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 Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:02 am
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divineseraph i blame nothing on anybody. it is all misunderstanding. do you not see that by stereotyping muslims, you are becoming what you hate? do you not see that they hate us for the exact same reason you hate them? all because the two groups refuse to look each other in the eye and see the human similarities?
rofl rofl What an absurd thing to say!
If BLIND prejudice was the main problem, it would have been solved thousands of years ago. All humanity is aware that it is of the same species, follows generally the same customs, likes pretty things, dislikes nasty things, etc. How innocent to believe it is all a matter of finding common ground and respecting each other!
sweatdrop that's another reason the radical islamics despise Americans - our arrogant stupidity in thinking that Middle East problems can be solved by just talking. Just talking! That's for democracies, where violence is considered barbaric. That's for civilized folk. Did you know, most of the Middle East and North Africa was Christian at one time, before the rise of Islam? Who knows what would have happened had Mohammed's armies not attacked?
Here is a pattern for you:
A tribe conquers enough other tribes to defend a large mass of territory.
becomes civilized and leaves its hunter-gatherer ways to build a city and raise crops. It creates much wealth for its citizens.
A neighboring, poorer tribe becomes jealous. Its people are poor and starving. It hates the city and attacks it.
The city folk, overcivilized and soft, do nothing but argue with each other about what to do and eventually lose to the invaders.
The conquerers take over the city and at first keep their own ways, but eventually become civilized and raise crops and so forth.
Repeat the first step.
This is what happens throughout history - a hard and fast rule? Nah. But close enough.
Apparently the US is not soft and overcivilized enough to succumb to those who hate it. Not yet!
divineseraph i do not hate jesus. i do dislike those who use his name to justify murder of the innocent.
When did that happen? Invading Afghanistan and Iran had nothing to do with Jesus. No one said it did. Are you implying it did? Do you think this is a religious war on the Americans' part? I see tactics to defend a nervous country, but no holy zeal to conquer...if the Americans were the Conquistadors, this conflict would have ended quickly with their complete surrender. Because we would not have held back, nor our allies. But we are not after spoil, just a few individuals.
divineseraph i am no atheist. i am for triunification because we all believe in the same one God, YHWH. This war is not caused by any one religion, but it is caused by one mindset.
Please tell me the mindset that Moslem children are taught.
Here's what American children are taught. They are taught to hate Europeans, whites, especially males, and REALLY taught to hate Christianity and its values. The rule is do what feels good, as long as it's polite. Marriage and motherhood are uncool. Hard work is for squares. People who stop you from having fun are the devil. Sleeping around is cool. The Pilgrims were evil squares who robbed Indians and forced their wicked ways onto innocent Native Americans. Etc.
Frankly, I believe Moslems may find this as disgusting as I do...has any nation been told to hate its own history more than ours? For sure, most have been more corrupt.
But, it is neither corruption nor galloping ignorance that really makes us hated...it is something in the Western World that has not yet been destroyed. I'm not going to name it just yet.
Oh, and I don't hate Moslems. But that doesn't matter.
4laugh |
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:11 am
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:33 pm
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:42 am
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divineseraph You blaming muslims for problems is much like hitler blaming jews for problems in germany. What do you propose, Fuhrer? Extermination? Concentration camps?
Fallacy.
Your equation of victims of Islam with Hitler is ludicrous. I'm not sure you know history. Hitler blamed the Jews. Moslems blame the Jews. Are you seeing a pattern here, or...? Any correlation?
It appears as though War is the answer. The answer is not the one given by the West. This information is obvious to anyone who studies history and cultures. It's what radical islam pants after, desires deeply, wants, calls for, yearns for. It gives them identity and selfhood. You don't get it because you're a Westerner too. We're not into war. It's not our fight. We're in it as much as we are, because are sacrificing for others' benefit.
What do you propose? Destroying all faiths, getting rid of the preachers, and giving the people a false state-based system of beliefs? Christianity without Christ, morality without a just God, human goodness without any reason for goodness?
Do you honestly think that the world just got better on its own without any supernatural intervention whatsoever? Are you one of those who thinks human society evolves away from slavery and oppression to equality "just because"?
Some reading of interest to you:
Behead all those who insult Islam
Children of Jihad vs. Children of the West |
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:47 am
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:58 am
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:04 am
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Cherry Sodah grani4fam1 Just one word: syncretism. Ewg. If there are many roads to redemption, then Christ died in vain. God sent his only son on a fool's errand, and humanity could redeem itself through the blood of animal sacrifices, much chanting of prayer, and obedience to the priests/imams. Jesus died for nothing, and all the deep hatred stirred up against him is hollow, if syncretism is valid.
You seem to have misunderstood me on this. I only said one word, and it was to sum up what was being said about Islam. I don't agree with syncretism; I only want to say that Islam is syncretic. That is a negative thing in my opinion. I was not saying anything bad about Judaism or Christianity. redface |
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:44 pm
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grani4fam1 Cherry Sodah grani4fam1 Just one word: syncretism. Ewg. If there are many roads to redemption, then Christ died in vain. God sent his only son on a fool's errand, and humanity could redeem itself through the blood of animal sacrifices, much chanting of prayer, and obedience to the priests/imams. Jesus died for nothing, and all the deep hatred stirred up against him is hollow, if syncretism is valid. You seem to have misunderstood me on this. I only said one word, and it was to sum up what was being said about Islam. I don't agree with syncretism; I only want to say that Islam is syncretic. That is a negative thing in my opinion. I was not saying anything bad about Judaism or Christianity. redface
OH!! My apologies. I thought you meant syncretism was the solution to the struggles. Thank you for your explanation: I misunderstood! |
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:42 am
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All muslims hate jews? Just as... say... all jews are rich and greedy?
You stereotype, you take from the extremist sources.
Or should I call christians bloodthirsty due to our many, MANY centuries of war and hate?
Starting with the crusades, fought over money, all the way up to conservative backing of the war in Iraq. Big business.
But I digress- What I propose is that we stop ALL of this stereotyping. They stop stereotyping jews and christians, and we stop stereotyping them. Instead, we look at our similarities- Our One God YHWH, our common prophets, our common rules and laws.
We are the same, muslims, christians and jews.
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:37 pm
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divineseraph All muslims hate jews? Just as... say... all jews are rich and greedy? You stereotype, you take from the extremist sources. Or should I call christians bloodthirsty due to our many, MANY centuries of war and hate? Starting with the crusades, fought over money, all the way up to conservative backing of the war in Iraq. Big business. But I digress- What I propose is that we stop ALL of this stereotyping. They stop stereotyping jews and christians, and we stop stereotyping them. Instead, we look at our similarities- Our One God YHWH, our common prophets, our common rules and laws. We are the same, muslims, christians and jews.
You persist in projecting prejudicial attitudes that simply aren't there. You're panting to make me into some sort of bigot, and I'm not. Shame on you. Shame for your desperate flinging of dirt. All the prejudice is inside you.
Open your mouth and say it with me:
Christ died for the sins of the world.
He rose again so that we might live in him.
ALL (me, you, them, every nation on earth) have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Christ is the propitiation for those sins. All are welcome to accept this free gift. He who has been set free by Jesus is free indeed. Believers in Christ, who have accepted the free gift from God of salvation, become the Body that is described as the Bride of Christ.
If that's the kind of "unification" you mean, then I agree. It's not a political unification. It's much more important - a spiritual one. As Paul explains in Romans ch. 12, the members that make up the Body are different, but they all work together, just as the organs in a human body do, for the benefit of all.
However, this coming together, this cooperation, is not the end goal of faith. And, as you know, it is a side effect any time a group has a common goal.
Shouldn't salvation be more important? Do you prefer to bring all people under a common Earthly rule and have them die in their sins, or would you rather have their eternal souls be reconciled with the Father?
Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." (John 14:6) This isn't a joke or an exaggeration. No one, not me, not you, not the other members of this guild, not anyone ever is good enough to be reconciled with God on our own. Christ isn't one of many routes to salvation. If he were, wouldn't God be an idiot for sacrificing his own son! Here there were all these other paths to forgiveness from God, and he foolishly uses Christ as a sacrifice to himself! Why would the Creator go through that agony if there were multiple ways?
That is, I think, also part of your misconception. You believe that Christ is but one of many routes, and you haven't thought it through. What a waste if He were. What a crime to send the Lamb of God on a fool's errand.
Another misconception you have, which I am sure is not your fault, is that a born-again, Bible-believing, Christ-follower is exactly the same as a person who is born into a Catholic or Protestant family, attends church, agrees that Christ was the Son of God, and will have a Christian burial when they die. Not so. That's as different as a seed with life in it, and a dead seed. If there is no difference apparent to you, you aren't focused on the right things. This also is not your fault, but it is up to the individual to take responsibility and look at the right things instead.
Think eternity. That is going to last much longer than life on this Earth, or the Earth itself. |
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:19 pm
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Do you even listen to yourself talk?
Muslims BELIVE IN JESUS.
Listen to me here.
They BELIEVE in JESUS CHRIST.
They also believe that AFTER HIM came another PROPHET- NOT another God, NOT another Messiah. Simply a Prophet, someone to state the word of God through a human body.
And if Christ is the only way to salvation, why are you here?
This is a unification of Jews and Christians. Do you believe the Jews here will burn for eternity? Do you honestly believe that? Because, even though they worship the SAME GOD and follow the SAME RULES and have the SAME HOLY BOOKS andthe same BASE and, in fact, the Messiah WAS A JEW?
If Jews get to heaven, then Muslims do too- They are on the same path, they follow the SAME GOD, have the SAME HOLY BOOKS, have the SAME PROPHETS- they are simple in a new erra of time with a new prophets.
And you are here telling me that Muslims are evil- That they hate Christians abnd Jews. This may be true in the current time because of political retardation, with wars and squabbles and twists of faith.
Again, let me point to Conservatives and the Iraq War, or Al Queda and 9/11. They are one in the same, justifying a politcial war on religion.
But cut through all that bullshit, and you will see that the three religions of Islam, Judaism and Christianity are the same
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:17 pm
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Do you even listen to yourself talk?
I do! smile I hope you will listen to yourself as well.
Muslims BELIVE IN JESUS.
Listen to me here.
They BELIEVE in JESUS CHRIST.
Sweetie, they don't believe he was the Son of God. They believe he was one of many prophets. They don't believe he is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
They also believe that AFTER HIM came another PROPHET- NOT another God, NOT another Messiah. Simply a Prophet, someone to state the word of God through a human body.
So? I do not accept Mohammed as a prophet because of his teachings. They aren't quite...kosher. Why do you think there is jihad on Salman Rushdie? Rushdie wrote some sincere, revealing things about Islam and the Ayatollah blew his top. He would not have been so furious had it not been true.
And if Christ is the only way to salvation, why are you here?
Because Messianic Jews believe the same as I do. Christ is the only way.
This is a unification of Jews and Christians. Do you believe the Jews here will burn for eternity? Do you honestly believe that? Because, even though they worship the SAME GOD and follow the SAME RULES and have the SAME HOLY BOOKS andthe same BASE and, in fact, the Messiah WAS A JEW?
How moronic can you possibly get? Did your parents never teach you anything? You're talking, talking, talking...but nothing but spit and air comes out. Maybe you have a mental block because you are so desperate to be in the right. But you are not in the right.
It's amazing how many Liberals, hiding their anti-Semitism, strain to bring it out in others. They yearn to point the finger so they can feel self-righteous. One hopes you are not among that number.
Yes, Jesus was a Jew, the Lamb that God chose Abraham to be the ancestor of, the sacrifice that God presaged through commanding the sacrifice of Isaac. (Viewed through history: Abraham was faithful, God spared Isaac, God gave his own son and did not spare himself)
Paul, missionary to the Gentiles, was also a Jew, and a member (former) of the Sanhedrin, and an ex-Pharisee. All the Apostles were Jews. All the early believers were Jews. Stephen, stoned by an angry Jewish mob, was a Jew. All the early martyrs were Jewish. Yes. Very Jewish. And they were all Christ-followers. Start getting the picture now, please. Christianity is not some weird European religion. Christianity (the Way) is the culmination of the process God set up for his people. A messianic Jew is a completed Jew, with circumcision of the heart as well as the body. (Romans 2:28-29) Through spiritual adoption, all Christians are Jews in God's eyes.
Through sin, no one who does not accept Christ is righteous before God. That includes those who are born Jews, Christians or Moslems. There are many who call themselves Christians who are going to hell. (Luke 13:27)
Is that what you're after? The inescapable fact that we are all doomed, all headed toward Hell? Knowing it's true and saying it doesn't cast blame on the speaker. wink "My" Rabbi Lapin is going to hell. The Ayatollah is going to hell. Except for my belief in Jesus Christ as THE savior, I am going to hell. ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. I'm not sending the Ayatollah to hell by saying he's destined for it, any more than I can make the sky blue by saying that it's blue. I don't want him to go to hell.
If Jews get to heaven, then Muslims do too- They are on the same path, they follow the SAME GOD, have the SAME HOLY BOOKS, have the SAME PROPHETS- they are simple in a new erra of time with a new prophets.
They don't get to heaven. No one gets righteous before God, except through Christ. Jesus has to be the Lord of their lives, and not a secondary prophet to Mohammed. Read this article about what an educated Moslem man went through to challenge his own faith.
And you are here telling me that Muslims are evil- That they hate Christians abnd Jews. This may be true in the current time because of political retardation, with wars and squabbles and twists of faith.
Again, let me point to Conservatives and the Iraq War, or Al Queda and 9/11. They are one in the same, justifying a politcial war on religion.
But cut through all that bullshit, and you will see that the three religions of Islam, Judaism and Christianity are the same talk2hand
You get really angry and curse at me because you can't find a flaw in my argument. You cannot find a flaw because you are not going up against me, but against facts and God's holy word. You also cling desperately to "Christian aggression! Christian aggression! waaaahhh!" without understanding the Moorish invasion, the Ottoman Empire and even 9/11.
Look at what the Qu'ran has to say:
"O ye who believe! Take not Jews and Christians for your friends and protectors; they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust."
Please don't assume in your ignorance that conflict is a new thing. But, unless the Holy Spirit opens your eyes, you won't understand anything. You're speaking from a secular standpoint, with earthly logic, and that logic has nothing to do with God's logic.
1 Cor. 2, NLT Paul the apostle says to the Christians in Corinth:
"14 But people who aren't Christians can't understand these truths from God's Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them because only those who have the Spirit can understand what the Spirit means. 15 We who have the Spirit understand these things, but others can't understand us at all. 16 How could they? For,
"Who can know what the Lord is thinking?
Who can give him counsel?"
But we can understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ.""
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:46 pm
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Do you not see how even in your conviction against muslims, you are being the SAME EXACT THING?
Saying that they are unholy and unworthy, just as you claim they say about you.
In Islam, there are a pair of creatures who ask who one's prophet was when they died.
If they answer Moses, Jesus or Mohammed, which is Jewish and Christian and Muslim, then the imps lead the one in question to the gates of heaven.
Here is an anaology of my thoughts on God-
There is a father with three children, an eldest, a middle and a youngest. He tells them to meet him in a week for a party.
He calls the eldest to remind him the day before the party. The eldest says "ah, it's probably a telemarketer" and doesn't pick up the phone- He's still going to the party, he just didn't get that call.
He calls the middle child, who picks up the phone, talks to the father and hangs up. Then, the middle child leaves early to go to the party to wait there.
The final child, the youngest, gets the call. Then, after a bit, he gets another call from the father asking if he can bring chips and dip.
Basically, all three have the same father. They're all going to the same place, and they'll all get there on time. Some of them missed some messages, but really, it's their FATHER. He's not going to disown them because they didn't pick up the phone, or because they got the wrong kind of salsa at the store.
And one final question- Do yo believe that Jesus is God?
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Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:01 pm
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divineseraph Do you not see how even in your conviction against muslims, you are being the SAME EXACT THING?
Incorrect. I'm not the one with the Book that says to slay all infidels.
And, let's say, Muslims and Christians are equally stubborn about their faith. Does that mean their faiths are the same? Does that cancel out both faiths? Does that automatically mean they should join? How can that even make sense to you?
divineseraph And one final question- Do yo believe that Jesus is God?
Yes.
One cannot be a Christ-follower if one disbelieves that. This is a mystery: that is, something we don't fully understand. How can Christ be God and pray to Himself? There is a 3-in-1 Triune God, which is as close as you're going to get to Tri-Unity. wink Scriptural backup:
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Phillipians 2, NLT
6 Though he was God, he did not demand and cling to his rights as God. 7 He made himself nothing; he took the humble position of a slave and appeared in human form. 8 And in human form he obediently humbled himself even further by dying a criminal's death on a cross. |
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Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:41 pm
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