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 Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:57 pm
Anonymous... dboyzero: I was once a practitioner of witchcraft, and as such can give you the example of magick you so crave.
Here is the hypothetical situation: I lent my friend a book 6 months ago, and it has not been returned.
I want my book back.
So I now cast a spell, perform magick, to get it back.
This does not force the borrower to give the book back - that is not how witchcraft is said to work - one cannot interfere with free will.
Instead, the spell is supposed to draw the object back to me.
This is how the spell goes:
I take a yoyo and begin to play it up and down - this symbolises the book being taken away from me and then coming back, thus helping me to focus on the purpose of my spell.
Still playing with the yoyo, I say this incantation:
What is mine returns to me,
By the power of three times three.
What is mine returns to me.
This is my will. So mote it be.
I continue to do this as long as I remain focused.
The 'three times three' part of the incantation refers to the threefold law that lilraine mentioned earlier.
Allow me to clarify how this practise of magick, witchcraft, is said to work.
-Nothing will work unless you believe it will work.
-During a spell, one must remain focused on what it is they want this spell to achieve. For example the use of the yoyo in the above spell is not necessary, it is just a tool to help one remained focused.
-Spells are less likely to work if you don't need them, for example, if you are very rich and have more money than you need, and cast a spell to draw money to you, this is unlikely to have much effect. However, if you actually need money for something, the spell is much more likely to work for you.
And now I must go to bed (I live in England, it's 11:29pm here).
Damn you two, keeping my up with your riveting discussion! blaugh yay! someone else who understands what I'm talking about! and yeah, 'need' is definately necessary. as is emotion. emotion raises personal energy. the greater the need, the greater the emotion, the more powerful the energy, the more likely you'll get results. smile
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Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:35 pm
lilraine Anonymous... dboyzero: I was once a practitioner of witchcraft, and as such can give you the example of magick you so crave.
Here is the hypothetical situation: I lent my friend a book 6 months ago, and it has not been returned.
I want my book back.
So I now cast a spell, perform magick, to get it back.
This does not force the borrower to give the book back - that is not how witchcraft is said to work - one cannot interfere with free will.
Instead, the spell is supposed to draw the object back to me.
This is how the spell goes:
I take a yoyo and begin to play it up and down - this symbolises the book being taken away from me and then coming back, thus helping me to focus on the purpose of my spell.
Still playing with the yoyo, I say this incantation:
What is mine returns to me,
By the power of three times three.
What is mine returns to me.
This is my will. So mote it be.
I continue to do this as long as I remain focused.
The 'three times three' part of the incantation refers to the threefold law that lilraine mentioned earlier.
Allow me to clarify how this practise of magick, witchcraft, is said to work.
-Nothing will work unless you believe it will work.
-During a spell, one must remain focused on what it is they want this spell to achieve. For example the use of the yoyo in the above spell is not necessary, it is just a tool to help one remained focused.
-Spells are less likely to work if you don't need them, for example, if you are very rich and have more money than you need, and cast a spell to draw money to you, this is unlikely to have much effect. However, if you actually need money for something, the spell is much more likely to work for you.
And now I must go to bed (I live in England, it's 11:29pm here).
Damn you two, keeping my up with your riveting discussion! blaugh yay! someone else who understands what I'm talking about! and yeah, 'need' is definately necessary. as is emotion. emotion raises personal energy. the greater the need, the greater the emotion, the more powerful the energy, the more likely you'll get results. smile mrgreen
It's always nice when you find another person who knows about witchcraft. There's still so much negativity about it. Woops, I think I may be going off topic. sweatdrop
I apologize.
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Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:31 pm
eh, the topic seems fairly dead anyway at this point. no worries smile
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Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 2:22 pm
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Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:08 am
not quite dead yet. wink
Here's the thing, using your example: how can we know that the spell actually worked? If it takes year for you to get your book back, does that really count as the spell causing it to be returned? The way I see it, you can keep believing and believing that it'll come back, and one of two things will happen: If the book does come back (by whatever means), than you can say it was the result of the spell, regardless of how long it took. If the book doesn't come back, you can say it was the result of you not believing enough. Either way, it's a non-falsifiable scenario.
I propose this experiment. If someone were to take something very precious to you (so that you really want it back), put it in a safety deposit box and throw away the key, would any amount of magick be able to return to you that object? What would change if you knew the location of the box, or if you didn't?
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:42 pm
Calypsophia eh, the topic seems fairly dead anyway at this point. no worries smile It's not dead yet! And I'm also coming back to Paganism, and I understand what you mean. There's magick, which is a spiritual thing, and then there's magic, which is showy stuff- pulling a rabbit out of a hat, disappearing card tricks, etcetera. And I do believe in magick.
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:52 am
dboyzero not quite dead yet. wink Here's the thing, using your example: how can we know that the spell actually worked? If it takes year for you to get your book back, does that really count as the spell causing it to be returned? The way I see it, you can keep believing and believing that it'll come back, and one of two things will happen: If the book does come back (by whatever means), than you can say it was the result of the spell, regardless of how long it took. If the book doesn't come back, you can say it was the result of you not believing enough. Either way, it's a non-falsifiable scenario. I propose this experiment. If someone were to take something very precious to you (so that you really want it back), put it in a safety deposit box and throw away the key, would any amount of magick be able to return to you that object? What would change if you knew the location of the box, or if you didn't? well, there's a lot of psychology to magick, so if it was lets say stolen, and you knew who took it, one's working could give you the courage and confidence to talk the person into giving it back. it can serve to change ones mental attitude towards a situation and cause them to act in a way congruent to their particular needs. or perhaps, it could cause the person who took the item to feel guilt and return the item of his/her own accord. or perhaps if you knew where it was, you could do something that could help you find the key to said lock-box. such a working would cause either the item to be drawn to you, or you drawn to the item. that's basically how prayer works, but prayer outwardly is relying on some external being to do your bidding. and while witches do call on deity to aide their magick, they dont always. I, more often than not would rely on the energy within me (personal power). it's not all just a bunch of hocus-pocus. much of the ritual, incantations, etc involved is there for psychological reasons. to put one in the proper frame of mind, instill a positive attitude, to give you a sense of power it might take to overcome a situation. btw, sorry so late in replying!
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:53 am
TerrahFae Calypsophia eh, the topic seems fairly dead anyway at this point. no worries smile It's not dead yet! And I'm also coming back to Paganism, and I understand what you mean. There's magick, which is a spiritual thing, and then there's magic, which is showy stuff- pulling a rabbit out of a hat, disappearing card tricks, etcetera. And I do believe in magick. I believe simply because I've seen too much to consider it mere coincidence.
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:40 pm
Calypsophia well, there's a lot of psychology to magick, so if it was lets say stolen, and you knew who took it, one's working could give you the courage and confidence to talk the person into giving it back. it can serve to change ones mental attitude towards a situation and cause them to act in a way congruent to their particular needs. or perhaps, it could cause the person who took the item to feel guilt and return the item of his/her own accord. or perhaps if you knew where it was, you could do something that could help you find the key to said lock-box. such a working would cause either the item to be drawn to you, or you drawn to the item. that's basically how prayer works, but prayer outwardly is relying on some external being to do your bidding. and while witches do call on deity to aide their magick, they dont always. I, more often than not would rely on the energy within me (personal power). it's not all just a bunch of hocus-pocus. much of the ritual, incantations, etc involved is there for psychological reasons. to put one in the proper frame of mind, instill a positive attitude, to give you a sense of power it might take to overcome a situation. btw, sorry so late in replying! Ah, I figured as much (and don't worry about being late, there's a reason this is a message board and not a chat). So does that mean it changes the situation if you don't know who took said item? I know I'm playing Devil's Advocate here, but I'm curious as to just how far magick can be taken.
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:27 pm
Magick in reality is not what many people believe it to be but it does exist. My ex was actually a Wiccan warlock. Magick is the ability to manipulate the energies in the world through ritual in many cases or through verse in others in order to point those energies towards a singular goal. The energies of magick though cannot be directed toward an unnatural goal as many would believe they can considering they are still bound by the laws of nature as is the rest of reality.
Ritual and verse, as has most likely been mentioned previously are merely a psychological stencil of sorts to draw the energies within us to the surface in a way as to make our beliefs in the magick we are performing reach the levels that make it possible. Many do not realize that Magick, much like Psychokinesis and other Psychic abilities are often restricted or even cut off by disbelief. When one does not beliefe the power of the magick we attempt to use becomes dampened if not completely cut off from us.
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:48 pm
dboyzero Calypsophia well, there's a lot of psychology to magick, so if it was lets say stolen, and you knew who took it, one's working could give you the courage and confidence to talk the person into giving it back. it can serve to change ones mental attitude towards a situation and cause them to act in a way congruent to their particular needs. or perhaps, it could cause the person who took the item to feel guilt and return the item of his/her own accord. or perhaps if you knew where it was, you could do something that could help you find the key to said lock-box. such a working would cause either the item to be drawn to you, or you drawn to the item. that's basically how prayer works, but prayer outwardly is relying on some external being to do your bidding. and while witches do call on deity to aide their magick, they dont always. I, more often than not would rely on the energy within me (personal power). it's not all just a bunch of hocus-pocus. much of the ritual, incantations, etc involved is there for psychological reasons. to put one in the proper frame of mind, instill a positive attitude, to give you a sense of power it might take to overcome a situation. btw, sorry so late in replying! Ah, I figured as much (and don't worry about being late, there's a reason this is a message board and not a chat). So does that mean it changes the situation if you don't know who took said item? I know I'm playing Devil's Advocate here, but I'm curious as to just how far magick can be taken. well, different circumstances do tend to produce different aspects in situations, and that goes for more than just magickal issues. that's just everyday life. it might change the particulars of the spell perhaps, with more emphasis on the person if i knew who the person was but honestly, if the whole thing was a purposeful set up as a test I dont believe it would work because true need wouldnt be there. need in this case, as in strong desire. the stronger the desire (emotion) the stronger your energy build up will be and the stronger the effect it would have. at least for me this would be true because I'm not particularly interested in proving anything to anyone. smile
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:55 pm
Whysperwind Magick in reality is not what many people believe it to be but it does exist. My ex was actually a Wiccan warlock. Magick is the ability to manipulate the energies in the world through ritual in many cases or through verse in others in order to point those energies towards a singular goal. The energies of magick though cannot be directed toward an unnatural goal as many would believe they can considering they are still bound by the laws of nature as is the rest of reality. Ritual and verse, as has most likely been mentioned previously are merely a psychological stencil of sorts to draw the energies within us to the surface in a way as to make our beliefs in the magick we are performing reach the levels that make it possible. Many do not realize that Magick, much like Psychokinesis and other Psychic abilities are often restricted or even cut off by disbelief. When one does not beliefe the power of the magick we attempt to use becomes dampened if not completely cut off from us. just one comment as an innocent FYI... to call a wiccan (or any kind of witch) a "warlock" is really an insult. it means "deceiver". other than that, so far, you and I are pretty much on the same page. smile
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:48 pm
Calypsophia just one comment as an innocent FYI... to call a wiccan (or any kind of witch) a "warlock" is really an insult. it means "deceiver". other than that, so far, you and I are pretty much on the same page. smile I apologize for insulting but he called himself a warlock, i was merely repeating what he said to me. I was also at a loss for words as to what exactly would be an appropriate term for a male practitioner of Magick. Witch and warlock, or wizard are the only terms I've ever been given.
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:13 am
Calypsophia well, different circumstances do tend to produce different aspects in situations, and that goes for more than just magickal issues. that's just everyday life. it might change the particulars of the spell perhaps, with more emphasis on the person if i knew who the person was but honestly, if the whole thing was a purposeful set up as a test I dont believe it would work because true need wouldnt be there. need in this case, as in strong desire. the stronger the desire (emotion) the stronger your energy build up will be and the stronger the effect it would have. at least for me this would be true because I'm not particularly interested in proving anything to anyone. smile As with all kinds of psychological and social experiments, of course there shouldn't be the knowledge in the subject that they're being tested, as it biases the test results. As far as the subject knows, they simply lost an item of great importance to them, so such a degree that they are willing to use magick as an avenue to regain said item. What my main question is for this hypothetical experiment is this: Is there any level of need or desire great enough to surpass commonly accepted physical laws and spatial dimensions? If you wanted the item strongly enough, is there any magick that you could use that would return it to you from being locked away somewhere wholly unreachable (ie, a safe with no key or at the top of Mt. Everest) or being destroyed completely (in the cases of with or without your knowledge)?
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:19 am
Whysperwind Calypsophia just one comment as an innocent FYI... to call a wiccan (or any kind of witch) a "warlock" is really an insult. it means "deceiver". other than that, so far, you and I are pretty much on the same page. smile I apologize for insulting but he called himself a warlock, i was merely repeating what he said to me. I was also at a loss for words as to what exactly would be an appropriate term for a male practitioner of Magick. Witch and warlock, or wizard are the only terms I've ever been given. no apology necessary, my friend. I was just letting you know for your own knowledge. if he was calling himself a warlock to any who knew better he was embarrassing himself, I'm afraid. a male witch is simply a 'witch'. the term has been applied mostly to women in the past, but truthfully it's genderless in todays society. no worries smile
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