Monstrous Gladiators [My CR > Your CR!]

[Vampfighter1]

Alright. I'm good with pathfinder. I'll begin building the economy?  

[xX_Terei_Xx]

iLL iNTENT

:3 I'm interested~
It reminds me of Monster Rancher and Rune Factory~

As for feedback:

• How will we be obtaining more property? Do we have to buy it or does it come with the prestige? Can two people combine their plots and work together?
  
• For monster selection, a combination of the two might be best.
  Teams could be made up for the people who want a quick pick, but choosing your own team should still be available.
  ((I would be going for the second one, in all honesty))
  
• I think rarer monsters should be auctioned or raffled off. The more common ones should be fixed, but in limited quantity.
  (So someone can potentially buy all of the goblins as a strategy, since the arena won't always be fair)
  
• Is there a way to just leave monsters to level up, without having to bring them out and train them or putting them in the arena?
  
• When a monster falls in battle, is it gone or just fainted?
  
• How does the "obtaining new monsters on your own" thing work? Do you have to convince the monster to join you, beat it up, trap it, intimidate it, etc.?
  

I have no opinion on sabotage.  

[Vampfighter1]

iLL iNTENT

I haven't seen Vamp online so hadn't had the opportunity to do much planning but here's what I'm thinking so far:

System:
As previously mentioned, I'm running this with Pathfinder.

Character Creation:
Your characters would have to of had experience dealing with monsters to reach this point so I'm thinking you will be starting off at 3rd level. When making your character, you should also keep in mind what sort of monsters you want to focus on. A ranger would have an easier time training animals and magical beasts than a rogue. A cleric could create their own stash of undead monsters. (Provided they've got the bodies.) And a wizard's spells could provide the kind of magical containment needed to keep outsiders under control.

Then there's the issue of alignment. Keeping a group of monsters for gladiatorial fights isn't exactly something I can imagine a good character doing. You don't necessarily have to make an evil character but all characters submitted should be non-good.

Property:
You'll also each have a piece of property consisting of a few acres, with a basic single story house and some sort of structure for containing your monsters. The exact nature of this structure will be up to each player. Keep in mind the types of monsters you want to train and make sure you have the appropriate facilities for them. This won't be too big of a deal in the beginning of the game since only very basic, low-level stuff will be available, but once you want to expand to more exotic monsters, special requirements might have to be met in order for you to keep them.

Minions:
Aside from your main character, you will also each have two level 1 minions on your staff to help you maintain your property, train your monsters, and keep them under control. As you gain experience, these minions shall level up as well. Down the road, opportunities to hire more minions will arise if the players wish to do so.

Starting Monsters:
As for your starting monsters, you'll each begin the game with 2 CRs worth of monsters to fight with. You'll get these starting monsters free of charge, but any other monsters will either have to be purchased at the market, won from special events in the arena, or tracked down and caught by your own characters.

For determining your starting monsters, I'm thinking of two ways to handle it:

In the first method, I generate a number of teams of monsters I think would work well together, and whose CRs total up to 2. (For example, 6 goblins, or 4 mites and a giant spider, or 2 lizardfolk, or 3 skeletons and 2 zombies.) Players then each choose a group to be their stable of starting monsters.

For the second method, I would merely make a list of which monsters are currently being sold in the market, sorted by CR. Players would then choose monsters that total up to 2 CR to be their starting team. That way players can have more of an eclectic mix if they so wish.

Monster and Minion Equipment:
Aside from your starting gold, I'll also be granting you an amount of gold (most likely 1,000 gp) to buy equipment for your monsters and minions, and make any modifications to your monster training facilities you think you might need. This extra gold will not be added to your character once you're done spending. Any remainder will be dropped off so spend it wisely.

Gameplay and Rules:
With such a different style of play, I'm thinking of handling this differently from traditional play by post games. Instead of having a single 'roleplaying topic,' a new topic will be created for each fight taking place in the arena, so everyone else isn't just sitting around while two players' monsters are having a go at each other.

While two players are fighting, other players are welcome to post in those threads as 'spectators, 'but can't take any actions to influence the actual battle.

Aside from one on one battles between two players' groups of monsters, I'm also thinking there would be special fights such as free for alls, two on two battles, and team battles where monsters from each players' teams unite against a greater foe with a higher CR.

I will also maintain a topic that would kind of serve as the 'Arena Notice Board.' It will keep track of what fights are currently going on, players' ratio of wins and loses, and notifications of upcoming special fights where players can earn prizes such as gold, magic items, or rare monsters.

There will also be a topic that serves as the Arena Marketplace, where players can purchase new monsters for their teams. I am not sure if monsters will be sold for a fixed price at a first come first serve basis, or if there will be some sort of auction system. Which do you guys think you would prefer?

And your monsters won't be getting ALL of the action. I'm expecting something like this to have a lot of player interaction and intrigue. Captain already suggested expeditions for acquiring new monsters in the wild as well as attempts to sabotage other players. I think the whole sabotage spin could be fun and interesting as long as it doesn't get out of hand. If you want to cheat by holding an opponent's prized monster ransom or maybe weaken them with poison before a big fight, I will allow it as long as it remains in good fun and no one abuses this privilege.

------------------------------------------------------------

That's what I've got for now. I would appreciate any feedback anybody might have to give. Does this idea still interest anyone? Which methods of monster selection would you prefer? And how do you feel on the whole 'sabotage' angle?

I'm back, and as for the system of improving one's self, I've got the system prepped and ready for review.




For any 1V1 Non-Death match, between players, the Gold amount that a play can win in the purse, is the Two highest CR's of the monsters X 100. This is what the Arena will supply as winnings. The loser however, must pay the arena the two highest CR's of Monsters X 100 in what are called loss fees.

For a 1V1 Death Match between players, the winnings are identical, but the loss fines are not included due to the loss of the monsters which one way or another you must now replace.

Once every two months, there shall be a grand tournament. Loss Fines shall not be included, but for every monster you enter into the tournament there are going to be Entrance Fees. In order to gain winnings you need to be in the top 4 competitors.
4th shall recieve 1000 gp winnings
3rd recieves 2,000
2nd recieves 4000
and 1st recieves 10,000.
These winnings shall change as there are more tournaments, and different levels of gladiator teams.


Once Per day, I shall be Running the Daily Auction, which comes with a Monster/ Team of Monsters. Players may bid for the monsters.

Obtaining monsters on your own is a long and tedious process, but also worth the risk. You must trap the monster, weeaken it, return it to your home, break it of its wild tendencies, and then train it. However, for anyone who goes through this process, you may raise the hit die and CR of the monster/Creature by one.

Property is entirely based on money, Every Player starts with a simple home, and their training facility. In order to raise to a new level of home or facility, one must pay for a level's worth of expirience.

EX. Level 1 Home = Single story 2-3 rooms.
Level 2 Home = Single Story, 5-7 Rooms Price to Upgrade= 1,000 gold
Level 3 Home= 2 Story, 5-7 rooms or Single story 13 rooms= 3000 gold.

Level 1 Training Facility= May hold one low CR type of monster (Goblins, Kobold) and contains one trainer and two guards
Level Two Training facility= May hold one med CR type of Monster, or two types of Low CR. Additional staff raises the training facility = 1000 gp to up grade.


This means that High level facilites for epic ranges of power could cost in the millions of GP.


Now on the topic of Sharing property and teams for the arena, two players may collaborate as a team. However, by rules of the arena, these two players must use their individual traineesas seperate teams in the following Arena Matches:
1V1
Free-for-All
Grand Tournament

All other styles of Arena Matches may act as team battles.



There is a black market out there that can get you anything you want at anytime, but costs double. So if the market for the day doesn't include goblin armor, but you desperately need it, simply contact the Black Market.


If there is any economic dispute, please PM me with a problem.  

[Captain Ragnar Devonin]

I just woke up, please forgive if something doesn't make sense.

• RE: Improving Monsters - I'd say that monsters that don't train, or fight, shouldn't get any XP whatsoever. If they aren't doing anything, they aren't learning. Monsters who are training (but not fighting) should get XP to account for their training, allowing you to leave a monster in your (relatively) risk-free barracks and train him up to be a beast without risk to him. Of course, without an actual go in the arena, it'll take much longer and by then your opponents could have creatures equal to, or better than him. A risk vs. reward (or no risk vs. people getting stronger faster).
  
• RE: Death or Faint - (Woo more Pokemon references!) - I'd say this would depend on the battle. If we use Pathfinder's rules for performance combat, in death matches, it could be left up to the crowd to decide whether or not your monster lives or dies. And even then it'd come down to chance. You'd need the crowd to be in your favour, which would result in (perhaps) a d100 roll. A certain result means the crowd called for 'Life' because if the good fight. Naturally, if the crowd is against you... your monster dies. In non-deathmatches, I assume there'd be magic wards to convert damage to non-lethal, which means creatures would just be KO'd. ... But accidents happen. wink
  
• RE: Method of Creature Selection - I'd say go with the second method for fun, first method for fair. The second method has the caveat that the more books you have, the greater your chance of finding a monster whose CR doesn't fit him and wrecks that level of competition. So it just depends; do you want fair (first method), or fun? (second method).
  
• RE: Spectator Thread - This could serve as an alternate purpose; perhaps skill checks could be used here to try and get your opponents to let slip information (sense motive, bluff, limited diplomacy). I mean, in play-by-post, it is pretty easy to be tight-lipped about things. Especially since someone will, garenteed, make a 'strong silent guy who never tips his hand'. I'd say boasting is what 50% of that thread would be about (and they do it all the time in gladiator movies, and makes for interesting show). Also, it could be used to toss in the towel. If in a deathmatch your team is being beat, you can toss in the towel so long as you decided to spectate (if you're off doing other stuff, you lose the chance). This may carry with it a fine (and possibly, if performance combat is used, set the crowd's attitude one step lower toward you in the next fight).
  
• RE: Monster Shop - I think having a set shop with the occasional (or perhaps frequent, which might make things more interesting) auction would be good. Perhaps the shop gets new shipments twice a week, and holds an auction on those days for the 'prize of the litter' - usually the meanest, or toughest looking beastie. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean it is the best creature. Might also allow for bribes; allowing someone to offer gold to the people who capture these creatures for 'first pick' - multiple people could bribe (I doubt these shady types would turn it away) but they'd go with the person with the deepest pockets first regardless.
  
• RE: Capture Methods - A Merciful weapon would be very helpful here! I think leaving this open-ended would allow for a greater freedom, and more fun. This means you could subdue the wild beast (or creature) and take him, maybe convince something intelligent to fight for you (diplomacy), threaten something into fighting for you (intimidate), just straight-up trap it (for less intelligent creatures), etc... It'd also give more use for social skills because let's face it - most people are probably going to dump those, just so they're better at capturing their own beasts. Even in regular games they're often dumped.
  
• RE: Gold Loss/Entry Fee - I disagree with this. You can scream realistic all you want, but realism isn't always fun, and I think in this case it wouldn't be. If someone loses their prized monsters in a deathmatch gone wrong, they'd probably go to the nonlethal fights - and since these aren't their A team, they may not even place, and then they lose gold too. It could wind up with someone who has no gold, no monsters, or both, leaving them with few options. Without monsters to back them up, or money to hire help, whatever they go out to capture (since it'd be their only option left) wouldn't be that strong. So they'd have to get more. And slowly put together a small team of weaklings while everyone else gets better in the arena. And once you fall behind like that due to a combination of gold loss/monster loss, it just would become less and less fun. Fun trumps realism, always. Entry fees for larger scale matches though, I'd agree with so long as they were kept reasonable. I'd say the goal should be to always leave at least two methods for someone to get back into the game if they take a hard loss. Or a risk-free way to get back into the game (nonlethal fights). You want something sustainable, not something the people on te bottom 5 will lose interest in because the top 5 beat them out.
  
• RE: Resources - It'd need to be decided what is alloed resource-wise. 3rd Party? Can 3.5 be grandfathered in? Personally, I'd say stick to 100% PF, no third paty. This reduces the chance of some overpowered beastie for its CR in an obscure 3PP someone gets from screwing things over.
  
• RE: Remaking - This leads me to another point, if the gold loss idea is kept, then it'd need to be decided how players who want to start over work. I suppose they could go kill an NPC and take over his lot (the NPC would have the grounds of a low character, because too many guards would kill the PC after all). That'd be a pretty effective (if evil) way. Perhaps join up with someone else as a trainer/guard, or the person remakes their main hero (villian?) and can hire their old guy as a guard to give them a slight boost into getting back into the game. I'm sure a trainer with a couple levels on him would help raise monsters better. But that might lead to people wanting to remake for that reason alone, I don't know.
  
• RE: Housing - If our first level pens (as vamp suggested) contain only 1 monster, then the whole idea would need to be reworked as to how starting creatures are selected. I think you two need to decide: do you start with 1-2 creatures, or a team?
  

All I have for now. Hope some of it made sense.  

[xX_Terei_Xx]

Something Other Things

• How will the monsters be getting advancements?
  Is it time related, exp related, reward related, etc?
  i.e. A dragon starts out young, but has the potential to be very powerful as an ancient.
  
• Which brings up the question of buying eggs on the market.
  Allowed or not?
  It would give players a chance to get a nice monster, but there's the time and effort needed to raise it.
  
• Is monster sharing allowed?
  
• Besides competing, will there be other ways of earning money?
  Any businesses or jobs?
  

 

[Captain Ragnar Devonin]

I'd propose something like this for matches to the death:

Deathmatches

• At first these are rare, but become more common (for lower CRs) later. Once a lot of fighting is in the CR10 - 15 range, a CR1-5 death match every now and again wouldn't necessarily be risking someone's best creatures (or otherwise gimping them too terribly). By then they could even buy up some throwaway beasties - if they lose, not much is lost, but a fair gain if you win.
  
• Crowd decides: Ultimately, losing a death match doesn't necessarily mean the end of your creature. The crowd is fickle; roll a d100 with modifiers based on the fight. For example: for each critical threat +2, for each confirmed critical +4, +2 per round lasted when below so much HP (10%? Idea being a possible dramatic comeback/fighting tooth and nail to survive), etc... If the result is 60 or greater, the crowd calls for the creature to be allowed to live.
  
• Influencing the Crowd: At the end of a bout, if the crowd calls for your monsters to die, you can make a diplomacy check (and RP giving a reason, of course... can't just roll dice and win!) The DC is set by the mood of the crowd, perhaps based on the d% roll. For example, the crowd may be "Friendly" toward your monster if the D% is within 10 points of 60. Within 20, they're indifferent, within 30, unfriendly, and less is hostile. A successful check could mean it improves the result of the D% by (#). With each point you succeed the DC by increasing it by another (#).
  
• Tossing in the Towel: You can also give up if the battle is going poorly. Perhaps for the next deathmatch, if you enter, the crowd will be harder to persaude to allow your beast to live (-10 to the D%?). However, if you don't enter the next death match, then the crowd 'forgets' or 'stops caring' (crowds can be pretty fickle... ). The following deathmatch can be entered without such penalty.

This leaves a risk of death, but you can alter/influence events in certain ways, each with their own risk and reward (risk: harder to avoid monsters dying if you throw in the towel, reward: your monsters live). In all though, in the same way fees/fines/etc... are a slippery slope that could lead to disinterest - the opposite is true as well. Without too much threat, the same problem arises. It's a delicate balancing act. Granted, there will always be threat in hunting your own creatures but the arena itself would need some draw (aside from the rare death match).

RE: Advancement
I wonder if there isn't a way to tip the balance here in a way. Perhaps if advancement is decided through XP; the loser of a fight should gain a bit more than a winner. I've always been tied the the notion of failure is a better teacher than success, and it would help out the people who lose a lot. The people who win still get the winners benefit of gold, prestige, etc... But if you consistantly throw your creatures at things and are walled; eventually the lack of gold winnings are going to end up hurting when the opponent has monsters with +3 blades and you have just masterwork. The offset being here is that your monsters become tougher, while his get better gear. He does more damage, but you have more health.

RE: Time-based Advancement/Eggs
I think this might be something to be avoided. Sure, there is great benefit in raising something from an egg (loyalty), but time would be a massive downside. I doubt the game would advance more than a decade or two and that isn't even long enough (if a decade) for a human to get strong enough to fight. If too much time advances, it'd become that characters are dying off (especially halflings, and humans) and there would be less incentive to be anything but elf just so you can raise that dragon from an egg.

RE: Making Money
There could be tournaments/other competitions around from time to time. Perhaps an archery competition, etc.. Also betting, profession checks (which could be done weekly?), gold gained through adventure/hunting beasts, etc...

/Shrug. Just tossing in my 2cp again. I'll shut up if you want me to, Intent.  

[xX_Terei_Xx]

iLL iNTENT

And I agree with the eggs. It's a neat idea. and if you want to keep something hatched from an egg as a pet then I'll have opportunities for finding eggs to arise, otherwise they'd take too much time to mature.

emotion_awesome I want a pseudodragon/true dragon army, then~  

[xX_Terei_Xx]

iLL iNTENT

Sorry, I'm multitasking right now and I worded that last post poorly x.x

What I MEANT to say was that I agree with Captain. Raising things from eggs to fight will take too long. However, the idea of finding eggs is still kind of neat so if you want to keep something around as a pet I'll allow it, but otherwise they won't really have the time to grow into fighters.

:T Then I'll bring a little pseudodragon around with me.

Still, even a baby dragon is a nice addition to a team.  

[Captain Ragnar Devonin]

Sounds good. biggrin Can't wait to see how this turns out, especially since I'm not the one doing the work! smile