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manticore has left

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 4:15 pm
Blaise-Ingram
I don't know, I didn't research the history on Israelites using enemy captive ladies as sex slaves... But knowing that they're far from perfect and really no better than any other civilization on the planet, regardless of whatever laws God and Moses put in place, I'm sure it happened anyways.

Just to explain why God even commanded the women to be captured in the first place: if God did not want the women to be killed, His provision was to have the Israelites accept them because their society would fall apart without the men. It would have been a pretty cruel way for them to go without men to support them: they would either die in the wilderness alone or be forced to find new cities and towns. If they were successful in the latter, they would have been seen as inferior and would most likely have to serve as either a slave or prostitute; they would have virtually no chance of gaining their former status (if even their basic dignity).

Contrary to what this troll suggests, God did not want these women subjected to slavery and abuse, and so He arranged a plan for the Israelites to accommodate them so that they wouldn't have to turn to any of these things. At the very least, God would have provided them a refuge from the harsh wilderness and basic materials for survival; more importantly, though, He would have preserved their dignity and consciences, and in the presence of the Israelites they would gradually come to know what was good and maybe even turn from the ways that got their home towns and cities judged to begin with.

I don't doubt that there would have been Israelites who would've sexually abused the captive women. But the troll (for the record, the OP is not the troll, she received an email from one and posted its contents here) "inferred" that all men would have abused the foreign women. They didn't, and they would have been punished under the Law if they did because God's laws remain rigid even when the offended person was not an Israelite.

In fact, God even allowed these women to receive a higher status: if a man wanted to take a captive woman as his wife, and if she was willing to follow God and the Jewish standards, she would undertake a series of purification rituals to become part of the Jewish culture. There was no guarantee of that ever happening elsewhere.  
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:53 pm
Blaise-Ingram
I went out of my way to look through the things you said. Some of which I could debunk, and some of them I couldn't.
One of those things I couldn't debunk was that the OT God seems to be really angry and genocides people way too much. But hey, maybe that will keep all the people whining about "there are too many humans on this planet!" happy.

I don't think you're trolling, because no one is that bad at it. I think you are just a legitimately concerned human being, and that's good. It's good to be concerned and question things sometimes.
If you ARE trolling, though... Troll harder. Sorry.

1. I know some people will object to my statement about the NT, but Paul was not Jesus. Also Paul was talking about how he wanted to run the church. He straight starts the section with "I desire therefore that..." and not "God said..." so this is what Paul wants, not God.

2. The OT was pretty violent, yeah. God was really angry with anyone who messed with Israel or perverted their ways. It really is a shame that he ordered genocide, though. I never really understood why God wanted to practically kill everyone in the OT, so I take the "God said to kill ___" thing with a grain of salt myself.

3. Exodus 22:1 says "If a man steals an ox or a sheep, and slaughters it or sells it, he shall restore five oxen for an ox and four sheep for a sheep."
So I thought you made a typo and checked Exodus 22:11, 2:11, and 2:1, and none of them have anything to do with sorcery, but then I realized you were talking about 22:18.
The ancient Jewish people had a lot of laws, what can I say? Moses wanted to keep society in order. And if sorceresses were going to upset that balance, it made sense to do the caveman-style thing and kill them. That's how they dealt with most of their problems back then before Jesus came along and told them to cut it out.

4. This was the last verse of a song about the Israeli people being in Babylon. Because Babylon is going to be destroyed (by whom it doesn't specify) the verse says that whoever is going to destroy Babylon is going to be delighted to do so. Here's the last section of the song:
"O daughter of Babylon, who are to be destroyed, happy the one who repays you as you have served us! Happy the one who takes and dashes your little ones against the rock!"

5. Just because one Jewish guy took a hooker doesn't mean we should take hookers. It's telling a story, not condoning what happened. Yeah there's some awful stuff that happens in the OT, but most of it is storytelling. Also yeah, for some reason the Jewish guy cut her up into pieces in the end. Honestly I have no clue what the point of this story was, but I'm pretty sure we're not suppose to take hookers and cut them up.

6. Yeah people did that a lot, actually. And they still do. I hear it was actually very common in the Mediterranean world at the time. Can't figure out what you're trying to say here.

7. Yeah burnt human sacrifice is pretty jacked up. But apparently the daughter agreed to it. God probably had a big hand to play in setting his daughter in place to be the one to be sacrificed. Chances are it was a lesson God was trying to teach Jephthah about not vowing to do stupid things.
Also, apparently this event was lamented by Israel, as evidenced by Judges 11:39-40
Nonetheless, I think it can be said that Jephthah made a very dumb vow.

8. Yeah I guess God really really likes burning people. Can't argue there.

9. Once again, Paul. Yeah he is a misogynist. But if it's any condolence to you, if you'd read the rest of that section, it also says "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her."
Unfortunately, it's we don't live in a perfect world without domestic abuse and power abuse in general, otherwise the whole "husbands treat your wives great, and women treat your husbands great" thing would actually work out.

10. Peter, not fond of him either. Also, maybe it's because I use NKJV (I'd like to read original Greek text someday to get a more accurate translation for everything), but I see "servants" instead of "slaves" written in mine. A servant has a really broad definition, as it could mean anyone from a slave to a worker to a housemaid to an indentured servant to a whole slew of other people who "serve" someone. Also, like the wife/husband thing, there are also parts of the Bible that mention a master should be good to their servants! Unfortunately, very few "masters" seem to follow that rule, which is just as important. The problem with people who think they're "elite" or having someone submit to them is that they often interpret it as a "I'm better than you so the rules don't apply to me!" kind of thing.

- About God hating everyone, you forget that Psalms is a book of songs. David (who was probably one of the worst kings in history, for so many reasons) wrote the song you're referring to here. The section which says "The boastful shall not stand in Your sight; You hate all workers of iniquity." which is basically putting words in God's mouth. Which ironically enough, is also a sin.
Also, supposedly Mary was blameless, too. So that's 2 out of 2, I guess. Also, even though Job suffered like probably no one else on this earth, God rewarded him for dealing with it like a boss by giving him back all the things he took from him, times two. Read Job 42:10-17, which is the end of the book.

- I like how you take one thing about Jesus and take it out of context.
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but division. For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her month, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law, and a man's enemies will be those of his own household.
He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it."
It's about dedicating your life to Christ and doing good deeds. And because not everyone is a good person, sometimes someone in your family won't want you to go out and do these things. I've found this to be true with my family. Some of them are not happy that I converted to Christianity and want to go out and help the poor because they aren't really into helping the poor, so that's the kind of division Jesus was talking about. It is an inevitable division. It can't be classified as something good or bad, it's just something that happens when you fight for what you think is right.

Anyways, most of your post doesn't seem to have as much to do with Christianity as it does ancient Judaism. Which, as you will notice, is very different from the teachings of Christ. Hence why Christianity is called Christianity.

Also, you seem to be going on the assumption that God wrote every last page and letter and verse of the Bible, and that every verse is translated perfectly. While a lot of Christians do believe that, I remain a skeptic about the Bible's 100% accuracy and truth as a whole. I only believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and the teachings of Christ. The Bible didn't even exist when Jesus was around, and I believe the physical church that was established years after his death has corrupted a lot of the original teachings and purpose and meaning behind Jesus. It's not a popular opinion I have, but it should give you a background on where I'm coming from.

But most of all, do yourself and the world a favor and don't read Sparknotes/cliffnotes/whatever. If you're gonna read a book, no matter how boring and chunky and long, just read the damn thing. If you don't have time to read, that's fine, just straight up admit it and move along.


I did not create the list of these Bible misinterpiations...Everyone thinks I did. No, someone who is not saved sent me the list and I'm only 17. Not knowing what to reply I asked everyone I could to help me answer this and I thank you for your reply.  

CheyenneServant


silvershadowedwings

Timid Explorer

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:16 pm
emotion_jawdrop ...I can already tell by looking at the list, they are taken out of context and very misinterpreted, even so, i will be back for answers emotion_c8  
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:56 pm
Hey OP, sorry for confusing you with the person who sent that list. I didn't mean to think it was you who was thinking these things... My mistake!

Hopefully everyone else who posted, or has thought similarly, will realize this as well.

My apologies.  

Blaise-Ingram

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CheyenneServant

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:13 pm
Blaise-Ingram
Hey OP, sorry for confusing you with the person who sent that list. I didn't mean to think it was you who was thinking these things... My mistake!

Hopefully everyone else who posted, or has thought similarly, will realize this as well.

My apologies.

Thank you for apologizing. It means a lot. And I hope so too.  
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:27 am
kesuke uchiha
Jesuslittleprincess
kesuke uchiha
Jesuslittleprincess


well...lol there is a logical way to explain all the sections...though mind you...most of these have been taken WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY out of context as a means of attacking Christianity....
I have no idea where you got these suckers...but either you are attacking and trying to pry others away...or you fell for someone else's attack
either way....you should not have posted these here

I am a devout CHristian and someone has sent that list to me, trying to discredit Christianity. I was looking for some help on how to handle what was sent me. I wanted help defending CHristianity.

this is a little better then ^_^
first off...tell him to stop taking the bible out of context...then tell him not to confuse ancient culture with biblical teachings....
many things within that list are speaking of LAWS and not something that God spoke nor something that God told us to do...things that were sinful and eventually were up and booted from the laws by Christians.
but the best way to react to this person generally is to ignore him....some people are far beyond saving until they can learn to humble themselves.....like my sister >o<


He's right OP. People can always find a "bad" way to look at something, even if there is an explanation. If somebody has already decided to fight you, then they won't listen. You can't save somebody who is out to prove you wrong and not to just understand. They need humility. It's okay to question things I think, but only if you are willing to hear the answer fairly I think. I think the guy above me is right though- if this person isn't willing to understand and only wants to fight, i'd suggest just ignoring him. His goal may be just to fight, and that would lead you no where sad  

thetikignat hozergnat

Wheezing Lunatic


shepheard29

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:38 am
the reason the bible is being manipulated is because jesus said there will be a day when people will turn on him and those who worship god and those who stay true shall be set free of sin, thats whats happening here so dont bother with atheists because they wont listen anyway just stay true to god and it will all be fine  
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:13 pm
HUGE props and respect for going through all that time for someone who is clearly misguided and confused. I have seen that post in EVERY christian guild/thread/etc for the last month. If I could I would tip you 1000g for being the ONLY to answer it with biblical references and the Holy Spirit guiding your words.  

DustQueen

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Blaise-Ingram

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:45 pm
thetikignat hozergnat
kesuke uchiha
Jesuslittleprincess
kesuke uchiha
Jesuslittleprincess


well...lol there is a logical way to explain all the sections...though mind you...most of these have been taken WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY out of context as a means of attacking Christianity....
I have no idea where you got these suckers...but either you are attacking and trying to pry others away...or you fell for someone else's attack
either way....you should not have posted these here

I am a devout CHristian and someone has sent that list to me, trying to discredit Christianity. I was looking for some help on how to handle what was sent me. I wanted help defending CHristianity.

this is a little better then ^_^
first off...tell him to stop taking the bible out of context...then tell him not to confuse ancient culture with biblical teachings....
many things within that list are speaking of LAWS and not something that God spoke nor something that God told us to do...things that were sinful and eventually were up and booted from the laws by Christians.
but the best way to react to this person generally is to ignore him....some people are far beyond saving until they can learn to humble themselves.....like my sister >o<


He's right OP. People can always find a "bad" way to look at something, even if there is an explanation. If somebody has already decided to fight you, then they won't listen. You can't save somebody who is out to prove you wrong and not to just understand. They need humility. It's okay to question things I think, but only if you are willing to hear the answer fairly I think. I think the guy above me is right though- if this person isn't willing to understand and only wants to fight, i'd suggest just ignoring him. His goal may be just to fight, and that would lead you no where sad


Oh man oh man this is so true. I've found that most people who confront Christians about their beliefs are looking for trouble more than they are to have a civil discussion. And sadly, a lot of Christians can't defend their own beliefs, and they don't know WHY they believe what they believe, or what the significance of what they believe is.

I do think that it is always EXTREMELY important to clear up any misconceptions or anything taken out of context, especially when someone is accusing you of something that is not true. There are a lot of lies spread about what Christians as a whole believe, and lots of people even go so far to discredit everything about Christianity by saying that Jesus never was real. This creates a seething hatred against Christianity, and we must work to correct anything you know is false or deceptive.

If someone asks me a question about your faith in a strange way that seems suspicious or like they're looking to pick a fight, I will straight-up respond by asking if they have any ulterior motives to make me look stupid for their own gain, and I just won't continue the conversation from there.

After all, even Jesus didn't bother with the Pharisees and the Sadducees. He knew that they would never believe, and so he didn't waste his time. He spent time on people who needed and WANTED to be saved and blessed by him. If we are to live by example, then we must do the same and not pick fights, or allow those who want to pick fights to get to us. At all.  
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