Restoring the ATG's former Glory

[Kalstolyn]

Kals is questing again!

That's probably part of the issue -- we're all pretty blunt these days.

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[Bassios]

I've just given the thread an extended read through (meaning I skim read through it yesterday, and have only just gotten around to reading through it properly), and I think everyone's raising some pretty good points. We do need a better way of welcoming new users, and we need to stop jumping on them if they make a mistake (and I'm fairly certain I've been guilty of this on one or two occasions).

Let me tell you a brief story (which is related, I swear):~

I remember when I joined Gaia as a whole (and damn was that a while ago). After maybe 3 days someone PM'd me, being all "Hi, welcome to Gaia!" Confused though I was, I replied and chatted with this person. To this day, I still don't how they got my username, but they were pretty cool. This initial conversation is what got me to stay here, and eventually give me the confidence to post in forums other than the chatterbox.

I personally think we need some way of new members getting their initial conversation over and done with as soon as they join the ATG. Whilst we can't have a headhunt of all the new members ('cause that'd be freaky), maybe we could have some system where users that feel confident enough can publicly "open their inbox", as it were, and allow new members to PM them and have a chat. This might make it easier for members to join in, because once they know they have one person in here that they "know" maybe they'll have the confidence to jump in. It may not work, but I think it's worth a try.

I also think making the link to the ATG wiki a bit more prominent would be a good idea, the only reason I can get to it most of the time is because I’ve remembered the address.

All in all, I think we’ve all got the right ideas but we just need to find a way of implementing them. It also might be an idea to have some way for new and mid members to have somewhere to offer up suggestions on how to make new members feel more welcome, and to suggest things that they thought were missing from the current procedure.

It’s all worth a try, I think.

 

[Thaliat Everwood]

OK, I'm still on the fence as to whether I consider myself a regular or a lurker. I don't see a lot of the drama as I keep out of the Phunkeah most of the time. I try not to get involved in the personal disputes as they erupt. This is probably why I feel so confused when people leave.

I've got my own enemies in the guild, I just choose not to fire back at the pettiness that has come out attached to my character, hence it is not an issue. There are even those who would probably want me to leave the guild for things that happen in RL that have nothing to do with the guild. But out of respect for the guild, I try hard not to drag my issues with other guild members into the guild. I like the idea of the "Leave the War at the Door" policy. I try to practice it every day. I think it would be good if it became a regular practice throughout the guild.

As for newbies, I try to be helpful and open to all of them. I remember my first few months in the ATG feeling awkward and constantly fretting about saying the wrong thing to the wrong person. It takes time to establish one's self in a guild like this. I think we might want to consider a Newbie subforum so maybe the newer members can have a place to post freely without getting threads locked so often, just relocated. Getting a thread locked is kind of an embarrassing insult when you are trying to fit in. I had one thread of mine locked and removed, and while I agree with the choice, it still felt demeaning to be one of those posters with a locked thread. So long as a newbie's thread isn't offensive, why not just have a place it can be moved to, such as a non discussion forum...a training forum of sorts. Most guilds are not nearly as discussion oriented as the ATG, so I am not surprised to see as many locked threads by new members as I have seen, but I think it would be less discouraging to not have a wall of locked threads greet one's eyes when entering the ATG. Just a thought.

Anyway, there have been some good suggestions so far in this thread. I still need to go back and finish reading a few of them thoroughly. But I agree with a lot that has been said so far.  

[AlcoholicPancake]

I'm glad to see more people are responding in this thread.

Anyway, on to topic.

@Bass - In regards to what you said about their initial conversations. I've always made a note to send a PM to ANYONE I accept into the guild saying something along the lines of:

"Hello, I'm AlcoholicPancake, and I'd like to welcome you to the Any Topic Guild. Please read the rules before posting, and don't forget to introduce yourself in the introduction thread. If you have any questions about anything, please feel free to PM myself, or another mod. A list of other mods can be found in "The Welcome Thread." I hope you enjoy your stay here.

Sincerely,
AlcoholicPancake"


Now, I'm not sure if the other mods do this, or if they just accept everyone. I'm not saying that they have to, because I've seen how big that list of pending requests can get, and it would take FOREVER for one person to do that, unless they had something already typed out that they copy pasted into the PM field. Hmmm, actually, idea forming...

@Thal - First off, I'm glad to hear that you already practice the "leave the War at the Door" policy. I'm glad to hear that, because it shows that even if you don't get along with people, you can still be civil with them. and come to think of it, I don't think I recall you ever being in a huge argument in the guild... Then again, I was also gone for about 2 years since I lost internet, so I may have missed something.

I also understand the embarrassment that is having a thread locked. When I was knew I had 3 locked on me. I didn't understand why at first, but when I PM'd a mod asking about it, they gave me the reason and then I understood. Yes, I'll admit I can see how having a thread locked can be embarrassing, but at the same time, you also learn what's good to post, and what's not good to post, if you haven't read the rules of course, which I don't think many new people do...

@Shram - I agree with what you think of this thread, it's good to admit what we are doing as mistakes, rather than pointing out everyone elses. As for you're getting blunt... Well, most of the regulars in the ATG know each others posting styles and mannerisms, so it's not needed to sugar coat ALL your posts. The only problem is, with the recent surge of new members, this could cause problems. We once again need to put things carefully, and some of us may not realize that need to do so. Hell, I'll admit I've been pretty blunt about things and offended a few new people in the past week. It's just something that I still need to work on.

@Kals - I agree. I think the IRC Chatroom would be good for newer members to jump right into some conversations with some people, and possibly be put on the right track with things, or maybe even to just build confidence with the other members, and to get to know them. The ATG Talk Show was always a fun idea, and that'd be a fun thing to recreate too. You're right about this community growing stagnant, and about it needing a good stir...

Hey though, I'd be more than happy to be a part of that welcoming committee you spoke of. I can be nice to new members and show them the ropes.

@Aretoo - Hey Are, at least you're trying to point them in the right direction and talk to them. It shows them that there is someone in the guild that will talk to them, so it's not always bad a thing.  

[wakusei]

I have been reading the thread! But I'm not sure what to add.

I feel much like Thal in that whole feeling more like a lurker when I find myself more confused about people leaving than anything else.

Even though new threads come up in the guild regularly, the Phunkeh Thread always seems like that's where the action's at. That's where you should post. And then when people do and are ignored or feel lost in the conversation...it's not gonna give them much hope to be a part of the guild. I really don't know a good way to get around this. It's like The Phunkeh Thread is both the bane and backbone of this guild.

 

[aretoo]

Hm... True words about Phunkeh being the backbone and bane... however, I at least read the other topics. Whether or not I say anything about the topic depends on whether or not I feel I have anything I can add to the topic. smile  

[AlcoholicPancake]

Ehh, that's not too bad Aretoo... I mean, if you feel you can't add anything to the topic, then you have every right to not post in the thread.

I'm guilty overlooking a lot of threads and not even checking them out >_>

Haha, some mod I am, eh? crying

Hell, I wouldn't have even found the porn troll if it wasn't for Omo and Shram pointing them out in the "Recruiting New Members Thread"  

[Alarias]

Alright I've read this whole thread...and I've read other comments from members in different threads throughout the guild. I have to say I'm actually a bit surprised at how many people think the guild is full of drama now....when to me, it's seemed...almost too quiet and dull...no action at all.

I know there has been one incident with some drama in it but, other than that...I haven't seen anyone really at anyone's throat confused
And ...I do remember a good deal of times when this guild has been nothing but drama...so, I'm just like "huh?" in regards to this issue.

I can understand the guild having a "clique-ish" type feel to it...but, what do you expect when people have been coming to the same place for months ..even years in some cases?
It's ...practically impossible to get around that happening really.
And really, like Sanzo said...I've seen people make that complaint before now...long before now...and yet we have new regulars who managed to get past it.
So, I can't say I really see this clique business as anything that can be "fixed" or changed. It's just something newer members have to ...work with or around. If they post regularly, they too will be a regular eventually and probably get drawn into their own cliques within this guild. And what's wrong with that?
Yes inside jokes aren't funny for new people, but I think they're important for members who've been here for a long time. They show history and bring back memories and help remind you why you're still here. Discouraging anyone from using them is...in my opinion, ...useless and ...well, ...a waste of time.
Even if nobody ever mentions another inside joke, that clique feeling will still be here. So, yeah...

Also, I do remember when I first joined here. Back then there weren't any subforums and I spent most of my time posting in the game threads and in the more light-hearted threads floating around. There were already a good amount of people posting...more activity then there is now (it seemed like anyways)...
Not every post I made was noticed and even now I still get overlooked sometimes...that's just a hazard of being in a large guild with active members. I understood that then and I still do now. You can't join a big guild and just expect everyone in the place to sit up and say something to any tiny remark you make and take immediate notice of you. There have been some cases where people posted in here for weeks or even months before I started recognizing them. That's ...just the way things are and ...I doubt it'll change any time soon. It's not necessarily that we're all high and mighty. We just don't always see every post or ..we don't always have something to say in response to a post.

I do try to be welcoming to new members...but, you know...if people are intimidated what can you do? I, for one, don't have that easy of a time making small talk with strangers...so, me PMing someone I don't know out of the blue ...well, probably would only make that new member uncomfortable xp

As for the whole being too hard on new people thing....
I'm going to take this moment to stand up for the ATG here...I've seen a lot of members - Kals, Bass, Sanzo, aretoo (just to name a few) - go out of their way to be nice about correcting people's mistakes. Mistakes that wouldn't have been made if the new people had bothered to read the rules in the first place.
So, I'm sorry but, I think the ATG's doing fine or at least a hell of a lot better about that now. Really..I'm beginning to think these new new people are just...bigger babies =/
Suck it up...so what if someone online thinks you're stupid? That's always going to happen no matter what community you go to or game you play or website you visit. People can and will be jerks sometimes...just let it go. And take the advice you're given when someone being nice gives it to you. But, if you read the rules, have some common sense, and don't overreact to every bit of criticism you get, you'll be fine here and just about everywhere else (online and off).

And as for "having to prove yourself here".
I've joined and been apart of lots of guilds...and in my experience, having to prove yourself is just...a part of the process. You have to obey rules to be able to socialize with the people in those guilds. You have to have a decent personality to make anyone like you. Proving yourself is a part of being new. Prove that you aren't an idiot and that you're a decent person to talk to or that you have qualities others can admire and enjoy.
I think that's normal neutral
And yes ...this guild does have more rules than some guilds... it's not a pollwhoring guild. It's not a mini Chatterbox. It's not a giant thread for beggars. But you should know that when you take a look at the home page neutral Common. Sense.

Maybe I'm just being an asshat elitist oldbie now...but, I just think that...if someone can't handle the way the ATG is currently...then...they probably wouldn't stick around long anyways...cause this is seriously not the worst this guild has ever been...srsly.

I'm really not trying to put down attempts to improve the guild but, I just ...had to stick up for this place and its members because I've seen improvement and I think it should be acknowledged.

So, to wrap this up -
If you're new don't be afraid to talk to us. Post in the Phunkeh thread. Get involved. Don't get discouraged if your post gets overlooked. That thread can move quickly and people can get distracted. Just keep at it. You just have to keep showing up and make an effort and I guarantee people will respond to and accept you. If you can't think of anything to talk about, check out the subforums. Games are a great icebreaker and a good way of becoming familiar with members in a relaxed, easy-going, often goofy environment. smile
If someone yells at you, just be mature about it. Remember if you're having trouble you can always ask a mod for help. There's a list of the active mods in the Welcome sticky.
To the regulars here, ...keep up the good work guys. And good luck with any new ideas you all come up with. If y'all need any help with anything, hit me up and I'll see what I can do...I have lots of spare time xp


Also...this is why I shouldn't venture into this subforum...congrats to anyone who actually read this entire post.  

[Shram]

I am an old ATG member =]

Ala Your capabilities of writing a lot impresses me >.>
as for on topic... I don't really know what to say to your wall of text
I'll have to reread it after I am back from town.

Click here for the ATG Wiki!
Click here to PM Me regarding ATG.
I am not a Mod but I am a regular and will always answer if you ask =]

 

[Sanzoskitsune]

I will say one thing to support Ala, some of our new members have been assholes. I know I've had at least one or two PM me after I locked their thread and DEMAND to know why. They've been jerks about it. And there have also been a couple of members who, while they try to jump right in, do it in a way that doesn't really... work. They end up attacking people for the most random of crap and well we're not going to be nice to them just because they're new. If they are going to be rude and mean to friends we've made here I see no reason to go out of my way and be extra nice. I'm not gonna be an a*****e back but... I think you guys know where I'm going with that.

Also I've noticed mention of not locking threads but moving them to some subforum for that stuff and honestly... that sounds like a huge problem waiting to happen. I know you guys want to help the new members ease in but I don't think we should lower our standards either. If getting your thread locked is enough to make you quit the guild well then you weren't gonna last very long either. Creating a subforum for the newbies is just going to encourage people to make these kinds of threads. That's how I see it anyway. Locking their threads shows them what they can't and can post.  

[Kalstolyn]

Kals is questing again!

I think locking inappropriate threads and letting them be seen is the best way for new people to see what is and what isn't an appropriate topic to post.

@Ala: Congratulations for saying what I was thinking. There's only so much we can do to make things easy for new folk. We're not a kindergarten class. If someone can't handle it here, they ought to suck it up buttercup, and we'll be careful not to be mean about it. I try to give constructive feedback to new (or not so new) people who mess up so that they can learn how things work around here and have an easier time of things, but apparently that is seen as attacking or calling people stupid or something. I got a PM from someone the other day after I posted in their thread explaining why maybe this wasn't the best topic and pointing them to a more appropriate place... they said that I should "read the whole thing before commenting" and called me an idiot for daring to tell them anything. O.o Why am I being nice to this person again?

Kals' Collaborative Crossword Puzzle!

PM for details!

 

[Shram]

I am an old ATG member =]

And you guys wonder why I was using the hammer of ban so much in the past xD

Click here for the ATG Wiki!
Click here to PM Me regarding ATG.
I am not a Mod but I am a regular and will always answer if you ask =]

 

[Sanzoskitsune]

You hit one of my points perfectly Kals! Some of the complaints aren't even real complaints. Some new members are complaining because they can't make BS threads and while I do want people to feel welcome and make friends here, I do not think we should lower our standards and basically have the same crap that's pulled on most of Gaia in here. I mean obviously, we shouldn't be mean just to be mean but I don't think we should put up with crap from jerks either...  

[[ Terra ]]

Well put, Ala.

Sometimes I have the tendency to drift into lurker mode. Especially in terms of the Phunkeh Thread. I can only imagine that to a new member that it must look quite intimidating. I've been in the ATG since the pretty early days and I think even then it was easy to see that bonds were being made and people were earning a name for themselves. In real life, when someone new enters your group of friends you don't drop your in jokes, your group history just to make them comfortable though. You try to welcome them and if you click then you make your own history and new in jokes with them.

I don't think we should have sub-forum for the new members can run amuck because I can imagine that it will only be a matter of time until the spammy threads bleed over into the main forum. To be honest, if a new member has three threads all locked on the first page (which seems to happen often...) then it may just be that this isn't the right guild for them. I've joined communities before to find that their style just isn't right for me. It's no tragic loss. It's just the internet. Likewise, if someone is going to fly off the handle because their first thread is locked and they're redirected to the Introduce Yourself thread then I probably don't want to talk to a person like that anyway.

As part of the application process, maybe people should have to read the rules first and provide some kind of indication that they have. Or how about having to submit the phrase "I swear that my first post will be in the Introduce Yourself Here thread". I can understand why people may be hesitant to introduce something like that but I only suggest this because there seems to be a big problem with new members skipping over the rules of the guild and getting off on the wrong foot because of it. Too often I see someone make a thread introducing themselves, it gets locked, they get offended/embarressed and then I never see their username around again. These threads are also the kind where older members seem to sometimes come into conflict because they disagree with how someone else has responded to it.

Anyway, I think providing a newbie sub-forum won't work too well. Besides, it could actually increase the gap because older members probably won't really mingle in there. It could become even easier to paint people as "newbe" and "oldie". It's kind of like having a kids table at the family dinner. When are will the newbies be ready to join us at the adults table anyway? However, one site I sometimes go on does have a forum for new members. It's called the New Students Sanctuary and there new members can ask for help and get adopted by a mentor. Maybe we could try something like this, but I think for our purposes, a single thread would be better. It would take some effort from older members to see it be effective though. People will have to raise a hand to mentor people: answer their questions... introduce them to the apparently intimidating Phunkeh thread...  

[AlcoholicPancake]

[ Terra ]

However, one site I sometimes go on does have a forum for new members. It's called the New Students Sanctuary and there new members can ask for help and get adopted by a mentor. Maybe we could try something like this, but I think for our purposes, a single thread would be better. It would take some effort from older members to see it be effective though. People will have to raise a hand to mentor people: answer their questions... introduce them to the apparently intimidating Phunkeh thread...

I actually like that idea a bit... It'd give newer members the chance to talk to older members right away, and give them a feeling of being welcome, and at the same time, show them what kind of topics are good, and which ones will just get locked. I think that could turn out to be pretty interesting.

I'd be more than happy to be a mentor for some fresh meat here in the ATG =3