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 Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:43 pm
Quote: Oh, great. I see where this is going. Right on the heels of the Harry Potter series. "Church go-ers" everywhere will be saying how it promotes evil and all sorts of other things. Does anyone besides me remember how heated that thing got?
Yeah, I remember, but I honestly don't think it'll ever get as big as the Harry Potter debate. Put bluntly, Harry Potter is just on a completely different literary level from Twilight. Twilight can't even pretend to be enriching or deeply affecting the literary bank. It's just an entertainment matter.
From what I understand, the Vatican disapproves of Twilight according to the many reasons others don't like it: it's morally ambiguous, leaves too many unanswered questions that could negatively affect young readers, and places an unhealthy relationship as romantic and ideal.
Anyway, I'm the last person in the world who would promote censorship, but I think it is absolutely appropriate for the head of a major world religion to advise its followers to be on their guard while reading, or not to read at all.
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:35 pm
I see what you mean about being morally ambiguous Green. It definitely takes many precautions to avoid the issue of religion. If I remember correctly, Bella isn't religious. She finds it odd that there is a cross handing on the wall in a vampire's house (it belonged to Carlisle's dad). Edward believes that vampires don't get to go to a special afterlife, but he is rather vague. For all practical purposes, it ignores religion. At least that's better than most of the atheistic ideas in most of the other vampire books. In Anne Rice's Vampire Chronicles, she fights against God quite a bit. But now, she's a penitent and writing about angels. heart Wait, I think I got off topic again.... sweatdrop How about this? Censorship is bad, but warnings are good. biggrin I hate censorship in all forms. That's why I joined the tobacco protest eventhough I don't support tobacco irl.
And I have to ask the question: What's wrong with sappy cheesy cliche romances every once in a while? Most of the manga that I read falls under that category. I don't read it for any deeper meaning. I read it because I want to live vicariously through the heroines. lol Okay, I'll admit, that's pretty pathetic...
And as for the craze, I read all of them except for Breaking Dawn before they became popular. Some of my friends in my drama class recommended them, so I read them and enjoyed them. Then Twilight mania started. I'm almost ashamed now to say that I enjoyed reading them with all of the idiotic fangirls out there right now. sweatdrop
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:34 pm
Well, it's not the lack of religion or mention of religion that the Vatican spokespeople seem to dislike. I think (and I can't state this with authority because I haven't yet read the books) it's other things that secular feminists actually have problems with: the fact that Bella seems to have no moral compass or even personal conscience, that Edward sort of abuses her and she doesn't even have a moment of insight like, "hey, maybe I don't deserve to be treated like this." The fact that Jacob, for all intents and purposes, regards a baby as his future wife. ^^; They all seem to be suicidal at some point or other.
You are the ideal reader for Twilight, Chibi, because you are mature, well-read, and are reading it for guilty pleasure/entertainment purposes, not as a replacement for real life. I think people are worried about the not-ideal readers - the young middle school girls who obsess about their crushes and, in the confusion of youth, are subconsciously groomed to accept some of the more questionable things as perfectly normal.
The mature reader is someone who can read a book without being on pure absorption, who can look at a book as something that may be telling lies, for plot purposes, or due to general ignorance on the part of the author or the author's culture/time period. That's why they wait until high school to have people read Mark Twain. Because the little 'uns just aren't mature enough to filter out the racism as something utterly wrong.
I don't even think the Catholic Church has a problem with Anne Rice's novels, though they'd surely advise people to skip over the sexually explicit parts (I assume they're in the books because they seemed to be in the movies).
See, the danger is not necessarily in the content but in how the content is presented, and to whom. I guess that's all I wanted to say. Wow, took a lot to say that, huh?
(P.S. I'm extremely biased, but I venture to say that only a Catholic like Anne Rice could write such darn good vampire novels. We do have the flare for ritual, blood, and mysticism, LOL!)
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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:02 am
Let's see... moral problems within the books. confused Bella is very eager to have premarital sex, but Edward won't hear of it because he wants to stick to his morals. (thumbs up Edward!) Edward isn't abusive or anything, but he does tend to undervalue Bella's opinions. And yeah, Bella and Edward both get suicidal at the thought of not being able to live without the other one. xp The others aren't suicidal.
Anne Rice is a master writer. It's so wonderful reading her books, but it is kind of sad reading her atheistic sentiment in her first novels. It's actually kind of interesting to read the series because you can slowly see how she changes her opinion about God. By about book 4 or 5, she is a deist, and by the end of the series, she has found God again. I would like to read her autobiography over Christmas break. I really want to know what made her change her views so drastically. I think it's called Called Out of Darkness: A Spiritual Confession. But as far as the sex goes, I don't recall any sex scenes until book 4, The Tale of the Body Thief. In her series, vampires have no use for their reproductive organs. They say that drinking blood is far better than sex. (I'm pretty sure that they can't do it even if they tried.) In Tale of the Body Thief, Lestat is able to exchange bodies with a human, so he goes on a few safaris in the bedroom. lol But as far as the Catholic Church is concerned, I'm pretty sure that she claimed that she would not renounce her novels because of how they showed her path to regaining her faith. At least I read something like that on her website a while back. 3nodding
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:49 am
It's a beautiful thing to look at authors' chronological works and see how they progressed, not just in literary style but as people and even believers. 3nodding
C.S. Lewis is especially fun for this.
If I don't ever read Twilight it won't be because I think it's evil but because of the same reason I never finished the Harry Potter series: I get too easily distracted by what I find are far more interesting reads! I know, I'm weird like that! LOL! sweatdrop
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:50 am
P.S. Regarding the suicide, I thought Carlisle and Esme both tried to commit suicide?
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:32 pm
I forgot about that part! Yeah, Esme attempted suicide because her baby died. Carlisle tried killing himself when he became a vampire because he didn't want to hurt anyone. Once he realized that he could live off of animals, he changed his mind.
Actually, you would be surprised. The series is a very quick read. It doesn't take much thought like most books do, and there isn't exactly alot of text on each page. 3nodding I wish I could be distracted by other books. I haven't had time to read anything other than what was assigned for me to read all semester. sad
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Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:30 pm
K, I might read New Moon after my little sister detatches herself from it! blaugh
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Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:39 pm
Don't read New Moon until you Read Twilight. There is so much that you will miss if you read New Moon first. Trust me on this one. wink
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:51 am
disasterbation
the death of a nation
manipulate yourself So I'm new here, thought I'd jump into some conversation... (yay btw!)
Twilight as a whole was decent. Decent only because it kept the inner hopeless romantic in me there and thriving. However, I must say that looking back, I do not want to read them again. Only because of the gigantic holes in it. Also, her writing style is not up to par with what I am used to. A lot of build up and then a rush to the finish line is what I likened the reading to.
The movies... Well the first movie totally made me want to vomit all over everyone. The casting overall was decent. I did not see a Rob Pattinson as Edward, but I think he did decently enough. Kristin Steward however... I'm appalled that she made it thus far. I dislike her acting to such a degree that I think if I ever encountered her on the street, I'd punch her in the face and tell her to actually start acting. The fact that New Moon was supposed to absurdly sad and guess who didn't shed a single tear? Kristin.
I don't..... NOT recommend the books. I just... don't necessarily recommend them... >.> we're so weak for
blaming persuasion
never life-based
hard immitation
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:34 pm
PocketEko disasterbation
the death of a nation
manipulate yourself So I'm new here, thought I'd jump into some conversation... (yay btw!)
Twilight as a whole was decent. Decent only because it kept the inner hopeless romantic in me there and thriving. However, I must say that looking back, I do not want to read them again. Only because of the gigantic holes in it. Also, her writing style is not up to par with what I am used to. A lot of build up and then a rush to the finish line is what I likened the reading to.
The movies... Well the first movie totally made me want to vomit all over everyone. The casting overall was decent. I did not see a Rob Pattinson as Edward, but I think he did decently enough. Kristin Steward however... I'm appalled that she made it thus far. I dislike her acting to such a degree that I think if I ever encountered her on the street, I'd punch her in the face and tell her to actually start acting. The fact that New Moon was supposed to absurdly sad and guess who didn't shed a single tear? Kristin.
I don't..... NOT recommend the books. I just... don't necessarily recommend them... >.> we're so weak for
blaming persuasion
never life-based
hard immitation
Welcome to the guild, Eko!
Yeah, that's how I think I'll feel about it. Like, "YAY! for the over-the-top romance, WTH? for the plot holes, writing, and quesitonable behaviour."
@ Chibi - I already know what happens in Twilight, though. sweatdrop
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:00 pm
GreenInkling PocketEko disasterbation
the death of a nation
manipulate yourself So I'm new here, thought I'd jump into some conversation... (yay btw!)
Twilight as a whole was decent. Decent only because it kept the inner hopeless romantic in me there and thriving. However, I must say that looking back, I do not want to read them again. Only because of the gigantic holes in it. Also, her writing style is not up to par with what I am used to. A lot of build up and then a rush to the finish line is what I likened the reading to.
The movies... Well the first movie totally made me want to vomit all over everyone. The casting overall was decent. I did not see a Rob Pattinson as Edward, but I think he did decently enough. Kristin Steward however... I'm appalled that she made it thus far. I dislike her acting to such a degree that I think if I ever encountered her on the street, I'd punch her in the face and tell her to actually start acting. The fact that New Moon was supposed to absurdly sad and guess who didn't shed a single tear? Kristin.
I don't..... NOT recommend the books. I just... don't necessarily recommend them... >.> we're so weak for
blaming persuasion
never life-based
hard immitation
Welcome to the guild, Eko!
Yeah, that's how I think I'll feel about it. Like, "YAY! for the over-the-top romance, WTH? for the plot holes, writing, and quesitonable behaviour."
@ Chibi - I already know what happens in Twilight, though. sweatdrop
Regardless, it just doesn't have the same effect if you don't read the first one first. How can you miss Edward in book 2 if you haven't attached yourself to him in book 1? heart
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Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:12 pm
lilchibiusa GreenInkling PocketEko disasterbation
the death of a nation
manipulate yourself So I'm new here, thought I'd jump into some conversation... (yay btw!)
Twilight as a whole was decent. Decent only because it kept the inner hopeless romantic in me there and thriving. However, I must say that looking back, I do not want to read them again. Only because of the gigantic holes in it. Also, her writing style is not up to par with what I am used to. A lot of build up and then a rush to the finish line is what I likened the reading to.
The movies... Well the first movie totally made me want to vomit all over everyone. The casting overall was decent. I did not see a Rob Pattinson as Edward, but I think he did decently enough. Kristin Steward however... I'm appalled that she made it thus far. I dislike her acting to such a degree that I think if I ever encountered her on the street, I'd punch her in the face and tell her to actually start acting. The fact that New Moon was supposed to absurdly sad and guess who didn't shed a single tear? Kristin.
I don't..... NOT recommend the books. I just... don't necessarily recommend them... >.> we're so weak for
blaming persuasion
never life-based
hard immitation
Welcome to the guild, Eko!
Yeah, that's how I think I'll feel about it. Like, "YAY! for the over-the-top romance, WTH? for the plot holes, writing, and quesitonable behaviour."
@ Chibi - I already know what happens in Twilight, though. sweatdrop
Regardless, it just doesn't have the same effect if you don't read the first one first. How can you miss Edward in book 2 if you haven't attached yourself to him in book 1? heart
THE GLITCH IS STILL HERE! stressed
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Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:46 pm
GreenInkling lilchibiusa GreenInkling PocketEko disasterbation
the death of a nation
manipulate yourself So I'm new here, thought I'd jump into some conversation... (yay btw!)
Twilight as a whole was decent. Decent only because it kept the inner hopeless romantic in me there and thriving. However, I must say that looking back, I do not want to read them again. Only because of the gigantic holes in it. Also, her writing style is not up to par with what I am used to. A lot of build up and then a rush to the finish line is what I likened the reading to.
The movies... Well the first movie totally made me want to vomit all over everyone. The casting overall was decent. I did not see a Rob Pattinson as Edward, but I think he did decently enough. Kristin Steward however... I'm appalled that she made it thus far. I dislike her acting to such a degree that I think if I ever encountered her on the street, I'd punch her in the face and tell her to actually start acting. The fact that New Moon was supposed to absurdly sad and guess who didn't shed a single tear? Kristin.
I don't..... NOT recommend the books. I just... don't necessarily recommend them... >.> we're so weak for
blaming persuasion
never life-based
hard immitation
Welcome to the guild, Eko!
Yeah, that's how I think I'll feel about it. Like, "YAY! for the over-the-top romance, WTH? for the plot holes, writing, and quesitonable behaviour."
@ Chibi - I already know what happens in Twilight, though. sweatdrop
Regardless, it just doesn't have the same effect if you don't read the first one first. How can you miss Edward in book 2 if you haven't attached yourself to him in book 1? heart
THE GLITCH IS STILL HERE! stressed
Test post
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Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:03 am
lilchibiusa Regardless, it just doesn't have the same effect if you don't read the first one first. How can you miss Edward in book 2 if you haven't attached yourself to him in book 1? heart Dammit Chibi, didn't I open your eyes up even a bit with our little conversation? You should find a much healthier imaginary dude to pine over. Like a sack of bricks, they'd certainly have more charm. Y'know, it's funny. I would never have been so aggressive about if not for my ex. Then Again, I wouldn't have read them either and might have been one of those dismissive types.
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