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Cowgirl-with-heart

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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:30 pm

Miles To Go

Ok update.

We took her to the vet. But I was more than disappointed with the experience.
They didn't do any diagnostics. Which is the main reason I wanted to go, and asap.

After a feel-over the vet said that it's probably pancreas cancer. But her reasoning was less than helpful:
1) the quick onset of the symptoms
2) the fact that she has diarrhea (she claimed that they usually don't have bowel movements AT ALL when there's a blockage)
3) cancer is common in ferrets
4) Shakiness (although given that she hasn't EATEN or drank in 2 days, aside from the minor forcefeedings last night and today, what would anyone expect)

And I was particularly irked that when she said if she doesn't get better within 3 days, we will prob have to come back and have her euthanized. =/
We were there for over 2 hours, and the vet only spent 5 minutes with us.

There were some bonuses though.
We got her a hydration shot. She's already a lot perkier.
The vet recommended us to make "Duck Soup" to help her nutrition bounce back. And the ferret is actually willing to eat it- it's the first thing she's eaten of her own will. She likes it so much she actually bit my finger while eating it.

My mom and I still think there was some sort of blockage, the Cancer theory is pretty ludicrous to us at this point. But then again it's also the last thing I want it to be so maybe my wishful hoping is making me bias.

I am glad she is eating again! hopefully it is not cancer 3 is a little young, but it is not unheard of, hopefully she just had an upset stomach from the twizzler

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:45 pm

Miles To Go

Ok update.

We took her to the vet. But I was more than disappointed with the experience.
They didn't do any diagnostics. Which is the main reason I wanted to go, and asap.

After a feel-over the vet said that it's probably pancreas cancer. But her reasoning was less than helpful:
1) the quick onset of the symptoms
2) the fact that she has diarrhea (she claimed that they usually don't have bowel movements AT ALL when there's a blockage)
3) cancer is common in ferrets
4) Shakiness (although given that she hasn't EATEN or drank in 2 days, aside from the minor forcefeedings last night and today, what would anyone expect)

And I was particularly irked that when she said if she doesn't get better within 3 days, we will prob have to come back and have her euthanized. =/
We were there for over 2 hours, and the vet only spent 5 minutes with us.

There were some bonuses though.
We got her a hydration shot. She's already a lot perkier.
The vet recommended us to make "Duck Soup" to help her nutrition bounce back. And the ferret is actually willing to eat it- it's the first thing she's eaten of her own will. She likes it so much she actually bit my finger while eating it.

My mom and I still think there was some sort of blockage, the Cancer theory is pretty ludicrous to us at this point. But then again it's also the last thing I want it to be so maybe my wishful hoping is making me bias.

Glad she's doing a bit better Miles. Been thinking about you guys all day.

Wow, you are right to be unsatisfied with that experience! I assume that by pancreatic cancer she means Insulinoma. If she suspected Insulinoma she should have recommended a Blood Glucose test to confirm it. I don't think Insulinoma is generally diagnosed by palpation as I imagine finding the nodes [which can be only a few mm in size] in such a manner would be unreliable...and even if she did have Insulinoma it shouldn't be a case of 'bring her back in three days to be euthanised if she doesn't recover by herself', she should have been talking about starting her on Prednisone and cutting carbohydrates from her diet.
Also, Insulinoma is a disease which usually slowly progresses over time, the symptoms increasing in severity.
Did she show any signs of shaky/weak hind legs, lethargy, drooling or staring before? Vomiting isn't generally associated with Insulinoma ferts.

Ferrets with complete blockages can not pass excretment, however ferrets with partial blockages can. This type of stool is usually thin and ribbon like, however if the blockage is caused by a foodstuff that is also upsetting to the digestive system then there is no reason this could not be passed in the form of diarrhea.
I would expect any ferret that hadn't drank in two days to be extremely weak and wobbly. Supported by her perking up once rehydrated.
I agree with you. I think the case is still strong for a blockage. Keep the fluids and whatever nutrition she will take up to her. If it is Insulinoma it it presenting in an atypical manner.

Think you need to find a new vet, that one absolutely robbed you. Demand your money back?

Skeksis

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Miles To Go

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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:47 pm

Does Insulinoma cause them to stop eating? I've read bits and pieces about it before, mostly lethargy and hairloss, as well as diarrhea, but I haven't seen any article mention refusal to eat. The vet said that she would do the glucose test if it wasn't better in 3 days. "And then it would be time to make some big decisions maybe to euthanize her"

She did not show any signs of wobblyness until yesterday (a few days into the no-eating)

Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:00 pm

Well according to my mom Fruitcake (that's her name) wouldn't eat again this morning.

I just tried feeding her and at first she wouldn't take anything. But after I got her to taste it, she ate all the Nutri-Cal I gave her.

I was also able to get her to drink 3/4 CC via syringe. More than I can usually get her to hold still for.

I still haven't seen her voluntarily eat food, but after I put her back in the pen I saw her drink water on her own several times. Which is the first time I've seen her do that in the past few days. She did go to the food like she was going to or wanted to eat it, but then she walked away.

Miles To Go

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Skeksis

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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:23 pm

If an Insulinomic ferret goes too long without food they will become extremely lethargic and weak- kinda like Hypoglycemia for us. A ferret that gets to this point may feel too weak/ill to want food as it will have very little energy. But that doesn't sound like what your Fruitcake is experiencing. It's less of a 'I'm too tired to get out of bed to eat' and more a 'I go up to my foodbowl because I'm hungry but I don't eat because of X reason' with her, from what you've described.

Hairloss is generally associated with Adrenal Disease, not Insulinoma.
Common Insulinoma symptoms:
-Weight loss
-lethargy
-Decreased appetite
-Staring into space
-Hind end weakness
-Poor co-ordination
-Red or dark pink nose, paw pads
-Excessive salivation and pawing at mouth
-Seizures that can lead to coma

Blockage Symptoms
-vomiting
-poor appetite or no appetite (even refusing treats and not drinking water)
-no stool, skinny (narrow) stool or loose stool (diarrhea)
-straining to defecate
-dehydration (from not drinking)
-hypoglycemia (low blood sugar from not eating)
-lethargy
-signs of abdominal pain (pawing at mouth, grinding teeth)

Two other red flags for a possible intestinal blockage are:

-a partially chewed item in your home
-bits of a foreign object in your ferret's stool

Blockage symptoms from here: http://www.ferretnews.com/issues/ferret-news-65.html

It is a good sign that she is drinking by herself. Really glad to hear that. 3nodding Can you get lactose free pet milk? Most ferrets love it and it is very good for getting ill ferrets to drink. Di-Vetelact is also very good if you can get it. Do you have any vaseline or hairball remedy you could give her?

Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:39 pm

I can pick up the milk when I get her chicken baby food. Really a this point if its good for her and she might eat it, we'll try it.

As far as vaseline/hairball stuff, what kind and how much? And which would be better, cuz I could get either one.
We've got some hairball medicine for the cats but I dont want to give her something that might harm her since its for cats not ferts, also the dosing amount.

Miles To Go

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Krissim Klaw
Crew

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Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:08 am

Wow, your vet sounds like a turd. Are their any other exotic vets in the area you could try out?

Insulinoma/pancreatic cancer is often very manageable, especially in younger ferrets so they shouldn't be screaming euthanasia on a whim. Anytime I have a vet that throws out that option without even having an idea what is up, I get serious doubts about. Unless money is so tight you wanted to wait and see if you could avoid it, I probably would have done full bloodwork ups and from there decided if more extensive testing was needed.

My boy lived over a year and half with insulinoma before I had to have him put down because the spread and size of the cancer tumor finally started to effect his quality of life too much. If it weren't for the tumor however the actual management of the insulinoma itself was not much of a problem at all.

I hope you can figure out what is up. *Hugs.*

Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:12 pm

She started eating hard foods again today, on her own.

It seems like she's getting better, but something still feels very off.
She keeps attacking any other ferret that gets in her path. Before it was only if they came to her, but now she's just walking up to them and starting it.
For instance, Twix was just sleeping in the hammock, Fruity climbed up, bit her, then pushed her off. Which is really out of character, Fruity was the most lovey of our ferrets.

I'm thinking separation might be better at this point. It would also make it easier to monitor her food. In the meantime while her food situation is stable, I am going to see if I can find a different vet.

Thank you everyone for your support this weekend. I really do appreciate it. heart

Miles To Go

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