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 Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:02 pm
I think Hot Topic is a good source for people that can't afford/purchase the name brand clothing. I personally don't buy their clothes because I am lucky enough to buy name brand, but I would never bash/make fun of anybody just because they can't buy Moitie, Baby, or whatever.
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Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:33 pm
I don't have anything against them for their Loli clothing, but their other so called "gothic clothing". I have something against that and the people who buy into it only because they call it "gothic" and then give the word "Gothic" a bad reputation by doing things like pretending to be vampires and drinking blood and dressing in bondage clothing, parading around saying "Look, we're gothic", and otherwise acting (I dare use the word) idiotic and irrational. This is because the "Gothic" they're supposedly portarying isn't at all gothic, it's people bastardizing punk with true gothic (And by true gothic, I mean 18th century Europe, etc etc, which is what Loli portrays) by calling it gothic. I have something against this, because I think these people show ignorcance of the meaning, origin, and true style of gothic (as I've used this analogy before,"Like dressing up in a pink too-too and calling yourself 'samurai'"). The reason I dislike this is because anyone who even somewhat resembles what the general populace knows a 'gothic' (which is not really gothic) automatically assumes this bad reputation (and I believe there is a thread in this guild which discusses the effects of people who are lolis say they are gothic and are treated poorly because of assuming the 'gothic' reputation mentioned above). Even if they just say they like goth, or, in the case of Loli/true goth, they ARE gothic, they still assume this bad reputation of something that they're not, and the general missunderstanding of what "gothic" really is. People don't see the true beauty, elegance, class, and sophistication of what true gothic is, because they have this other impression of what gothic is from people who call themselves that, and only portray darkness, death, gore, and lust, all in all lacking class. Is it the general populace's fault, or the fault of these people who behave irrationally and call themselves something they're not in front of the general populace?
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:58 am
mangacatgirl namida_no_chi I don't have anything against them for their Loli clothing, but their other so called "gothic clothing". I have something against that and the people who buy into it only because they call it "gothic" and then give the word "Gothic" a bad reputation by doing things like pretending to be vampires and drinking blood and dressing in bondage clothing, parading around saying "Look, we're gothic", and otherwise acting (I dare use the word) idiotic and irrational. This is because the "Gothic" they're supposedly portarying isn't at all gothic, it's people bastardizing punk with true gothic (And by true gothic, I mean 18th century Europe, etc etc, which is what Loli portrays) by calling it gothic. I have something against this, because I think these people show ignorcance of the meaning, origin, and true style of gothic (as I've used this analogy before,"Like dressing up in a pink too-too and calling yourself 'samurai'"). The reason I dislike this is because anyone who even somewhat resembles what the general populace knows a 'gothic' (which is not really gothic) automatically assumes this bad reputation (and I believe there is a thread in this guild which discusses the effects of people who are lolis say they are gothic and are treated poorly because of assuming the 'gothic' reputation mentioned above). Even if they just say they like goth, or, in the case of Loli/true goth, they ARE gothic, they still assume this bad reputation of something that they're not, and the general missunderstanding of what "gothic" really is. People don't see the true beauty, elegance, class, and sophistication of what true gothic is, because they have this other impression of what gothic is from people who call themselves that, and only portray darkness, death, gore, and lust, all in all lacking class. Is it the general populace's fault, or the fault of these people who behave irrationally and call themselves something they're not in front of the general populace? The interesting thing about that is that hot topic doesn't even call that stuff gothic/goth. The people that shop there do. So it shouldn't really be hot topic you dislike but the people that buy clothes from there and call the clothing goth. The only items that have gothic in the name are some grumpy bear giiftware. Which I think is because he's holding a black umbrella/parasol and in a detailed swirly circle that looks like an old broach. People have their own idea of what goth is. They see HT clothes and assume that they must be goth clothes because they are black (And sadly that's what most teens think goth means). But you have to keep in mind that Hot Topic never actually said they were goth items. Agreed, Hot Topic was once all 'goth' clothes, mind you the difference in goth, the modern term and gothic the era term. Where currently you have a few gothic items, a few goth pieces, the slightly rarer neo punk piece, and a pretty good chunk of the retro punk (note: there is a difference in retro punk and neo punk) and the rest is band t-shirts, character merch and such. But at the same time we must remember it was places like pandimunioum, that first sold what was goth clothes, and they sold gothic as well and they noted the difference in signs around the store (Like mini lessons it's a great store) where Hot Topic is all about the band shirts. On the side I'm glad to see some real discussion among our loli's here. To think over 200 members and most days our threads don't move much.
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:06 am
mangacatgirl The interesting thing about that is that hot topic doesn't even call that stuff gothic/goth. The people that shop there do. So it shouldn't really be hot topic you dislike but the people that buy clothes from there and call the clothing goth. The only items that have gothic in the name are some grumpy bear giiftware. Which I think is because he's holding a black umbrella/parasol and in a detailed swirly circle that looks like an old broach. People have their own idea of what goth is. namida_no_chi I don't have anything against them for their Loli clothing, but their other so called "gothic clothing". I have something against that and the people who buy into it only because they call it "gothic" and then give the word "Gothic" a bad reputation by doing things like pretending to be vampires and drinking blood and dressing in bondage clothing, parading around saying "Look, we're gothic", and otherwise acting (I dare use the word) idiotic and irrational mangacatgirl They see HT clothes and assume that they must be goth clothes because they are black (And sadly that's what most teens think goth means). But you have to keep in mind that Hot Topic never actually said they were goth items. Actually, most HT clothing is super baggy, pants and skirts with chains and belts on them(portaying bondagish style), (as said above) resembling vampire cloths (at least some dresses), band t-shirts of bands who promote 'fake goth', spikey jewelry and belts (reminiscent of bondage clothing), cloths with skulls and skeletons on them (and otherwise cloths promoting gore and death, as I said in my original post). That could probably be why people see HT clothing and this is is 'gothic' (fake gothic, rather), because like I said, that's what fake goths wear, and those cloths portray the things I mentioned in my original post that justify fake goth. All the things I mentioned have nohing to do with true goth, as in the Loli style. I don't recall ever hearing about people in 18th century Europe wearing things like that (which is one of the meanings of the term "gothic"). maeanalda Agreed, Hot Topic was once all 'goth' clothes, mind you the difference in goth, the modern term and gothic the era term. Yes, the is a huge difference in the two terms. The modern meaning of the term doesn't in any ways reflect the true meaning of the actual word. namida_no_chi as I've used this analogy before,"Like dressing up in a pink too-too and calling yourself 'samurai'" You can't just take one word, call yourself that, and portray something totally unlike it without showing a large degree of ignorance. maeanalda Where currently you have a few gothic items, a few goth pieces, the slightly rarer neo punk piece, and a pretty good chunk of the retro punk (note: there is a difference in retro punk and neo punk) and the rest is band t-shirts, character merch and such. But at the same time we must remember it was places like pandimunioum, that first sold what was goth clothes, and they sold gothic as well and they noted the difference in signs around the store (Like mini lessons it's a great store) where Hot Topic is all about the band shirts. On the side I'm glad to see some real discussion among our loli's here. To think over 200 members and most days our threads don't move much. (see what I said to mangacatgirl above)
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:58 am
maybe its a regional thing cuz the Hot topics here are mostly anime shirts, emo crap and band gear.
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:33 pm
Akemi-sama maybe its a regional thing cuz the Hot topics here are mostly anime shirts, emo crap and band gear.
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:52 pm
mangacatgirl See this is where the problem is. Hot Topic does not call bondage things goth namida_no_chi ... I have something against that and the people who buy into it only because they call it "gothic" and then give the word "Gothic" a bad reputation... mangacatgirl (Also, I don't recall vampires wearing big baggy bondage pants... ever...) namida_no_chi Actually, most HT clothing is super baggy, pants and skirts with chains and belts on them (portaying bondagish style) , (as said above) resembling vampire cloths (at least some dresses) Note not only that several times did I mention these as separate examples, but the comma there indicated a series. Not nessecarily meaning that all the descriptions of their clothing was all referring to one particular clothing item. Also note that I did say,"at least some dresses" which clearly isn't referring to baggy pants. I just gave baggy pants with chains as a separate exmple of the kind of clothing they have there which are fake goth. mangacatgirl if a person sees it and calls it goth, that is that person's problem... not Hot Topic's. namida_no_chi Is it the general populace's fault, or the fault of these people who behave irrationally and call themselves something they're not in front of the general populace? If these people go around wearing hot topic-ish cloths, and say it's goth, is that really the fault of the person who sees HT cloths and says,"hey, that's goth clothing"? HT aren't the only ones who do it either. They just seem to be the more mainstream or well known shop who does it. They do sell cloths strikingly similar to other stores which in fact call their cloths gothic. Is it that broad of an assumption to make for the average person? mangacatgirl Most people seem to dislike hot topic because it sells fake goth clothes... but it just sells clothes... It doesn't matter what clique claims it as their own. It sells cloths which are bought by people who do what I mentioned in my first post. Problem with that theory is, cloths aren't the only 'fake goth' things they sell. mangacatgirl Also I have no idea what bands that promote fake goth would be... but I'm sure they don't sell those band shirts because of some big fake goth hot topic conspiracy. They sell shirts from so many bands it boggles the mind... from queen to metallica, and green day to snoop dog... none of which I think promotes fake goths... It only took me about 2 minutes to find all these shirts, and all of them fall under the specifications of fake goth which I named. I know some of the bands at HT were fake goth too (like slipknot for example), but these shirts spacifically fall under what I was talking about. mangacatgirl I don't know... this whole "fake goth" thing confuses the hell out of me. The people who shop at my HT are anyone from old ladies to preps and drag queens... And I've never heard any of them claim to be goth. *shrug* I'm referring to the people who buy into (and by buy into, I mean people who faithfully wear stuff like that and call themselves goths, and go to 'goth clubs' and drink fake blood, and dress in bondage outfits, etc etc) things like the shirts I named above, and cloths like this which all fall under my specifications of fake goth (for the heck of it, I'll get one item which is a shining example of each of the things I named in my last post). http://www.hottopic.com/store/product.asp?LS=0&ITEM=215755http://www.hottopic.com/store/product.asp?LS=0&ITEM=216342http://www.hottopic.com/store/product.asp?LS=0&ITEM=223985&RN=146(see the band t-shirts I linked above) http://www.hottopic.com/store/product.asp?LS=0&ITEM=254856&RN=171http://www.hottopic.com/store/product.asp?LS=0&ITEM=107348&RN=169http://www.hottopic.com/store/product.asp?LS=0&ITEM=218842&RN=432mangacatgirl But more on "topic" and less on "fake goth"... Let us stick to the lolita issue. According to the topic of this thread,"Hot Topic: Your views?", and contents of your first post: mangacatgirl Hot Topic always seems to be a very delicate topic for... well... just about anyone, for some reason. icon_sweatdrop.gif So I wanted to know what everyone here thinks..... What are your views on Hot Topic and J fashion? I've never gone off topic...
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:31 am
Mangacatgirl, your last post made me laugh. I don't think it was supposed to, but it did. You are witty.
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MissWorld -Kill Me Pills-
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:14 pm
mangacatgirl See are you saying HT calls it gothic or the people, because you just say "They" and I assumed you meant HT, which doesn't. 'They' implies HT and people for frequent their store, since I mentioned both. Although I don't recall saying "I hate HT", but rather their cloths and target audience, and gave my reasons. mangacatgirl Unless it's something morticia addams is wearing I don't see how a black dress is really some kind of indication of a vampire. I think you look waaaaay to far into their clothing to try and find a reason to complain. I'm not looking for any reason to dislike them, it comes with what I see on their site now, and what I have seen on their site in the past. That and the fact that lots of thier cloths strikingly resemble those of other stores that do call their cloths goth, and what people wear who call their cloths 'goth'. I could go around dressed like Barney, and just because I don't outright say I'm trying to look like Barney doesn't mean I don't look exactly like him in a big purple dinosaur suit. I think that alone would kind of distinguish it from being classified as anything else. But I'm sorry you think I am complaining. You made this topic asking in general what people think of hot topic and why people in Loli forums etc seem to be down on it. I didn't go into posting my opinions knowing your weren't genuinely interested in hearing any that don't match yours. mangacatgirl Yes it IS the fault of the person. If a person goes to a candy store and buys a toy... a stuffed animal that no one said was edible... and they try to eat it... that is entirely their fault. Or, in the case of an analogy actually pretaining to the issue, person A sees persons B-Z trying to eat the toy. Is it person A's fault, and of course not knowing an better, that s/he assume those things are edible? mangacatgirl Also just yesterday the main manager at my HT helped a girl who had a project for school and had to dress "goth". She had picked out a bunch of random black clothes and was going to wear that. My manager helped her to understand the difference between something just being black and having a skull on it or actually being goth. And told her those were NOT goth clothes. Later in this post I will provide just a few examples of other stores that call their clothing gothic and how their cloths/shoes/accessories in many cases are similar, or of the same style as those of Hot Topic. That still doesn't account for the majority of people who wear things like HT and call it gothic, but it's a start. It gives you an emaple of fake goth, and shows you how much it is like HT, and I've given my resons for disliking fake goth. mangacatgirl Let me guess, they sell fake goth candy? I think you fall under the assumption that if there is a skull on something, it's fake goth. Pirates like skulls... zombies like skulls... but they aren't goths... They are pirates and zombies... Which doctors like shrunken skulls... but they don't hand around saying "OMG I am sooo goth..." Not nessecarily. But a shirt with a bloody skull accompanied with spikey wrist bands, a dog collar (as often seen in masochistic sex practices), and pants with bondage chains on them I think would adeqately qualify as fake goth. Especially since they are worn by people who go to "goth vampire" nightclubs, drink eachothers blood, and tell stories of how they were r*ped by Dracula, and now beaing his children. And I do believe in one of my posts (contrary to you saying,"I think you fall under the assumption that if there is a skull on something, it's fake goth") I did say: namida_no_chi cloths with skulls and skeletons on them ( and otherwise cloths promoting gore and death, as I said in my original post) and namida_no_chi People don't see the true beauty, elegance, class, and sophistication of what true gothic is, because they have this other impression of what gothic is from people who call themselves that, and only portray darkness, death, gore, and lust, all in all lacking class mangacatgirl So nurses and samurai are fake goth symbols now? I must be behind on the current "fake goth" trends. Again, I think you believe a skull is some sort of horrible fake goth thing, and everyone who wears something that has a skull on it must be a fake goth. A) when did I even mention nurses? o.0 the shirts were one of what I mentioned above portraying lust among other things, which is quite contrary to what true goth is about. B) See what I said above. mangacatgirl bondage pants are not goth. No, they're not. As I've been saying since my first post. mangacatgirl I think you assume that because they are black. I'm starting to think it's people that think such as you do, that actually gives HT this outragious reputation o.O; Again... namida_no_chi cloths with skulls and skeletons on them ( and otherwise cloths promoting gore and death, as I said in my original post) and namida_no_chi People don't see the true beauty, elegance, class, and sophistication of what true gothic is, because they have this other impression of what gothic is from people who call themselves that, and only portray darkness, death, gore, and lust, all in all lacking class I don't even recall mentioning anything about black cloths.. mangacatgirl As for the dress it doesn't say anything about vampires and looks nothing like a dress I would imagine a vampire wearing. It just looks like a prom dress to me... (see what I said above relating to,"You don't have to say you are one thing in order to still portray it") mangacatgirl As for the wallet, I think I've already covered your obsession with skulls. And the belt... you must really be reaching because I don't even see how this can be seen as a goth belt... it's just a belt... with triangles on it... And the shirt is yet another skull... Oh no... somehow skulls are a bad thing I guess. Someone please inform Shakespeare that he is a horrible fake goth. As for the wallet, it has chains and other classifications I named, the belt has spikes as you would see in circles that wear those and claim to be goths and masochists(this has bearing on HT because it is their target audience), and as for the rest of your post, I think I've been over this in a few of my posts already: namida_no_chi cloths with skulls and skeletons on them ( and otherwise cloths promoting gore and death, as I said in my original post) and namida_no_chi People don't see the true beauty, elegance, class, and sophistication of what true gothic is, because they have this other impression of what gothic is from people who call themselves that, and only portray darkness, death, gore, and lust, all in all lacking class mangacatgirl Also if people are running around drinking blood... I think they were messed up before HT ever came along. Really? How long has HT been around? Because I remember reading something on the subject of 'goth' saying it really started getting big around 1998. I don't know if HT was around then, or that. mangacatgirl And HT has nothing to do with the fact they are clearly unstable. Did I say they were? No, But I do recall saying: namida_no_chi]I have something against ....the people who buy into it only because they call it "gothic" and then give the word "Gothic" a bad reputation by doing things like pretending to be vampires and drinking blood and dressing in bondage clothing, parading around saying "Look, we're gothic", and otherwise acting (I dare use the word) idiotic and irrational[/quote]
So here I am not putting the blame on HT's shoulders for how these people act, and I don't recall ever doing so. But the people who parade around in HT-ish clothing calling themselves goth and doing what hey do. I have something against that because it give "gothic" a bad reputation. And that is HT's target audience. I remember before you said something about,"they just sell cloths, it's not their problem the group of people who claim them". Not, but HT makes clothing spacifically for those kinds of people. At least it doesn't seem to me like they're making cloths targeted at old 89 year old ladies, or what cheerleaders would normally wear...
[quote="mangacatgirl As for "never going off topic". Hot Topic: Your Views is the title, not the description. Perhaps, but I like how you completely ignored this protion of your post: mangacatgirl Hot Topic always seems to be a very delicate topic for... well... just about anyone, for some reason. icon_sweatdrop.gif So I wanted to know what everyone here thinks. __________________________________________________ mangacatgirl And it clearly says in the description "Hot topic and J fashion" IE J fashion related clothes sold at hot topic. Although my first 2 posts were on comparing HT to Loli, you also spacifically said: mangacatgirl Now I have the following questions you can choose to or not to answer. Whichever Qs you please... mangacatgirl What are your views on Hot Topic and J fashion? This last quote I did address in my first post (and have seen been quoting my first post), if anywhere this discussion got off topic it was here: mangacatgirl See this is where the problem is.....Hot Topic does not call bondage things goth.....Also I have no idea what bands that promote fake goth would be.....I don't know... this whole "fake goth" thing confuses the hell out of me Were you tried to identify my 'problem', continue to go into detail about what HT generally sells (when I have seen it for myself), and have me to elaborate on my post. All while I was still comparing HT to Loli, and explaining why I do not like their cloths in comparison. I didn't go off topic. mangacatgirl Maybe there was some sort of confusion there You can quote this and ramble on as I'm sure you will, but if it is another off topic post (IE your obsession with fake goths instead of J fashion) I will ignore it. I'd like to know where I have some kind of obsession confused . All I said was I don't like fake goths(and identified them), and you try and convince me HT isn't one to sell to them. That means I have an obsession? Hm, I see, so you ask someone why they don't like HT (or the clothing, rather), and what they think of it. They say they don't like it (when it would seem you do), and why, and then you go off topic trying to convince they why they should, and when they don't conform to your ideas you ignore them. I wonder if there was really any truth in this: mangacatgirl Hot Topic always seems to be a very delicate topic for... well... just about anyone, for some reason. icon_sweatdrop.gif So I wanted to know what everyone here thinks. mangacatgirl You can quote this and ramble on as I'm sure you will, but if it is another off topic post (IE your obsession with fake goths instead of J fashion) I will ignore it Once before I was in a "what is gothic thread", and I did something like this (which I think was rather effective), so I post this for the general guild. (credited links posted at the bottom) This is gothic...  This is NOT gothic... This is gothic... This is NOT gothic... This is gothic... This is NOT gothic... This is gothic... This is NOT gothic(and actually called 'bondage choker')... This is gothic... This is NOT gothic... This is gothic... This is NOT gothic... This is gothic... This is NOT gothic... This is gothic... This is NOT gothic... This is gothic... This is NOT gothic... This is gothic... This is NOT gothic... This is gothic... This is NOT gothic... This is gothic... This is NOT gothic... http://img.hottopic.com/is/image/HotTopic/292784_hi?$product$This is gothic... This is NOT gothic... http://img.hottopic.com/is/image/HotTopic/264865_hi?$product$This is gothic... This is NOT gothic...
]http://img.hottopic.com/is/image/HotTopic/218842_hi?$product$This is gothic... This is NOT gothic...
]http://img.hottopic.com/is/image/HotTopic/231166_hi?$product$This is gothic... This is NOT gothic...
]http://img.hottopic.com/is/image/HotTopic/288974_hi?$product$(the HT images are links because they weren't working with the img tags) gothic sites: http://www.bodyline.co.jphttp://www.babydssb.co.jphttp://www.victorianmaiden.comhttp://www.marymagdalene.jp/http://www.boz.ne.jp/non-gothic sites: http://www.gothshop.comhttp://www.spookyboutique.comhttp://www.blackrose.co.ukhttp://www.goodgoth.comhttp://www.hottopic.comOn a final note, the point of this was first off to point out the differences in real goth and fake goth. Secondly was to point out that a lot of other store that call their stuff goth is really fake goth, and yet strikingly resembles things you can find at HT. Not saying all of these sites are without Loli-ish looking cloths, but the fact that they associate that as being just the same as thiese other cloths. Not only that, but like I said in my original post, this other stuff that is associated with true goth as being true goth ruins the meaning of the word because "People don't see the true beauty, elegance, class, and sophistication of what true gothic is, because they have this other impression of what gothic is from people who call themselves that, and only portray darkness, death, gore, and lust, all in all lacking class". Some of the cloths from these other stores are a prim example. They were so crude, vulgar, and revealing, I didn't want to post pictures of them here. But the fact that people pollute the word "gothic" with this other thing (and no, HT doesn't call their stuff goth per se, but as you can see in just the few examples provided, their stuff is quite reminiscent of people and places who do), it makes me angry, because people who are true gothic assume the reputation of fake goth portrayed by stores like HT. This is why I dislike HT products. (note to the mods: If the pictures are too much, I can reduce them to links.^^)
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:43 pm
So... much... posting...*brain explodes...*
anyways.... I don't wish to argue... or get myself hurt, but you must also take in the compramise of the more 'modern goth' like cyber, candy, baby, romantic... It's all subcatagories... and the problem I think mostly lies in people grouping it all into one lump of label... yes they have the original victorian goth... but...*runs out of vocabulary*
please don't scream at me *hides under chair*
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Reply
