Quote:
So, are you also saying that it's useless that almost all 12 of Jesus' apostles became martyrs?
I'm not in a position of knowledge to say whether or not they participated in God's will up until their death. I don't know what God's will for them was up to that point; it's easy to look at history is retrospect and say that just because something happened means it was MEANT to happen, and maybe that's true, but all the same it may not be true.
Quote:
Was their act of expressing their belief useless? Did they choose that fate?
No, and no. The act of expressing ones beliefs can be separate from the act of dying for one's beliefs. But dying for one's beliefs may result from expressing one's beliefs. They're related, but they are not always the same. Though they can be.
Quote:
The thing is, if someone becomes a martyr they don't always choose it.
I am aware. As someone who has been held at gunpoint before, and felt that very real and horrible fear while being interrogated, I'd still choose to die on my feet trying to fight back and survive rather than let the enemy feel any satisfaction from killing even a single Christian. To put it simply, I wouldn't answer their question. I simply wouldn't. My testimony to them has no value. When someone's determined to kill me, they do not gain anything and will not gain anything towards God by me testifying. Saying "Yes, I believe in God," or "No I do not believe in God" will not bring the man closer to God or help him see Jesus. My testimony will not assist in saving him. But if I choose to try to survive in that situation, God willing it, then I can move on and help OTHER people who would be willing to hear the word of God.
Perhaps "useless" isn't the word I was looking for; maybe "unnecessary" would be more accurate. I think (and this is just what I think ) martyrdom is unnecessary unless God deems it so. And I do not know God's will for every single person. Indeed, God can let me die at any given moment, without any warning, if he wills it.
What I AM saying is that there are smart ways to proclaim the Gospel to people, and there are poor ways to proclaim it to people. And both of them CAN have the same results, which is dependent on people's hearts and how they receive the Word, if at all.
So whether you proclaim the Gospel in a tactful way, or proclaim it in a not-tactful way, either way someone can hate and kill you for it. If you're standing in the street with an offensive poster, yelling "You're going to hell if you don't repent and accept and love Jesus as your savior!", people are automatically going to hate you for it. While yes, the message being delivered is absolutely true, the execution is poor. And yes, that indeed is the Christian's fault.
There are a lot of good ways to communicate the Gospel with people, and yes all of them involve possibly getting slandered or killed. But some are more likely to get you killed than others, while not managing to help convert or save anyone. For that to happen is sad, and a shame. Maybe that person will still end up in heaven and given brownie points for trying, but that's not my business to determine or speculate.
Quote:
What about these people in other countries who have a dominate religion that isn't known for getting along with Christianity? The second someone in a non-Christian country believes in Jesus, their life is at risk. They want to save others and spread the word and they are doing their duty as a Christian - to spread the gospel. It's not a waste of time and they know the consequences for it, but Jesus won't look at them as less for becoming a martyr because they were doing what a Christian was supposed to do.
You're right, those places are dangerous. And they are definitely putting their lives on the line there. And you're right, being martyred in that situation is not a choice, it never is. And you're right, they are spreading the Gospel. Of of course Jesus won't look at them as less for becoming a martyr. Neither do I. So I don't see what you're trying to say there.
Quote:
In life, we need to spread the gospel, but if we die spreading the gospel, what's to worry about? We have fulfilled our duty in life. Being a believer in God isn't about, "I'm doing whatever it takes to save my life here so I can live longer." It's more on the basis of:
Psalm 3:5
"I lie down and sleep; I wake again, because the LORD sustains me"
Psalm 3:5
"I lie down and sleep; I wake again, because the LORD sustains me"
Yes, man does not live on bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God, as Jesus said.
But that doesn't mean we should stop eating, and rely only on God's word.
Doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for survival in a situation where OTHER people may benefit in the future. This whole time, I have not been talking about choosing to survive a situation for the sake of saving one's own life. After all, he who wishes to save his life will lose it, and he who finds Christ will gain it. I'm talking about choosing to survive for the sake of OTHER people's lives. Not to save yourself from death; everyone dies eventually, but if you can use your life as a tool to save OTHER people's lives, then that tool is worth preserving and taking good care of.
Quote:
Our life can end at any time and why we keep living is because the Lord sustains us. We are still to do our duty as Christians while we are alive, even if this means our lives are in utter peril due to spreading the gospel. If you're not spreading the gospel due to a fear of martyrdom then you are only hiding because you're too ashamed of the Lord because you're afraid at the things people will say. We are blessed when we are persecuted if it is in God's name so that wouldn't make sense to say "martyrdom is useless". We are blessed when we are persecuted because of God. Think about it - Jesus fulfilled a duty, a punishment that He didn't deserve. A punishment that He willingly took on for us! That was God's plan and perhaps Jesus couldn't have avoided it, but I have no doubt that Jesus could have tried to avoid it, but He carried through.
Yes, I know this. People will never stop persecuting Christians. And no one should hide from spreading God's word, when they have the opportunity. But there are other reasons that non-Christians hate Christians in these modern times, and all their opinions DO need to be taken into consideration and thoroughly analyzed, instead of being dismissed as "Oh everyone hates Christians because of the message we spread; it's our destiny", which, while that is true, is not always an explanation for why people hate and won't listen to us.
Often times, as I have said before, it is the delivery of the message that makes people hate Christians. Pamphlets, going door-to-door, randomly asking about Jesus in conversation, standing on streetcorners telling people they're going to hell, not knowing when to back off if someone is uninterested, these kinds of things do NOT open people's hearts to Jesus, and often times make them irritated or angry. It is not the message they are upset with, it is how the message is delivered, AND... AND one big thing: how the speaker of the Gospel is perceived.
A Christian is a representative of Christ and other Christians, so when one acts poorly, it reflects on the rest of us. If even one of us acts like a hypocrite or a monster, it reflects on all of us. All it takes is one Christian to make someone upset and have them never consider Jesus again; it's a fine line that needs to be walked on, especially with those who are slightly less receptive of the Gospel.
Yes, people will persecute you for Jesus' sake. That is a fact. But just make sure you're being persecuted for the right things, first.
Now, those examples are specific to spreading the Gospel in North America; I know that's pretty narrow-minded of me to not be considering other places, but that's where my home turf is right now and that's where I want to be to help save people. Those who go to other countries as missionaries have a completely different set of rules to follow, and are faced with more danger and use a different type of discretion. And I applaud them, they're doing some very hard work.
Quote:
With martyrs - God has a plan for those who become martyrs. So if you say about Jesus, "That was God's plan for him." Then what about the martyrs out there that die because they spread the gospel? If that was God's plan for their life is that a waste of time?
I don't claim to know God's will for anyone, except knowing God's will for Jesus, who knows God's will and stated that what happened to him was meant to be that way. So technically I only know what Jesus said, after the fact happened.
Quote:
Martyrdom accomplishes a lot more than people even realize.
This is the only part I fail to see evidence of.
As a Christian, hearing and seeing of martyrdom and only strengthens my own beliefs, but me gaining that strength doesn't benefit others. What hearing and seeing of martyrdom does for non-believers, specifically those who are directly partaking in the martyrdom, I don't have an answer.
Quote:
Also, if people make fun of you you're saying that's the Christians fault in your one reason of "This can either happen because the Gospel is not being communicated tactfully and your credibility has been injured because of it" (Your second reason has more accuracy than the first)? You say they are preaching the gospel wrong because people are thinking their stupid according to that first reason? No, this is completely inaccurate and untrue. Being persecuted is part of life for a Christian. Research these: 1 Peter 4:12 - 19, John 15:18 - 19, Matthew 10:22 (This one even says "You WILL be hated because of 'me' being Jesus). It is a guaranteed part of a Christian life. As I have heard it said, "If you are too comfortable as a Christian, you may be doing something wrong because serving God is all about coming out of your comfort zone." Just a few things to honestly think about.
I already explained my thoughts on that above.
BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY:
"You say they are preaching the gospel wrong because people are thinking their stupid according to that first reason?"
NO. Caps lock NO. That's not what I said. And I clarified, with reasons that I already explained above.
