Christians and Pornography

[iArchduke Franz Ferdinand]

Abysstic

iArchduke Franz Ferdinand

I think who ever looks at porn is not a true Christian. God will punish them.

That just seems rather rash in my opinion.

It's not rash. Looking at porn is a sin in God's eyes.  

[Anabolics]

iArchduke Franz Ferdinand

Abysstic

iArchduke Franz Ferdinand

I think who ever looks at porn is not a true Christian. God will punish them.

That just seems rather rash in my opinion.

It's not rash. Looking at porn is a sin in God's eyes.

But so is thinking about a girl in a manner aside from finding them attractive. I know that you yourself have looked at an image or poster or a living girl and thought more than "she's attractive". We all have naughty thoughts, sinful thoughts, but we can be forgiven. As much of a sin as it is to watch adult films, you have sinned before and a sin is a sin, no more, no less. surprised  

[iArchduke Franz Ferdinand]

Abysstic

iArchduke Franz Ferdinand

Abysstic

iArchduke Franz Ferdinand

I think who ever looks at porn is not a true Christian. God will punish them.

That just seems rather rash in my opinion.

It's not rash. Looking at porn is a sin in God's eyes.

But so is thinking about a girl in a manner aside from finding them attractive. I know that you yourself have looked at an image or poster or a living girl and thought more than "she's attractive". We all have naughty thoughts, sinful thoughts, but we can be forgiven. As much of a sin as it is to watch adult films, you have sinned before and a sin is a sin, no more, no less. surprised

Actually no. Whenever I open a magazine and I see a women or man whose almost naked I quickly turn the page or close the magazine completely. I don't think dirty thoughts. If it starts to float into my head I quickly get it out. Everyone is a sinner from the moment you're born.  

[Anabolics]

iArchduke Franz Ferdinand

Abysstic

iArchduke Franz Ferdinand

Abysstic

iArchduke Franz Ferdinand

I think who ever looks at porn is not a true Christian. God will punish them.

That just seems rather rash in my opinion.

It's not rash. Looking at porn is a sin in God's eyes.

But so is thinking about a girl in a manner aside from finding them attractive. I know that you yourself have looked at an image or poster or a living girl and thought more than "she's attractive". We all have naughty thoughts, sinful thoughts, but we can be forgiven. As much of a sin as it is to watch adult films, you have sinned before and a sin is a sin, no more, no less. surprised

Actually no. Whenever I open a magazine and I see a women or man whose almost naked I quickly turn the page or close the magazine completely. I don't think dirty thoughts. If it starts to float into my head I quickly get it out. Everyone is a sinner from the moment you're born.

 

[iArchduke Franz Ferdinand]

Abysstic

iArchduke Franz Ferdinand

Abysstic

iArchduke Franz Ferdinand

Abysstic

iArchduke Franz Ferdinand

I think who ever looks at porn is not a true Christian. God will punish them.

That just seems rather rash in my opinion.

It's not rash. Looking at porn is a sin in God's eyes.

But so is thinking about a girl in a manner aside from finding them attractive. I know that you yourself have looked at an image or poster or a living girl and thought more than "she's attractive". We all have naughty thoughts, sinful thoughts, but we can be forgiven. As much of a sin as it is to watch adult films, you have sinned before and a sin is a sin, no more, no less. surprised

Actually no. Whenever I open a magazine and I see a women or man whose almost naked I quickly turn the page or close the magazine completely. I don't think dirty thoughts. If it starts to float into my head I quickly get it out. Everyone is a sinner from the moment you're born.

you and me should now go purify some atheists! ^_~ bye  

[Aporeia]

Nudity and lust are not inherently synonymous. While difficult, especially in a sexually repressed culture as our own, to look at the opposite sex nude without sexual thoughts, it is indeed possible, and to many degrees natural. In fact, utter fear of nudity is somewhat of a recent thing. Even the catholic church during it's "crazy days" of murdering anyone who so much as coughed without their permission, was hanging portraits of nude men and women about unabashedly, and harboring statues depicting very roman ideals of nudity and beauty. It's partially complicated because lust is not an absolute factor. You can look at a nude person of the opposite sex and not lust, just as you can look at a fully clothed on, and sin every bit as much as if you were at a strip club. It's more complicated than that.

On another scope, while I do think that looking at what is obviously porn, and of a provocative/sexual manner is generally sinful, it's not because of an inherent decree or unavoidable statute. For examples, many married couples watch porn in order to get them in the mood, and is to some degree healthy for their sex life, which is not at all sinful in its intent.

My point is it's a complex issue, and stating things in exact values is not going to help anyone understand it. I believe when a situation of looking at pornography is sinful, there's really no question about it because there isn't a way around the issue of lust. There are situations which are excluded solely for the purpose that they don't follow the methodology which makes it sinful. That's not a justification to look at it whenever and wherever, it's an objective view over the reality of the subject, and why it's more complex than always sinful, all the time, such an unswerving assumption is more harmful on a societal basis than it is beneficial, even if it appears under the guise of precaution.  

[kesuke uchiha]

False Dichotomy

Nudity and lust are not inherently synonymous. While difficult, especially in a sexually repressed culture as our own, to look at the opposite sex nude without sexual thoughts, it is indeed possible, and to many degrees natural. In fact, utter fear of nudity is somewhat of a recent thing. Even the catholic church during it's "crazy days" of murdering anyone who so much as coughed without their permission, was hanging portraits of nude men and women about unabashedly, and harboring statues depicting very roman ideals of nudity and beauty. It's partially complicated because lust is not an absolute factor. You can look at a nude person of the opposite sex and not lust, just as you can look at a fully clothed on, and sin every bit as much as if you were at a strip club. It's more complicated than that.

On another scope, while I do think that looking at what is obviously porn, and of a provocative/sexual manner is generally sinful, it's not because of an inherent decree or unavoidable statute. For examples, many married couples watch porn in order to get them in the mood, and is to some degree healthy for their sex life, which is not at all sinful in its intent.

My point is it's a complex issue, and stating things in exact values is not going to help anyone understand it. I believe when a situation of looking at pornography is sinful, there's really no question about it because there isn't a way around the issue of lust. There are situations which are excluded solely for the purpose that they don't follow the methodology which makes it sinful. That's not a justification to look at it whenever and wherever, it's an objective view over the reality of the subject, and why it's more complex than always sinful, all the time, such an unswerving assumption is more harmful on a societal basis than it is beneficial, even if it appears under the guise of precaution.

well said...
I have always been taught that sex is a wonderful girft that God gives a man and woman who are bound by thousands of years of tradition and law...both mans law and Gods....aka marriage.
to induldge in pornography even if it was between a man and his wife...is still wrong....you would still be taking in and sharing that experience therefore stealing Gods gift just as they would be defileing it....
so...I guess...if you really want to get down to it...maybe...just maybe...the only kind of porn you could have...is between you and your wife...that the both of you made...and ONLY you watch....even then...its probobly not a good idea....and the whole thing is questionable...
what do you guys think?  

[Aquatic_blue]

False Dichotomy

Nudity and lust are not inherently synonymous. While difficult, especially in a sexually repressed culture as our own, to look at the opposite sex nude without sexual thoughts, it is indeed possible, and to many degrees natural. In fact, utter fear of nudity is somewhat of a recent thing. Even the catholic church during it's "crazy days" of murdering anyone who so much as coughed without their permission, was hanging portraits of nude men and women about unabashedly, and harboring statues depicting very roman ideals of nudity and beauty. It's partially complicated because lust is not an absolute factor. You can look at a nude person of the opposite sex and not lust, just as you can look at a fully clothed on, and sin every bit as much as if you were at a strip club. It's more complicated than that.

On another scope, while I do think that looking at what is obviously porn, and of a provocative/sexual manner is generally sinful, it's not because of an inherent decree or unavoidable statute. For examples, many married couples watch porn in order to get them in the mood, and is to some degree healthy for their sex life, which is not at all sinful in its intent.

My point is it's a complex issue, and stating things in exact values is not going to help anyone understand it. I believe when a situation of looking at pornography is sinful, there's really no question about it because there isn't a way around the issue of lust. There are situations which are excluded solely for the purpose that they don't follow the methodology which makes it sinful. That's not a justification to look at it whenever and wherever, it's an objective view over the reality of the subject, and why it's more complex than always sinful, all the time, such an unswerving assumption is more harmful on a societal basis than it is beneficial, even if it appears under the guise of precaution.

I will have to kindly disagree that married couples should have right of way to watch porn. Porn is porn, no matter who watches it. When a married couple watches porn, one may be thinking/lusting after those on the television or computers screen rather than their own spouse. Married couples should be able to get each other in the mood on their own - finding each others likes and dislikes in the process. Looking at porn can be harmful to a marriage and destroy it. Pornography is dangerous to whoever views it - especially married couples. Pornography can cause a couple to have guilt, unrealistic expectations during sex, and addictive behaviors to it. Unrealistic expectations is difficult because one or both people in a marriage will expect things that aren't going to happen in the bedroom, which can lead to decreased satisfaction. Also, pornography - if viewed enough can lead to a desensitization to it or twisted mind set to make you think that sex and love don't go together. Some may also lead to believe that people can have a great time having sex with however many people they want to. Pornography shows people having sex all the time as if they don't have some sexual disease and that there are no consequences for having irresponsible sexual relations. Some people may even fail to see that rape is a crime and more of a "fun and exciting experience" because it's a spontaneous action. Some may even not respect the bodies of their spouse and handle each other with care because in pornography they smack each other around, tell each other what to do, try to dominate each other, and boss each other around.

It's nice to remember important verses such as these:

Psalm 119:9 NIV:

How can a young person stay on the path of purity?
By living according to your word.

Matthew 5:28 NIV:

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

1 Corinthians 6:18 - 20 NIV:

Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

Hebrews 13:4 NIV:

Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

Galatians 5:19 - 21 NIV:

The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

*God designed the marriage between a man and woman to be a sacred union. Sex is a gift from God, but is only beautiful if used properly meaning only after marriage and between that married couple.

The book Song of Songs, which is also known as Song of Solomon, is a book on sex and the beauty God intended for it between a man and wife. It's definitely worth a read.  

[Aporeia]

Aquatic_blue

False Dichotomy

Nudity and lust are not inherently synonymous. While difficult, especially in a sexually repressed culture as our own, to look at the opposite sex nude without sexual thoughts, it is indeed possible, and to many degrees natural. In fact, utter fear of nudity is somewhat of a recent thing. Even the catholic church during it's "crazy days" of murdering anyone who so much as coughed without their permission, was hanging portraits of nude men and women about unabashedly, and harboring statues depicting very roman ideals of nudity and beauty. It's partially complicated because lust is not an absolute factor. You can look at a nude person of the opposite sex and not lust, just as you can look at a fully clothed on, and sin every bit as much as if you were at a strip club. It's more complicated than that.

On another scope, while I do think that looking at what is obviously porn, and of a provocative/sexual manner is generally sinful, it's not because of an inherent decree or unavoidable statute. For examples, many married couples watch porn in order to get them in the mood, and is to some degree healthy for their sex life, which is not at all sinful in its intent.

My point is it's a complex issue, and stating things in exact values is not going to help anyone understand it. I believe when a situation of looking at pornography is sinful, there's really no question about it because there isn't a way around the issue of lust. There are situations which are excluded solely for the purpose that they don't follow the methodology which makes it sinful. That's not a justification to look at it whenever and wherever, it's an objective view over the reality of the subject, and why it's more complex than always sinful, all the time, such an unswerving assumption is more harmful on a societal basis than it is beneficial, even if it appears under the guise of precaution.

I will have to kindly disagree that married couples should have right of way to watch porn. Porn is porn, no matter who watches it. When a married couple watches porn, one may be thinking/lusting after those on the television or computers screen rather than their own spouse. Married couples should be able to get each other in the mood on their own - finding each others likes and dislikes in the process. Looking at porn can be harmful to a marriage and destroy it. Pornography is dangerous to whoever views it - especially married couples. Pornography can cause a couple to have guilt, unrealistic expectations during sex, and addictive behaviors to it. Unrealistic expectations is difficult because one or both people in a marriage will expect things that aren't going to happen in the bedroom, which can lead to decreased satisfaction. Also, pornography - if viewed enough can lead to a desensitization to it or twisted mind set to make you think that sex and love don't go together. Some may also lead to believe that people can have a great time having sex with however many people they want to. Pornography shows people having sex all the time as if they don't have some sexual disease and that there are no consequences for having irresponsible sexual relations. Some people may even fail to see that rape is a crime and more of a "fun and exciting experience" because it's a spontaneous action. Some may even not respect the bodies of their spouse and handle each other with care because in pornography they smack each other around, tell each other what to do, try to dominate each other, and boss each other around.

It's nice to remember important verses such as these:

Psalm 119:9 NIV:

How can a young person stay on the path of purity?
By living according to your word.

Matthew 5:28 NIV:

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

1 Corinthians 6:18 - 20 NIV:

Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

Hebrews 13:4 NIV:

Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

Galatians 5:19 - 21 NIV:

The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

*God designed the marriage between a man and woman to be a sacred union. Sex is a gift from God, but is only beautiful if used properly meaning only after marriage and between that married couple.

The book Song of Songs, which is also known as Song of Solomon, is a book on sex and the beauty God intended for it between a man and wife. It's definitely worth a read.

You make a number of broad, sweeping assumptions which are not biblically enforced or alluded to.

1: The "porn is porn" argument doesn't fly here. Unless you prove that pornography, which did not exist in the days of biblical writing, is inherently sinful to look at in all situations, you don't have a claim to defend. You're saying it like it's a closed case issue, I'm saying it's not, and it's complicated.

2: You sound young, and unmarried. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are not and have never been married.

Married couples will often have trouble with their sex lives. Christians especially. There's often a lot of sexual frustration between couples who have both been virgins up till marriage. A well known scenario exists when both people want sex, or one has a diminished sex drive, but they don't have it often. This eventually leads to feuding through bent up frustration, and has been known to break a marriage in more ways than one.

When a couple watches it together with the full intent to inspire the mood, they aren't doing the same thing as someone who watches it alone. It's a joint effort to fix a problem they both have, and mend a real problem in their relationship.

3:You are doing something which I find incredibly annoying. In particular, you're quoting scripture that doesn't support your argument, and quoting several which have nothing to do with it.

Psalm 119:9 has nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

Matthew 5:28 is repeating a concept I've based my entire post on.

1 Corinthians 6:18 says "flee sexual immorality," but you've yet to prove that the situation I've stated even qualifies as sexual immorality

Hebrews 13:4 has a vague attachment to the issue, but it falls in the problem of your previous quote which, once again, you've yet to prove your assumption.

Galations 5:19 has even less to do with it. You almost come off as saying my stance is "sexual immorality is fine," which is not the case.


4: You make the slippery slope assumption. You say A implies B will also happen, in this case, looking at pornography will inspire one to seek out extramarital sex, but I say that's hogwash. If a married couple watches porn with eachother, It's a private thing between the two of them, and the intent to do so was to keep a private thing between the two of them. Having bad intent certainly could cause this issue, but that isn't the inherent problem. If a couple does so with full intent to improve their sex life, there is nothing wrong with it. Heck, many of them do it just to learn new moves to please their partner.


Look, I understand where you're coming from with this, but I'm going to have to disagree because you're making far too many assumptions, and supporting none of them.  

[Aporeia]

kesuke uchiha

False Dichotomy

Nudity and lust are not inherently synonymous. While difficult, especially in a sexually repressed culture as our own, to look at the opposite sex nude without sexual thoughts, it is indeed possible, and to many degrees natural. In fact, utter fear of nudity is somewhat of a recent thing. Even the catholic church during it's "crazy days" of murdering anyone who so much as coughed without their permission, was hanging portraits of nude men and women about unabashedly, and harboring statues depicting very roman ideals of nudity and beauty. It's partially complicated because lust is not an absolute factor. You can look at a nude person of the opposite sex and not lust, just as you can look at a fully clothed on, and sin every bit as much as if you were at a strip club. It's more complicated than that.

On another scope, while I do think that looking at what is obviously porn, and of a provocative/sexual manner is generally sinful, it's not because of an inherent decree or unavoidable statute. For examples, many married couples watch porn in order to get them in the mood, and is to some degree healthy for their sex life, which is not at all sinful in its intent.

My point is it's a complex issue, and stating things in exact values is not going to help anyone understand it. I believe when a situation of looking at pornography is sinful, there's really no question about it because there isn't a way around the issue of lust. There are situations which are excluded solely for the purpose that they don't follow the methodology which makes it sinful. That's not a justification to look at it whenever and wherever, it's an objective view over the reality of the subject, and why it's more complex than always sinful, all the time, such an unswerving assumption is more harmful on a societal basis than it is beneficial, even if it appears under the guise of precaution.

well said...
I have always been taught that sex is a wonderful girft that God gives a man and woman who are bound by thousands of years of tradition and law...both mans law and Gods....aka marriage.
to induldge in pornography even if it was between a man and his wife...is still wrong....you would still be taking in and sharing that experience therefore stealing Gods gift just as they would be defileing it....
so...I guess...if you really want to get down to it...maybe...just maybe...the only kind of porn you could have...is between you and your wife...that the both of you made...and ONLY you watch....even then...its probobly not a good idea....and the whole thing is questionable...
what do you guys think?

Your ellipses are hurting my eyes. Mind toning it down a little?  

[Aquatic_blue]

False Dichotomy

Aquatic_blue

False Dichotomy

Nudity and lust are not inherently synonymous. While difficult, especially in a sexually repressed culture as our own, to look at the opposite sex nude without sexual thoughts, it is indeed possible, and to many degrees natural. In fact, utter fear of nudity is somewhat of a recent thing. Even the catholic church during it's "crazy days" of murdering anyone who so much as coughed without their permission, was hanging portraits of nude men and women about unabashedly, and harboring statues depicting very roman ideals of nudity and beauty. It's partially complicated because lust is not an absolute factor. You can look at a nude person of the opposite sex and not lust, just as you can look at a fully clothed on, and sin every bit as much as if you were at a strip club. It's more complicated than that.

On another scope, while I do think that looking at what is obviously porn, and of a provocative/sexual manner is generally sinful, it's not because of an inherent decree or unavoidable statute. For examples, many married couples watch porn in order to get them in the mood, and is to some degree healthy for their sex life, which is not at all sinful in its intent.

My point is it's a complex issue, and stating things in exact values is not going to help anyone understand it. I believe when a situation of looking at pornography is sinful, there's really no question about it because there isn't a way around the issue of lust. There are situations which are excluded solely for the purpose that they don't follow the methodology which makes it sinful. That's not a justification to look at it whenever and wherever, it's an objective view over the reality of the subject, and why it's more complex than always sinful, all the time, such an unswerving assumption is more harmful on a societal basis than it is beneficial, even if it appears under the guise of precaution.

I will have to kindly disagree that married couples should have right of way to watch porn. Porn is porn, no matter who watches it. When a married couple watches porn, one may be thinking/lusting after those on the television or computers screen rather than their own spouse. Married couples should be able to get each other in the mood on their own - finding each others likes and dislikes in the process. Looking at porn can be harmful to a marriage and destroy it. Pornography is dangerous to whoever views it - especially married couples. Pornography can cause a couple to have guilt, unrealistic expectations during sex, and addictive behaviors to it. Unrealistic expectations is difficult because one or both people in a marriage will expect things that aren't going to happen in the bedroom, which can lead to decreased satisfaction. Also, pornography - if viewed enough can lead to a desensitization to it or twisted mind set to make you think that sex and love don't go together. Some may also lead to believe that people can have a great time having sex with however many people they want to. Pornography shows people having sex all the time as if they don't have some sexual disease and that there are no consequences for having irresponsible sexual relations. Some people may even fail to see that rape is a crime and more of a "fun and exciting experience" because it's a spontaneous action. Some may even not respect the bodies of their spouse and handle each other with care because in pornography they smack each other around, tell each other what to do, try to dominate each other, and boss each other around.

It's nice to remember important verses such as these:

Psalm 119:9 NIV:

How can a young person stay on the path of purity?
By living according to your word.

Matthew 5:28 NIV:

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

1 Corinthians 6:18 - 20 NIV:

Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

Hebrews 13:4 NIV:

Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

Galatians 5:19 - 21 NIV:

The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

*God designed the marriage between a man and woman to be a sacred union. Sex is a gift from God, but is only beautiful if used properly meaning only after marriage and between that married couple.

The book Song of Songs, which is also known as Song of Solomon, is a book on sex and the beauty God intended for it between a man and wife. It's definitely worth a read.

You make a number of broad, sweeping assumptions which are not biblically enforced or alluded to.

1: The "porn is porn" argument doesn't fly here. Unless you prove that pornography, which did not exist in the days of biblical writing, is inherently sinful to look at in all situations, you don't have a claim to defend. You're saying it like it's a closed case issue, I'm saying it's not, and it's complicated.

2: You sound young, and unmarried. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are not and have never been married.

Married couples will often have trouble with their sex lives. Christians especially. There's often a lot of sexual frustration between couples who have both been virgins up till marriage. A well known scenario exists when both people want sex, or one has a diminished sex drive, but they don't have it often. This eventually leads to feuding through bent up frustration, and has been known to break a marriage in more ways than one.

When a couple watches it together with the full intent to inspire the mood, they aren't doing the same thing as someone who watches it alone. It's a joint effort to fix a problem they both have, and mend a real problem in their relationship.

3:You are doing something which I find incredibly annoying. In particular, you're quoting scripture that doesn't support your argument, and quoting several which have nothing to do with it.

Psalm 119:9 has nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

Matthew 5:28 is repeating a concept I've based my entire post on.

1 Corinthians 6:18 says "flee sexual immorality," but you've yet to prove that the situation I've stated even qualifies as sexual immorality

Hebrews 13:4 has a vague attachment to the issue, but it falls in the problem of your previous quote which, once again, you've yet to prove your assumption.

Galations 5:19 has even less to do with it. You almost come off as saying my stance is "sexual immorality is fine," which is not the case.


4: You make the slippery slope assumption. You say A implies B will also happen, in this case, looking at pornography will inspire one to seek out extramarital sex, but I say that's hogwash. If a married couple watches porn with eachother, It's a private thing between the two of them, and the intent to do so was to keep a private thing between the two of them. Having bad intent certainly could cause this issue, but that isn't the inherent problem. If a couple does so with full intent to improve their sex life, there is nothing wrong with it. Heck, many of them do it just to learn new moves to please their partner.


Look, I understand where you're coming from with this, but I'm going to have to disagree because you're making far too many assumptions, and supporting none of them.

If my point was not valid enough and I was not able to explain it all that well, I apologize. However, my viewpoint on porn remains unchanged. I believe that porn in general is a temptation that taunts everybody in this world. In my mind, it is a closed case issue and I don't see any necessary reason to be watching it in the first place. Also, as Christians, we do not want our actions to cause our brothers and sisters in Christ to fall. I see porn as something that is wrong in general.

I don't appreciate that you automatically made an assumption about my life as you don't not know me personally. It happens to be that I am an adult and I am married.

Every married couple probably has their sexual frustrations at some point. I don't believe that people who aren't virgins have any less sexual frustrations than those who remain virgins until marriage. Although, about sex, there's no use in arguing about it. Sex is a topic that couples should talk to each other about, and also include times they may feel sexually frustrated. Communication between a couple about these topics is incredibly important. There's no use feuding about it if a couple is able to discuss it in a civil manner with their partner and reach an understanding.

I don't believe porn is right for anyone to be watching. People may just claim to be trying to get in the mood, but I believe that couples should be the ones to find each others likes and dislikes and turn each other on and concentrate on each other during a sexual bond. Some may use porn as a crutch for a problem or perhaps sexual dysfunction in their relationship, but this can be solved if one looks to Jesus Christ, prays about it, and look for other methods together as a couple. I don't believe porn should solve problems between couples because it lacks a form of communication that may be necessary to address a certain problem.


Matthew 5:28 to me doesn't sound like anything you have been trying to address. Lust is a sin and can cause a problem for those watching porn. Instead of concentrating in getting in the mood - they may be lusting in their heart after people on the screen because perhaps they think to themselves, "Wow, I wish my partner looked like that." or, "Those people on the screen look incredibly attractive." Our spouses should be the source and outlet of attraction towards each other and nothing else should disrupt that communication.

I apologize if I quote scripture that didn't exactly support what I was saying well enough. Sometimes scripture can be difficult to correlate to ideas because some people interpret the Bible differently than others. I apologize if I didn't explain why I posted those scriptures well enough for others to understand.

I also wasn't trying to make what I said an "absolute" statement and saying that if you look at porn then this is how you will think. I apologize if it sounded like that. In a lot of marriages, I believe that porn does pose a threat to cause those types of issues.

I am not trying to change your view point, but simply put mine out there that I don't agree. I know that I will never be able to change anyone's view point. Only a specific person can decide when change is needed and before that, they should pray, read the word, and make sure to determine if God wants that change in your life.  

[Aporeia]

Aquatic_blue

False Dichotomy

Aquatic_blue

False Dichotomy

Nudity and lust are not inherently synonymous. While difficult, especially in a sexually repressed culture as our own, to look at the opposite sex nude without sexual thoughts, it is indeed possible, and to many degrees natural. In fact, utter fear of nudity is somewhat of a recent thing. Even the catholic church during it's "crazy days" of murdering anyone who so much as coughed without their permission, was hanging portraits of nude men and women about unabashedly, and harboring statues depicting very roman ideals of nudity and beauty. It's partially complicated because lust is not an absolute factor. You can look at a nude person of the opposite sex and not lust, just as you can look at a fully clothed on, and sin every bit as much as if you were at a strip club. It's more complicated than that.

On another scope, while I do think that looking at what is obviously porn, and of a provocative/sexual manner is generally sinful, it's not because of an inherent decree or unavoidable statute. For examples, many married couples watch porn in order to get them in the mood, and is to some degree healthy for their sex life, which is not at all sinful in its intent.

My point is it's a complex issue, and stating things in exact values is not going to help anyone understand it. I believe when a situation of looking at pornography is sinful, there's really no question about it because there isn't a way around the issue of lust. There are situations which are excluded solely for the purpose that they don't follow the methodology which makes it sinful. That's not a justification to look at it whenever and wherever, it's an objective view over the reality of the subject, and why it's more complex than always sinful, all the time, such an unswerving assumption is more harmful on a societal basis than it is beneficial, even if it appears under the guise of precaution.

I will have to kindly disagree that married couples should have right of way to watch porn. Porn is porn, no matter who watches it. When a married couple watches porn, one may be thinking/lusting after those on the television or computers screen rather than their own spouse. Married couples should be able to get each other in the mood on their own - finding each others likes and dislikes in the process. Looking at porn can be harmful to a marriage and destroy it. Pornography is dangerous to whoever views it - especially married couples. Pornography can cause a couple to have guilt, unrealistic expectations during sex, and addictive behaviors to it. Unrealistic expectations is difficult because one or both people in a marriage will expect things that aren't going to happen in the bedroom, which can lead to decreased satisfaction. Also, pornography - if viewed enough can lead to a desensitization to it or twisted mind set to make you think that sex and love don't go together. Some may also lead to believe that people can have a great time having sex with however many people they want to. Pornography shows people having sex all the time as if they don't have some sexual disease and that there are no consequences for having irresponsible sexual relations. Some people may even fail to see that rape is a crime and more of a "fun and exciting experience" because it's a spontaneous action. Some may even not respect the bodies of their spouse and handle each other with care because in pornography they smack each other around, tell each other what to do, try to dominate each other, and boss each other around.

It's nice to remember important verses such as these:

Psalm 119:9 NIV:

How can a young person stay on the path of purity?
By living according to your word.

Matthew 5:28 NIV:

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

1 Corinthians 6:18 - 20 NIV:

Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

Hebrews 13:4 NIV:

Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

Galatians 5:19 - 21 NIV:

The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

*God designed the marriage between a man and woman to be a sacred union. Sex is a gift from God, but is only beautiful if used properly meaning only after marriage and between that married couple.

The book Song of Songs, which is also known as Song of Solomon, is a book on sex and the beauty God intended for it between a man and wife. It's definitely worth a read.

You make a number of broad, sweeping assumptions which are not biblically enforced or alluded to.

1: The "porn is porn" argument doesn't fly here. Unless you prove that pornography, which did not exist in the days of biblical writing, is inherently sinful to look at in all situations, you don't have a claim to defend. You're saying it like it's a closed case issue, I'm saying it's not, and it's complicated.

2: You sound young, and unmarried. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are not and have never been married.

Married couples will often have trouble with their sex lives. Christians especially. There's often a lot of sexual frustration between couples who have both been virgins up till marriage. A well known scenario exists when both people want sex, or one has a diminished sex drive, but they don't have it often. This eventually leads to feuding through bent up frustration, and has been known to break a marriage in more ways than one.

When a couple watches it together with the full intent to inspire the mood, they aren't doing the same thing as someone who watches it alone. It's a joint effort to fix a problem they both have, and mend a real problem in their relationship.

3:You are doing something which I find incredibly annoying. In particular, you're quoting scripture that doesn't support your argument, and quoting several which have nothing to do with it.

Psalm 119:9 has nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

Matthew 5:28 is repeating a concept I've based my entire post on.

1 Corinthians 6:18 says "flee sexual immorality," but you've yet to prove that the situation I've stated even qualifies as sexual immorality

Hebrews 13:4 has a vague attachment to the issue, but it falls in the problem of your previous quote which, once again, you've yet to prove your assumption.

Galations 5:19 has even less to do with it. You almost come off as saying my stance is "sexual immorality is fine," which is not the case.


4: You make the slippery slope assumption. You say A implies B will also happen, in this case, looking at pornography will inspire one to seek out extramarital sex, but I say that's hogwash. If a married couple watches porn with eachother, It's a private thing between the two of them, and the intent to do so was to keep a private thing between the two of them. Having bad intent certainly could cause this issue, but that isn't the inherent problem. If a couple does so with full intent to improve their sex life, there is nothing wrong with it. Heck, many of them do it just to learn new moves to please their partner.


Look, I understand where you're coming from with this, but I'm going to have to disagree because you're making far too many assumptions, and supporting none of them.

If my point was not valid enough and I was not able to explain it all that well, I apologize. However, my viewpoint on porn remains unchanged. I believe that porn in general is a temptation that taunts everybody in this world. In my mind, it is a closed case issue and I don't see any necessary reason to be watching it in the first place. Also, as Christians, we do not want our actions to cause our brothers and sisters in Christ to fall. I see porn as something that is wrong in general.

I don't appreciate that you automatically made an assumption about my life as you don't not know me personally. It happens to be that I am an adult and I am married.

Every married couple probably has their sexual frustrations at some point. I don't believe that people who aren't virgins have any less sexual frustrations than those who remain virgins until marriage. Although, about sex, there's no use in arguing about it. Sex is a topic that couples should talk to each other about, and also include times they may feel sexually frustrated. Communication between a couple about these topics is incredibly important. There's no use feuding about it if a couple is able to discuss it in a civil manner with their partner and reach an understanding.

I don't believe porn is right for anyone to be watching. People may just claim to be trying to get in the mood, but I believe that couples should be the ones to find each others likes and dislikes and turn each other on and concentrate on each other during a sexual bond. Some may use porn as a crutch for a problem or perhaps sexual dysfunction in their relationship, but this can be solved if one looks to Jesus Christ, prays about it, and look for other methods together as a couple. I don't believe porn should solve problems between couples because it lacks a form of communication that may be necessary to address a certain problem.


Matthew 5:28 to me doesn't sound like anything you have been trying to address. Lust is a sin and can cause a problem for those watching porn. Instead of concentrating in getting in the mood - they may be lusting in their heart after people on the screen because perhaps they think to themselves, "Wow, I wish my partner looked like that." or, "Those people on the screen look incredibly attractive." Our spouses should be the source and outlet of attraction towards each other and nothing else should disrupt that communication.

I apologize if I quote scripture that didn't exactly support what I was saying well enough. Sometimes scripture can be difficult to correlate to ideas because some people interpret the Bible differently than others. I apologize if I didn't explain why I posted those scriptures well enough for others to understand.

I also wasn't trying to make what I said an "absolute" statement and saying that if you look at porn then this is how you will think. I apologize if it sounded like that. In a lot of marriages, I believe that porn does pose a threat to cause those types of issues.

I am not trying to change your view point, but simply put mine out there that I don't agree. I know that I will never be able to change anyone's view point. Only a specific person can decide when change is needed and before that, they should pray, read the word, and make sure to determine if God wants that change in your life.

Well, that was certainly a more civil response than I expected. Normally people lash out when I oppose them like that. Bravo indeed, we can speak on a mature level. Also, I'll apologize for my assumption of you. I've had far less civil conversations with people on subjects like these before, and typically they followed a pattern I thought was beginning to see here.

Anyways, back to the subject.

I do have a slightly more complex view that might help to paint a clearer picture. Many couples will come to the realization that neither individual is a perfect image of their imagination and desires. Complacency sets in, frustration arises, many couples catch this early and try to find ways solve the problem before it causes serious issues between them, and try to become closer.

The thing is, porn is fantasy, and it isn't real sex to the viewers. It's not like they're going out and literally having sex with someone else. That isn't to say extramarital lust can't break a marriage, but when a couple agrees on terms, and has a unified intent, there isn't an issue. There isn't inherently a lust for the people on screen. There isn't inherently a desire to seek sex outside of marriage. There isn't an inherent desire to break marital vows or sin here.

What applies in some situations doesn't apply here, at least not by default. Yes, it can cause problems, but so can many other things, notedly the issue I described above.

As a person who has a lot of firsthand experience and a long running issue with lust, you start to see these things when struggling with the sin yourself.

I don't see any difference between watching porn and eyeballing a girl from across the room. The problem is internal here, not external. What makes it sinful is the individual, not the experience. Every time I have a falling out, porn was never the origin of the problem, though it frequently punctuated my recognition of a problem.

No, the problem isn't porn, the issue of lust exists regardless of porn, and a much more internal, and deep seeded vice is to blame.

I, personally, say it's dangerous, and is wise to leave it untouched. I will not say, however, that others who have used it in a separate intent are guilty of the same sin. My own failings have revealed that much to me.  

[kesuke uchiha]

False Dichotomy

kesuke uchiha

False Dichotomy

Nudity and lust are not inherently synonymous. While difficult, especially in a sexually repressed culture as our own, to look at the opposite sex nude without sexual thoughts, it is indeed possible, and to many degrees natural. In fact, utter fear of nudity is somewhat of a recent thing. Even the catholic church during it's "crazy days" of murdering anyone who so much as coughed without their permission, was hanging portraits of nude men and women about unabashedly, and harboring statues depicting very roman ideals of nudity and beauty. It's partially complicated because lust is not an absolute factor. You can look at a nude person of the opposite sex and not lust, just as you can look at a fully clothed on, and sin every bit as much as if you were at a strip club. It's more complicated than that.

On another scope, while I do think that looking at what is obviously porn, and of a provocative/sexual manner is generally sinful, it's not because of an inherent decree or unavoidable statute. For examples, many married couples watch porn in order to get them in the mood, and is to some degree healthy for their sex life, which is not at all sinful in its intent.

My point is it's a complex issue, and stating things in exact values is not going to help anyone understand it. I believe when a situation of looking at pornography is sinful, there's really no question about it because there isn't a way around the issue of lust. There are situations which are excluded solely for the purpose that they don't follow the methodology which makes it sinful. That's not a justification to look at it whenever and wherever, it's an objective view over the reality of the subject, and why it's more complex than always sinful, all the time, such an unswerving assumption is more harmful on a societal basis than it is beneficial, even if it appears under the guise of precaution.

well said...
I have always been taught that sex is a wonderful girft that God gives a man and woman who are bound by thousands of years of tradition and law...both mans law and Gods....aka marriage.
to induldge in pornography even if it was between a man and his wife...is still wrong....you would still be taking in and sharing that experience therefore stealing Gods gift just as they would be defileing it....
so...I guess...if you really want to get down to it...maybe...just maybe...the only kind of porn you could have...is between you and your wife...that the both of you made...and ONLY you watch....even then...its probobly not a good idea....and the whole thing is questionable...
what do you guys think?

Your ellipses are hurting my eyes. Mind toning it down a little?

huh? O_o??  

[Aporeia]

kesuke uchiha

False Dichotomy

kesuke uchiha

False Dichotomy

Nudity and lust are not inherently synonymous. While difficult, especially in a sexually repressed culture as our own, to look at the opposite sex nude without sexual thoughts, it is indeed possible, and to many degrees natural. In fact, utter fear of nudity is somewhat of a recent thing. Even the catholic church during it's "crazy days" of murdering anyone who so much as coughed without their permission, was hanging portraits of nude men and women about unabashedly, and harboring statues depicting very roman ideals of nudity and beauty. It's partially complicated because lust is not an absolute factor. You can look at a nude person of the opposite sex and not lust, just as you can look at a fully clothed on, and sin every bit as much as if you were at a strip club. It's more complicated than that.

On another scope, while I do think that looking at what is obviously porn, and of a provocative/sexual manner is generally sinful, it's not because of an inherent decree or unavoidable statute. For examples, many married couples watch porn in order to get them in the mood, and is to some degree healthy for their sex life, which is not at all sinful in its intent.

My point is it's a complex issue, and stating things in exact values is not going to help anyone understand it. I believe when a situation of looking at pornography is sinful, there's really no question about it because there isn't a way around the issue of lust. There are situations which are excluded solely for the purpose that they don't follow the methodology which makes it sinful. That's not a justification to look at it whenever and wherever, it's an objective view over the reality of the subject, and why it's more complex than always sinful, all the time, such an unswerving assumption is more harmful on a societal basis than it is beneficial, even if it appears under the guise of precaution.

well said...
I have always been taught that sex is a wonderful girft that God gives a man and woman who are bound by thousands of years of tradition and law...both mans law and Gods....aka marriage.
to induldge in pornography even if it was between a man and his wife...is still wrong....you would still be taking in and sharing that experience therefore stealing Gods gift just as they would be defileing it....
so...I guess...if you really want to get down to it...maybe...just maybe...the only kind of porn you could have...is between you and your wife...that the both of you made...and ONLY you watch....even then...its probobly not a good idea....and the whole thing is questionable...
what do you guys think?

Your ellipses are hurting my eyes. Mind toning it down a little?

huh? O_o??

Try... doing... this... less...  

[kesuke uchiha]

False Dichotomy

kesuke uchiha

False Dichotomy

kesuke uchiha

False Dichotomy

Nudity and lust are not inherently synonymous. While difficult, especially in a sexually repressed culture as our own, to look at the opposite sex nude without sexual thoughts, it is indeed possible, and to many degrees natural. In fact, utter fear of nudity is somewhat of a recent thing. Even the catholic church during it's "crazy days" of murdering anyone who so much as coughed without their permission, was hanging portraits of nude men and women about unabashedly, and harboring statues depicting very roman ideals of nudity and beauty. It's partially complicated because lust is not an absolute factor. You can look at a nude person of the opposite sex and not lust, just as you can look at a fully clothed on, and sin every bit as much as if you were at a strip club. It's more complicated than that.

On another scope, while I do think that looking at what is obviously porn, and of a provocative/sexual manner is generally sinful, it's not because of an inherent decree or unavoidable statute. For examples, many married couples watch porn in order to get them in the mood, and is to some degree healthy for their sex life, which is not at all sinful in its intent.

My point is it's a complex issue, and stating things in exact values is not going to help anyone understand it. I believe when a situation of looking at pornography is sinful, there's really no question about it because there isn't a way around the issue of lust. There are situations which are excluded solely for the purpose that they don't follow the methodology which makes it sinful. That's not a justification to look at it whenever and wherever, it's an objective view over the reality of the subject, and why it's more complex than always sinful, all the time, such an unswerving assumption is more harmful on a societal basis than it is beneficial, even if it appears under the guise of precaution.

well said...
I have always been taught that sex is a wonderful girft that God gives a man and woman who are bound by thousands of years of tradition and law...both mans law and Gods....aka marriage.
to induldge in pornography even if it was between a man and his wife...is still wrong....you would still be taking in and sharing that experience therefore stealing Gods gift just as they would be defileing it....
so...I guess...if you really want to get down to it...maybe...just maybe...the only kind of porn you could have...is between you and your wife...that the both of you made...and ONLY you watch....even then...its probobly not a good idea....and the whole thing is questionable...
what do you guys think?

Your ellipses are hurting my eyes. Mind toning it down a little?

huh? O_o??

Try... doing... this... less...

what speak?
if so that is kinda rude