"You can't just BE a jew!"

[yourjewishcousin]

So basically the "Only" differance between Messianic Jews and Jews is their belief in a Messiah. Sort of like Chabad Lubavich or the ones (Forgot their name) that believe Bar Cochban was the Messiah? So technically it wouldn't be forbidden for a Messianic Jew to attend an Orthodox Shul because they are culturally Jewish.
Well the restrictions for the conversions isn't really any different than a Reform/Conservative Conversion. I mean Aliyah isn't even granted to some Orthodox conversions.  

[famusamu]

The Talmud uses a play on words when it mentions Y'shua ישוע (Which means Salvation) it inaccurately calls Him 'Yeshu' יש"ו an acronym for the Hebrew expression yemach shemo vezichro, meaning "May his name and memory be obliterated"

Sadly the majority of other Jewish 'denominations' do not believe Messianic Jews to be Jews. crying  

[yourjewishcousin]

Yeah... : rolleyes

I've said that to some Messianics before...


redface  

[famusamu]

yourjewishcousin

Yeah... : rolleyes

I've said that to some Messianics before...


redface

That's alright I forgive you achi!  

[yourjewishcousin]

Thanks. I probably wouldn't have said it (because I respect all beliefs) except they came to my uncle's minyan and started telling him that his son died to open his eyes to Yeshua. If there was ever a time I felt like socking someone it was then. Instead I guess I just decided to insult their religion. Which was wrong but it was pretty wrong of them to interupt my uncle's mourning process. I still know them and they are still good friends of my uncle's.  

[grani4fam1]

It seems like this is a question of semantics. A Jew is an Israelite from the tribe of Judah, right? Today, the only true physical Jews are a lumping together of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi, aren't they? I'm a Gentile believer in Yeshua as Messiah, and I don't fall into that group, but as was said before, I am a daughter of Avraham, Yitzhak and Ya'Acov if I believe in Yeshua. I have only come to this understanding in the last two years, and I am finding that there is a movement among Christians away from the traditional church and into Messianic beliefs and behaviors like keeping Kosher, the feasts, etc. It is growing little by little out here in nowhereland, and people are just coming to it as Adonai leads them.  

[Bezant]

Those who believe in Jesus become "Jewish" in a sense: they receive circumcision of the heart.
But there is no forcing towards Judaism if one is a Christ-follower. Some Jewish believers took their new converts and circumcised them, unnecessarily as it turned out. "Circumcision" also represents the rest of the Jewish faith in this context. Paul, missionary to the Gentiles, said:

1Cr 7:18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
1Cr 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.  

[OrangeJ]

grani4fam1

It seems like this is a question of semantics. A Jew is an Israelite from the tribe of Judah, right? Today, the only true physical Jews are a lumping together of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi, aren't they? I'm a Gentile believer in Yeshua as Messiah, and I don't fall into that group, but as was said before, I am a daughter of Avraham, Yitzhak and Ya'Acov if I believe in Yeshua. I have only come to this understanding in the last two years, and I am finding that there is a movement among Christians away from the traditional church and into Messianic beliefs and behaviors like keeping Kosher, the feasts, etc. It is growing little by little out here in nowhereland, and people are just coming to it as Adonai leads them.

no, jews are all israelites in the halowcast (excuse my spelling) the word jew was invented to brand all isrealites mrgreen  

[Bezant]

OrangeJ

grani4fam1

It seems like this is a question of semantics. A Jew is an Israelite from the tribe of Judah, right? Today, the only true physical Jews are a lumping together of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi, aren't they? I'm a Gentile believer in Yeshua as Messiah, and I don't fall into that group, but as was said before, I am a daughter of Avraham, Yitzhak and Ya'Acov if I believe in Yeshua. I have only come to this understanding in the last two years, and I am finding that there is a movement among Christians away from the traditional church and into Messianic beliefs and behaviors like keeping Kosher, the feasts, etc. It is growing little by little out here in nowhereland, and people are just coming to it as Adonai leads them.

no, jews are all israelites in the halowcast (excuse my spelling) the word jew was invented to brand all isrealites mrgreen

Hello Orange.
By what authority do you say this? mrgreen  

[OrangeJ]

Cherry Sodah

OrangeJ

grani4fam1

It seems like this is a question of semantics. A Jew is an Israelite from the tribe of Judah, right? Today, the only true physical Jews are a lumping together of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi, aren't they? I'm a Gentile believer in Yeshua as Messiah, and I don't fall into that group, but as was said before, I am a daughter of Avraham, Yitzhak and Ya'Acov if I believe in Yeshua. I have only come to this understanding in the last two years, and I am finding that there is a movement among Christians away from the traditional church and into Messianic beliefs and behaviors like keeping Kosher, the feasts, etc. It is growing little by little out here in nowhereland, and people are just coming to it as Adonai leads them.

no, jews are all israelites in the halowcast (excuse my spelling) the word jew was invented to brand all isrealites mrgreen

Hello Orange.
By what authority do you say this? mrgreen

howz it going?
do i truely need authority? is it enough to have brushed up on history?  

[RoseRose]

OrangeJ

grani4fam1

It seems like this is a question of semantics. A Jew is an Israelite from the tribe of Judah, right? Today, the only true physical Jews are a lumping together of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi, aren't they? I'm a Gentile believer in Yeshua as Messiah, and I don't fall into that group, but as was said before, I am a daughter of Avraham, Yitzhak and Ya'Acov if I believe in Yeshua. I have only come to this understanding in the last two years, and I am finding that there is a movement among Christians away from the traditional church and into Messianic beliefs and behaviors like keeping Kosher, the feasts, etc. It is growing little by little out here in nowhereland, and people are just coming to it as Adonai leads them.

no, jews are all israelites in the halowcast (excuse my spelling) the word jew was invented to brand all isrealites mrgreen

Actually, "Jew" is a derivative of "Judah", the name of the only remaining Israelite nation after the Assyrians took over Israel. Jew has been used for centuries before the Holocaust, although it's really only technically accurate for post-Babylonian Diaspora times, at the very earliest, post-Israelite Kingdom destruction (the Northern Kingdom).

This is from being a history major, and born Conservative Jew who's been to Israel. I don't have time to find sources now (I need to do homework) but if you want them, post, and I'll get them when I have time.  

[famusamu]

King David was the the 1st King of the Jews, because he was of the Tribe of Judah. And as rose said it's also a derivative of Judah.  

[RoseRose]

famusamu

King David was the the 1st King of the Jews, because he was of the Tribe of Judah. And as rose said it's also a derivative of Judah.

I don't think I'd put it that way about King David, because it was BEFORE the split between the kingdoms. I'd have to check my Tanach, but the first king of the Jews would probably, in my opinion, be the first king of Judah as a separate kingdom.

And something I realized- the derivation is a LOT more obvious in the Hebrew. The Hebrew of Judah- Yehuda. The Hebrew of Jew- Yehudi/Yehudit, depending on gender.  

[OrangeJ]

famusamu

King David was the the 1st King of the Jews, because he was of the Tribe of Judah. And as rose said it's also a derivative of Judah.

but only desendits from judah is aloud to become a king.  

[famusamu]

RoseRose

famusamu

King David was the the 1st King of the Jews, because he was of the Tribe of Judah. And as rose said it's also a derivative of Judah.

I don't think I'd put it that way about King David, because it was BEFORE the split between the kingdoms. I'd have to check my Tanach, but the first king of the Jews would probably, in my opinion, be the first king of Judah as a separate kingdom.

And something I realized- the derivation is a LOT more obvious in the Hebrew. The Hebrew of Judah- Yehuda. The Hebrew of Jew- Yehudi/Yehudit, depending on gender.

Here is what Ask Moses says:

Where does the word "Jew" come from?
by Rabbi Naftali Silberberg

1. The majority of "Jews" today are descended from the tribes of Judah and Benjamin -- the two tribes who comprised the "Kingdom of Judea."1 The other ten tribes, the "Northern Kingdom," were lost (see Mystery of the Ten Lost Tribes) In Hebrew, the word "Jew" (Yehudi) is a clear derivative of the word Judah ("Yehudah").

2. As mentioned, the name "Jew" comes from the Hebrew word "Yehudi."

The Talmud (Megillah 13a) says that the name Yehudi applies to anyone who rejects idolatry and accepts the one true G-d. (The word "Hoda'ah," which is the root of the word Yehudi (and Yehudah), means to acknowledge). That's why Mordechai, a descendant of the tribe of Benjamin, was called a Yehudi (Esther 2:5)

All Jews, no matter their ancestry, are called "Yehudim" (Jews), because every Jew possesses a G-dly soul which is characterized by an unwavering belief in G-d.



What I meant is that because David was the King and from the Tribe of Judah that his subjects were also called Jews.