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Undignified Indiana Joans
Crew

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:19 am


Hanajima Arashi
There are two things about this issue that really bother me.

One is the people who think that the industry is purposely trying to rip them off, and therefore see themselves as bringers of justice that are "sticking it to the man" by not buying anime. And when the industry dies because of this attitude, those who will really be screwed are the people who work or want to work in the industry. Like me.

The other thing that bugs me is when people act like "I don't have enough money to buy all of the anime I want to watch so I *have* to download it!"

...No. You are not going to die from lack of anime. I'm living proof that one series at a time can sustain a human being. I have no idea where this attitude of "I deserve to watch everything I want no matter what!" came from, but if people didn't have it they might be more productive in life and thus be able to buy more anime legally. A vicious cycle. XP


I always laugh at the people that say they have to download. It always makes me want to say "Wait?! It's essential to life?! Then how come there's so many people out there that don't care about it or don't even know it exists?! How are they surviving?" Of course, they're usually the ones that are overly rude to others and the ones screaming that english dubs suck no matter what and if you like them you must be a noob, because nothing is better than a youtube fansub, y'know?

Those are the people that sadly, I think there's no hope for. ;; And even worse, there's more of them than the ones that are actually out there to support the industry.

^people like that make me want to stab my eyes with a spork.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:23 pm


I support fansubs and scanlations fully, as it provides an opportunity to look into new things. Just like I firmly believe in the free downloading of music (burn in hell, iTunes), I think that free downloading of anime and manga is a good thing, but the idiots who merely download with zero intention of future purchases give a bad name to those who download for sampling purposes, like me.

Because I really want to know what I'm going to be watching before I shell out money for it. Unfortunately, for me, transactions over the internet isn't an option, since I don't have a credit or debit card, and my mother refuses to let her number out on the internet, and with good reason. Hell, I don't blame her for that one bit.

But I digress. If I had the money to shell out 20 bucks a DVD every time, I'd only need to watch three or four episodes. However, things don't work like that with me. Once I watch three or four episodes, I find myself wanting to have more, so I end up watching the entire series based on what I downloaded.

In any case, it's not like I'll never watch it again after watching it on the computer. If I like it enough, you bet your a** I'm going to buy it, and the corresponding files on my computer are going bye-bye as soon as that happens.

Ethereal Cereal


Tarantellatears

PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:25 am


meGgi e s t A e R I a
thestarthatshines
meGgi e s t A e R I a
People can't tell me they can't afford it, 'cause my collection is living proof they're lieing through their teeth.

Indeed it is, and I admire you muchly for that.

I'm not going to justify my reading/watching anime/manga online, I'm just going to say I literally never have a cent to my name - I don't even get allowance. Though if Meggie is annoyed she could choose to be mean and yell at me to stop buying soda and save it for manga. >>;
Which is true, but a single dollar is so far few and in between for me that it's ridiculous. In addition to the fact that I most often acquire them by mooching off my sister or my friends, specifically for the purpose because if I don't get caffine I'll fall asleep in class and get kicked out.
Meggie dear frequently gets $100 dollars from her family - or well, moreso than most. I'm lucky if I get $5 every two months. So. When I get money, I will buy, but the fact of the matter is I am penniless the large majority of the time. I do admire you all and your money saving skills, but I was born without that particular gene. . .But I happen to have $10 atm, so I'm visiting the bookstore this week. : D


Hayhayyyy now! I only get $100 in the holidays!!!! The only reason I got some here recently was because of graduation!

Anyways. I wouldn't yell at you for buying soda with it anyways 'cause I know how hard it can be to stay awake D:
Although, soda is a nasty habbit you need to break hon. <3

EDIT: you admire me? Aww ;; I looove you <3333


I know, I know. But I've never had $100 all to my own - well, actually, one time I had $165, but I was in mexico and it had to be used for travel purposes, then my parents stole the rest and bought me an mp3 player for my birthday. Basically, when I get large amounts of money I'm not allowed to touch it. So you get them far more often than I.
Now, what shall I buy tomorrow? =D

and I know, I know. . .darn you high fructose corn syrup!

and of course I do! Why else would I hang around? ^^
I've found that it's rather hard for me to be friends with people I don't admire. <3
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:32 am


meGgi e s t A e R I a
Hanajima Arashi
There are two things about this issue that really bother me.

One is the people who think that the industry is purposely trying to rip them off, and therefore see themselves as bringers of justice that are "sticking it to the man" by not buying anime. And when the industry dies because of this attitude, those who will really be screwed are the people who work or want to work in the industry. Like me.

The other thing that bugs me is when people act like "I don't have enough money to buy all of the anime I want to watch so I *have* to download it!"

...No. You are not going to die from lack of anime. I'm living proof that one series at a time can sustain a human being. I have no idea where this attitude of "I deserve to watch everything I want no matter what!" came from, but if people didn't have it they might be more productive in life and thus be able to buy more anime legally. A vicious cycle. XP


I always laugh at the people that say they have to download. It always makes me want to say "Wait?! It's essential to life?! Then how come there's so many people out there that don't care about it or don't even know it exists?! How are they surviving?" Of course, they're usually the ones that are overly rude to others and the ones screaming that english dubs suck no matter what and if you like them you must be a noob, because nothing is better than a youtube fansub, y'know?

Those are the people that sadly, I think there's no hope for. ;; And even worse, there's more of them than the ones that are actually out there to support the industry.

^people like that make me want to stab my eyes with a spork.


No no, you're supposed to stab them with the spork.

I completely agree, and it's not hard to quite a series either. I used to be obsessed with Inuyasha, but now I don't even touch it or talk about it really - unless I'm A.) in the bookstore and see the volume that I could never find, and then only to comment on irony. or B.) Someone else brings it up.
I could really care less actually. Nothing we do for entertainment is essential to life.
I want to smack people sometimes.

Tarantellatears


Cheremy LeBeau
Captain

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:13 am


This is sorta @ skribbelgrl, Shezni and King Progdor just to cover the similar points you raised:

I really must protest when you attempt to justify "sampling" anime/manga online. There are two sides to my argument really. Firstly, there is a habit that it's likely most of us have, which is reading fanlations and watching fansubs of current series we already collect ahead of their English release. I have absoluely no problem with the concept of viewing unlicensed material with intent to buy once it has been released. Of course, we could just wait, but if a series is good enough for you to part with your cash, who wants to wait? XD I don't reckon it counts as a sampling, unless you "forget" to purchase it later.

Secondly, there's the argument that gets to me. Sure, you might "sample" something online to test whether or not you enjoy it, but what if you don't enjoy it? Basically, you're stealing all the series you decide aren't for you. I simply cannot see ethical reason in doing that. It isn't illegal to flick through manga in shops if you want to sample something. It isn't illegal to borrow from your friends to get a feel for a series. It isn't illegal to do your research by reading plot summaries, reviews and ratings. It isn't illegal to join forums (such as Gaia) to ask people for detailed opinions on series you're interested in. If you want to sample something, I've just listed four ways you can do it legally, so seriously try harder to persuade yourself that what you're doing is ethical.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:27 am


Hanajima Arashi took the words right out of my keyboard XP

Where do people get this idea that they "need" anime/manga? It's a luxury that we're blessed to enjoy on the rare occations that we can afford it. It won't disappear just becasue you can't afford to buy it this very second. When did being an anime/manga fan become a competition to watch/read as many titles as possible? What happened to the excitement of risking it with every occational purchase? Sure, I might spend £10 on a volume of Bleach only to discover I hate it, but so what? It's better than wasting £35 on the entire box set. Yesterday I bought two manga titles I'd never even heard of before; if I don't like them, shame on me, I could give them away or sell they on eBay. This kinda extends from my "sampling" argument, because there are ways to sample things without spending a fortune.

Urgh, I just can't accept it when people attempt to justify theft.

Cheremy LeBeau
Captain


Undignified Indiana Joans
Crew

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:19 pm


Cheremy LeBeau
Hanajima Arashi took the words right out of my keyboard XP

Where do people get this idea that they "need" anime/manga? It's a luxury that we're blessed to enjoy on the rare occations that we can afford it. It won't disappear just becasue you can't afford to buy it this very second. When did being an anime/manga fan become a competition to watch/read as many titles as possible? What happened to the excitement of risking it with every occational purchase? Sure, I might spend £10 on a volume of Bleach only to discover I hate it, but so what? It's better than wasting £35 on the entire box set. Yesterday I bought two manga titles I'd never even heard of before; if I don't like them, shame on me, I could give them away or sell they on eBay. This kinda extends from my "sampling" argument, because there are ways to sample things without spending a fortune.

Urgh, I just can't accept it when people attempt to justify theft.


I know several people that apparently "need" anime ._.

I wanted to smack them. Ugh. Not only is it immature, but it's rather a pathetic excuse for doing it.

I've decided also I 4srsly hate fansubs, and I already thought I had it bad. I also dislike the whole sub-purist thing. They make me want to do some serious smacking (yes, I had a little argument xDD shall I share? :3 )
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:22 pm


Ooooh, what titles did you get? ^_^

And

I totally understand both sides to the sampling, while I understand that money is tight, and people are willing to support but they cannot buy something and afford to dislike it, I also see the other side of things, that because they aren't buying, they're basically ripping the artist/writer off because they simply didn't enjoy that person's work. However, like we've discussed, anime + manga isn't that exspensive, like you mentioned Cher, you could always buy only a volume or two first, or borrow it from a friend or even the library as well =]

Undignified Indiana Joans
Crew


Ethereal Cereal

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:06 pm


I honestly don't see free downloading as unethical. I used to, but getting cable internet definitely changed my tune.

Sure, I'll be getting everything that I possibly can. Hell, I even have a list of items to get once I have a more steady income. For me, downloading anime is a way to broaden horizons. Just like I would download an album by a band before shelling out money for it, to see if I like it, with no reservations about it.

The thing is, music is different for me, from anime. First of all, bands don't get their biggest sales from CDs, but from concerts and merchandise. It's the record labels that get the cash, and I really don't mind ******** over the record labels. Most of 'em suck anyways, but I digress.

The second thing is, I'm incredibly open to music, as opposed to anime. Blind purchases for music are also less expensive, mainly because I buy used. I have no problem with picking up a CD for 3 bucks even if I've never listened to the band. With anime, I'm a little more cautious because most DVDs aren't 3 bucks.

I understand that anime creators rely on DVD and manga sales to get money. However, downloading is a quick and easy way to broaden one's horizons in a flash, then making a list of items to get once they've been spotted. I have no problem supporting the creators, don't get me wrong. I buy manga on a somewhat regular basis.

And once I DO get something, like I've explained many times before, I delete the files on my computer to free up space, as well as force myself to make use of the DVDs that I shelled out the cash to acquire.

For me, it's a balance of both. I download to try new things, but I also have the bargain hunter/collector mentality that causes me to want to get things. Situations differ from person to person. Like, I can't participate in online transactions. Why? I prefer not to. Identity theft is too real a threat for me to be messing with that. I also have no friends closeby who are into anime, so that's out. And the libraries around here don't carry DVDs, to my knowledge at least.

In a nutshell, I try to buy what I can WHEN I can. In between, though, I find new things to keep me occupied.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:53 pm


In any case, I'm not going to rationalise any longer. We'll have to agree to disagree here. I download. Doesn't bug me. I'm used to it. I buy what I can, when I can.

I'm gonna close the argument, because for me it's getting old. I'm tired of explaining myself and getting involved.

Ethereal Cereal


Cheremy LeBeau
Captain

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:05 pm


You can broaden your horizons without downloading, so it's not as though you're using downloads as a last resort, just the cheapest resort. As much as I admire fans who are eagar to watch a variety of anime, they lose their "fan" status when they steal from the industry. Obviously it's different when you download unlicenced material, because there's no way to pay for it until imports become available or the material is licenced in your country (again, it does count if you fail to purchase the material once it does become available.)

When you "try new things" but don't like them, how are you supporting the industry? I'm assuming you haven't bought anything you "tried" and didn't like, right? I'm sorry that you feel that way about online shopping, but it doesn't give you any right over others to steal. If you don't know about libraries that contain anime, do more research perhaps? There are always other options, so it doesn't help to dismiss the options given to you without exploring your own. The Blackwells in Leicester Square had a 3 for 2 offer recently (that I sadly missed T___T) and there are always shops doing deals and sales, you'll always find a bargain if you get off your arse and search for one, trust me. Hehe. I'll never exploit the industry just because there are people with access to more anime/manga than me, that's selfish, illogicical and immoral.

It's not that I'd let you off for admitting what you're doing is wrong, but it does make things worse that you rip things off and lie about the criminality of it. At least admit what you're doing is wrong.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:17 pm


King Progdor
In any case, I'm not going to rationalise any longer. We'll have to agree to disagree here. I download. Doesn't bug me. I'm used to it. I buy what I can, when I can.

I'm gonna close the argument, because for me it's getting old. I'm tired of explaining myself and getting involved.

I'm not trying to start an argument, just a discussion. Arguments are immature. I don't see what's wrong with voicing opinions and disagreeing with each other, so don't think I'm disagreeing with you for the sake of being mindlessly agressively. I know it's hard to read tone and emotion over the Internet, but trust me, I'm not getting angry or trying to upset you any way. Honestly, I enjoy reading other peoples' opinions and sharing my own.

Cheremy LeBeau
Captain


Ethereal Cereal

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:19 pm


Cheremy LeBeau
King Progdor
In any case, I'm not going to rationalise any longer. We'll have to agree to disagree here. I download. Doesn't bug me. I'm used to it. I buy what I can, when I can.

I'm gonna close the argument, because for me it's getting old. I'm tired of explaining myself and getting involved.

I'm not trying to start an argument, just a discussion. Arguments are immature. I don't see what's wrong with voicing opinions and disagreeing with each other, so don't think I'm disagreeing with you for the sake of being mindlessly agressively. I know it's hard to read tone and emotion over the Internet, but trust me, I'm not getting angry or trying to upset you any way. Honestly, I enjoy reading other peoples' opinions and sharing my own.


I'm just getting sick of having to explain myself. I personally have no problem with free downloading. You may, but that's you. It's not me. The technology is there, I think it should be used. As long as I buy it, seriously, what harm is there?
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T.E.N.T.A.C.L.E.S.

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