither you nor him are cheating if you are open and honest about the fact that you both have more than one romantic and/or sexual partner. this is what's referred to as ethical non-monogamy. which is what this guild is about. it's not th esame as cheating.

now, I dissaprove of your value system. I'm not gonna budge on that. I have no intention of forcing you to live by different values than you have, but I will voice my opinion and give my reasons. I think of this as advice. that's as far as I will go with it.

thing is, relationships without trust are inherently dangerous. you'll find that out on your own, even if you don't heed my warning. I do think you are wrong about trust. sure, it isn't easy to find someone who you can actually really trust in the world... it seems like fewer and fewer people are trustworthy. this is the sort of behavior that is encouraged by our society.

but that is exactly why I feel that building relationships takes time and hard work. people rush into things far too quickly, and always end up getting hurt when they do. I've certainly done it. building Trust is something needs to be done before getting involved with someone romantically and/or sexually. and that takes a long time. that's why Love is Friendship -- because Love is Trust. it's something that you don't just get overnight. you have to put alot of hard work into it over a very long time. just like gardening.

it's fine that your sex life is separate from your love life. I don't understand or recommend an aromantic life. but I know that some people just plain aren't even capable of falling in love. it does make me uncomfortable, though.

and it seems that in your case, it's just a matter of being jaded. you don't think anybody cares about anyone else, or that so few people do that it isn't worth trusting anybody? I don't dislike you, I more... pity you.

and I do dislike your choices. but they aren't my choices to make.

it's when they infringe on other peoples' rights, safety, and disrespect their consent that I feel the need to speak up.

as long as you adjust your life to consider consent and don't violate other peoples' autonomy, we won't have a problem. but that doesn't mean I will view your choices positively. I have certain values and experiences that I cannot ignore. it's ok if we don't agree.  

[Noble Legolas]

Chieftain Twilight

Poly and cheating are not the same thing. neither you nor him are cheating if you are open and honest about the fact that you both have more than one romantic and/or sexual partner. this is what's referred to as ethical non-monogamy. which is what this guild is about. it's not th esame as cheating.

As I was trying to explain, My relationship has evolved from monogamy to polyamorous through different stages. No, it's not the same thing at all, but polamory is usually not something people decide to do overnight. Perhaps my next relationship (if there is ever gonna be a next) will probably go different and more open about this subject from the start. There's no need explaining to me what the difference is.

Chieftain Twilight

now, I dissaprove of your value system. I'm not gonna budge on that. I have no intention of forcing you to live by different values than you have, but I will voice my opinion and give my reasons. I think of this as advice. that's as far as I will go with it.

Fair enough I appreaciate that wink

Chieftain Twilight

thing is, relationships without trust are inherently dangerous. you'll find that out on your own, even if you don't heed my warning.

I'm no danger to anyone. And I'm in my thirties. Don't take me for a fool, thank you. These matters are as serious to me as they are to you. Telling me I am a danger to anyone, while I'm probably the most loving and caring person you'll ever meet, is just rude and offensive.

Chieftain Twilight

I do think you are wrong about trust. sure, it isn't easy to find someone who you can actually really trust in the world... it seems like fewer and fewer people are trustworthy. this is the sort of behavior that is encouraged by our society.

but that is exactly why I feel that building relationships takes time and hard work. people rush into things far too quickly, and always end up getting hurt when they do. I've certainly done it. building Trust is something needs to be done before getting involved with someone romantically and/or sexually. and that takes a long time. that's why Love is Friendship -- because Love is Trust. it's something that you don't just get overnight. you have to put alot of hard work into it over a very long time. just like gardening.

Me and my bf have been together for 9 years and we love each other to pieces. We never get into a fight, because we both understand the meaning of a good conversation and talk our way out of trouble. We respect each others points of view and you might wanna back out slowly before you judge us.

Chieftain Twilight

it's fine that your sex life is separate from your love life. I don't understand or recommend an aromantic life. but I know that some people just plain aren't even capable of falling in love. it does make me uncomfortable, though.

Chieftain Twilight

and it seems that in your case, it's just a matter of being jaded. you don't think anybody cares about anyone else, or that so few people do that it isn't worth trusting anybody? I don't dislike you, I more... pity you.

Just back up... slowly!

Chieftain Twilight

and I do dislike your choices. but they aren't my choices to make.

it's when they infringe on other peoples' rights, safety, and disrespect their consent that I feel the need to speak up.

as long as you adjust your life to consider consent and don't violate other peoples' autonomy, we won't have a problem. but that doesn't mean I will view your choices positively. I have certain values and experiences that I cannot ignore. it's ok if we don't agree.

And this is the most disturbing of all: How exactly do I infringe on other peoples' rights, safety, and disrespect their consent? I don't think I need to adjust my life, I think you need to adjust your brutality.

If I'm not mistaken, I am the only one here using protection for the safety of not just myself, but also for everyone else. Now who's the danger hazard here? Not me.


I have lots of respect for everyones choices. And that's exactly why I use protection. I won't claim anyone to be mine. Because that's just not my decision to make. If anyone wants to be it, I'm supercool with that. But I have no expectations from anyone. Because must and expect are words I'm allergic to. Live and let live. And a little respect to one and other would be much appreaciated.  

[Alyx Rodanthe]

Mulien

Chieftain Twilight

thing is, relationships without trust are inherently dangerous. you'll find that out on your own, even if you don't heed my warning.

I'm no danger to anyone.

I don't think he necessarily meant that you were the danger. The relationships themselves can be very unstable without trust, and as such dangerous for everyone involved.

Mulien

If I'm not mistaken, I am the only one here using protection for the safety of not just myself, but also for everyone else. Now who's the danger hazard here? Not me.

I use protection with new partners for the safety of all involved. Say I am in an established relationship with [M]. [M] begins a relationship of a sexual nature with who is in an established relationship with [T] and [R]. And for the sake of argument, let's say at this same time, I begin a relationship with [L] who happens to also be involved with [R]. If one person neglects protection or regular STD testing, that's 5 other people (if not more) who are exposed should one person contract something. This is for the health and safety for all involved. If someone refuses to undergo routine testing, or informs one of us that they practice unsafe sex, then protection is used with that person at all times.

However, I generally don't participate in casual play, and consider myself polyfidelitous. I don't take on new partners without informing my other partners, I always use protection with new partners and continue to do so if they indulge in a lot of casual, NSA, or otherwise potentially "unsafe" practices, and this is all for the safety and well-being of not only my partners, but their partners, and any partners they may have.  

[Oxyria]

Chief, I'm just gonna say you got a little condescending and preachy there.
There wasn't anything said that was dismissing dialogue or trust, just that in the actual moment, sometimes the best thing to do is just square away the basic stuff and make sure you're protected. Good call.
It's true that we can't always know what's going on with everyone we're involved with (especially if it's casual), so if there are some rules around safety that are just followed no matter what, that's probably for the best.

For myself I sleep with quite a few people, not all of whom I know very well before hand. I have lovers, I have close friends who I sometimes sleep with, and then sometimes there are some people I sleep with very casually. I'm less inclined toward casual hook ups than I used to be, but really I'm a slut and a bush worker (what else am I going to do out there?). Safety is always a thing, and I make sure I'm careful and I get tested regularly. I communicate this with everyone even though I know I don't have complete control over it. I use protection and I do my best. It's worked so far.



I appreciate this thread. It seems basic but it requires a lot of consciousness.

Whenever I'm with someone new I ask a lot of questions, and do a lot of checking in to see where the person is at, and I really appreciate when people do the same with me. This is true in bed, and also just generally.

As far as kink stuff goes, I pretty much never get into it with anyone other than someone who's either a close friend with benefits, or someone who I've been with for a while. I think it's probably a safe bet to leave that until a little later when you're more comfortable with a partner (of whatever sort).  

[Noble Legolas]

Lady Rose of the North

Mulien

Chieftain Twilight

thing is, relationships without trust are inherently dangerous. you'll find that out on your own, even if you don't heed my warning.

I'm no danger to anyone.

I don't think he necessarily meant that you were the danger. The relationships themselves can be very unstable without trust, and as such dangerous for everyone involved.

If that's what conceirns you, I can ease your doubts. I'm in the most stable relationship imaginable. Even my friends and family come to me to tell me that. Quite a few of them have come to me to ask how the heck we're pulling that of.
Our relationship is not build on trusting in each other. It has a strong foundation in self-confidence. For example: I strongly believe I am the best thing that ever happened to him and there's probably no woman out there who can give him a better and more relaxed life then I can provide. Therefore I'm totally confident he'll love me and will get back to me as soon as he sobered up lol mrgreen
I just give him all the time and space he needs to explore his own sexuality, just as he allows me to do the same.

Lady Rose of the North

Mulien

If I'm not mistaken, I am the only one here using protection for the safety of not just myself, but also for everyone else. Now who's the danger hazard here? Not me.

I use protection with new partners for the safety of all involved. Say I am in an established relationship with [M]. [M] begins a relationship of a sexual nature with who is in an established relationship with [T] and [R]. And for the sake of argument, let's say at this same time, I begin a relationship with [L] who happens to also be involved with [R]. If one person neglects protection or regular STD testing, that's 5 other people (if not more) who are exposed should one person contract something. This is for the health and safety for all involved. If someone refuses to undergo routine testing, or informs one of us that they practice unsafe sex, then protection is used with that person at all times.

However, I generally don't participate in casual play, and consider myself polyfidelitous. I don't take on new partners without informing my other partners, I always use protection with new partners and continue to do so if they indulge in a lot of casual, NSA, or otherwise potentially "unsafe" practices, and this is all for the safety and well-being of not only my partners, but their partners, and any partners they may have.

That makes perfect sense. If you don't hesitate to tell each other what you've been up to, it's quite as safe as using protection all the time I guess.
I however like to snoop around a bit, even though it's a 'legal' thing to do in my relationship. Just as I liked cigarettes better when I was 15 and secretly did it to hide it from my mom redface It's just more exciting to me. So in that light, I can't be trusted really, but we both love sneaky a lot! biggrin I hope I make sense now why trust isn't so dear to us.  

[M00nbat]

California debates "yes means yes" sex assault law. Thoughts?  

[Alyx Rodanthe]

Saew

California debates "yes means yes" sex assault law. Thoughts?

I don't know how I feel about that. It leaves a lot of room for error, as well as open for some interpretation.  

[Noble Legolas]

Saew

California debates "yes means yes" sex assault law. Thoughts?

I'll quote a short thing I have read in the article that totally cracked me up:

Quote:

"Most students don't know what consent is," she said. "I've asked at the workshops how many people think if a girl is blacked out drunk that it's OK to have sex with her. The amount of people who raised their hands was just startling."

rofl rofl rofl

OMG! That's just as stupid as some item that was on the news a few weeks ago; about 40% of the Americans believe that the sun revolves around the earth.

xd

It's hard to believe this is about college students. wtf do kids learn @ schools in America? Not much if I should believe all these items.  

[Oxyria]

About the quote, it's clearly not OK, and so many people feel entitled to predate on other people in moments of extreme vulnerability. It's the theme of popular entertainment ("Get a girl drunk so she'll take you home"). It's the subject of so many jokes. The rate of sexual assault is terrifying and is really telling of how violently misogynistic the culture we live within is.
It's the reason I make sure I have a support network of friends who know where I'm going and when I'm going there. It's why I'm very careful about how much I drink (if I do), and where I drink. It's the reason I don't walk alone at night in a city. Every single female person knows exactly what I'm talking about.

I really can't laugh about it. It's way too common and I have no tolerance for it.



None of this is to undermine that men are sexually assaulted too. I realize that there's not as much dialogue and it's not usually acknowledged. It's just that it's not such a common theme (which is admittedly part of why it's not as widely acknowledged). Mostly I'm saying with all this is that the rape of women is usually considered socially acceptable, and that's ********.  

[Chieftain Twilight]

Saew

California debates "yes means yes" sex assault law. Thoughts?

Quote:

Critics say the state is overstepping its bounds. The Los Angeles Times in an editorial after the bill passed the state Senate 27-4 wrote that it raises questions as to whether it is "reasonable" or "enforceable." The legislation is based on the White House task force's recommendations.

"It seems extremely difficult and extraordinarily intrusive to micromanage sex so closely as to tell young people what steps they must take in the privacy of their own dorm rooms," the newspaper said.

what the ********!? stressed they are literally arguing that people should have the right to rape their victims in the privacy of their own dorm room! that's disgusting!  

[Chieftain Twilight]

Oxyria

About the quote, it's clearly not OK, and so many people feel entitled to predate on other people in moments of extreme vulnerability. It's the theme of popular entertainment ("Get a girl drunk so she'll take you home"). It's the subject of so many jokes. The rate of sexual assault is terrifying and is really telling of how violently misogynistic the culture we live within is.
It's the reason I make sure I have a support network of friends who know where I'm going and when I'm going there. It's why I'm very careful about how much I drink (if I do), and where I drink. It's the reason I don't walk alone at night in a city. Every single female person knows exactly what I'm talking about.

I really can't laugh about it. It's way too common and I have no tolerance for it.



None of this is to undermine that men are sexually assaulted too. I realize that there's not as much dialogue and it's not usually acknowledged. It's just that it's not such a common theme (which is admittedly part of why it's not as widely acknowledged). Mostly I'm saying with all this is that the rape of women is usually considered socially acceptable, and that's ******** class="clear">