The start of the rest of your life(full) Update

[glitterboypilot]

Then again all root beer is addictive.

I know that Wizards had already made a bayonet for crossbows, I am just trying to remember their stats. I thought that they was dagger-like items, but I can't seem to remember....

Quote:

Crossbow bayonet, knife 2 gp 1 lb.
Crossbow bayonet, sword 4 gp 2 lb.
Hand crossbow blade 4 gp 1/2 lb.

Crossbow Bayonet: Bayonets easily fit onto light or
heavy crossbows, attaching to the stock below where the
bolt fires. Crossbow bayonets come in two kinds: knife and
sword. A knife bayonet attached to a crossbow functions as
a shortspear, while a sword bayonet attached to a crossbow
is treated as a spear. A crossbow with an attached bayonet
cannot be thrown as a true spear can be, though it can be
set against a charge.
A hand crossbow is too small to accept a bayonet (but
see hand crossbow blade, below).

Hand Crossbow Blade: Adding a short blade to the
front of a hand crossbow allows you to defend yourself in
melee combat without having to draw a different weapon.
The blade functions as a dagger.

...I just can't remember, It is in the Complete Scoundrel... Oh well, take the small incert from that very book on bayonets for the item. And we will say that it can be used for a gun too  

[Raganui Minamoto]

I'm still around, waiting for something important to happen.  

[MT the Clown]

There is a bladed crossbow in DR mag. The blade is treated as a dagger.

That quote is accurate, but it should be mentioned that attacking with a bayonet incurs a -2 penalty. Adding or removing a bayonet is a move action.

Though I feel it should be mentioned that the crossbow and subsequently anything that has a bayonet attachment needs to be modified to do so.  

[Slave Xaccheus]

Only problem here is a gun being mounted with a bayonet, not a crossbow. Grevus and I have been talking, also. Is it alright if we use a musket, also using the stats for the rifle butt as a weapon? Then, we've pretty much got a double weapon using the bayonet we listed, which would probably lead to a new style of gun fighting.  

[gamingguru]

You can always use the rifle but as a weapon but it is considered an improvised weapon.  

[Slave Xaccheus]

gamingguru

You can always use the rifle but as a weapon but it is considered an improvised weapon.

Eh? Dude, seriously? I mean, in all the FPS, war movies, and basically anything using a gun at all I've seen, Rifle Stocks as weapons were pretty much part of the program. It's a solid, tough piece of equipment that's part of an even deadlier weapon. How is any part of this improvised?  

[MT the Clown]

Eternality_Cannon

gamingguru

You can always use the rifle but as a weapon but it is considered an improvised weapon.

Eh? Dude, seriously? I mean, in all the FPS, war movies, and basically anything using a gun at all I've seen, Rifle Stocks as weapons were pretty much part of the program. It's a solid, tough piece of equipment that's part of an even deadlier weapon. How is any part of this improvised?

Sorry to break it to you, but those are rarely, if ever accurate. Not all guns are meant to be used like that anyways, my example is the original US Army M16A1, considered by many to be the worst rifle ever made. It was never meant to see melee. The stock would shatter even with a bayonet. For veterans it takes long hours of training to swing even the AK-47 properly to not break it. Even then bayonet or butt strike is still awkward at best.  

[Disciple of Sakura]

Yeah, it makes sense to me. An improvised weapon is anything that was not meant to be used as a weapon being used as such. Rifles are meant to be fired, not used as clubs.

Likewise, you can't bludgeon people with the stick end of a flail without using it as an improvised weapon.  

[MT the Clown]

Disciple of Sakura

...bludgeon people with the stick end of a flail...

Wait. What? Have you tried to... Why would you want to pummel anyone with the handle of a flail when you have a free floating weight to crush heads with?


Then again, free-floating weight is bloody hard to control mid-swing and after contact... but still! Why?  

[Slave Xaccheus]

The viking spears could use the haft to beat the crud out of you. That's actually how disputes were settled.

A knight could step in with his blade and whack you in the face with the pommel (that's where "pummel" comes from.) It hurt like hell, too.

A shield was usually for defense, yet even in the game, you can knock someone on their a** with it.

Gauntlets and other protective gloves are also usually for defense, but have you ever seen someone get punched at a hockey game with the gloves on? That guy is out before he hits the ground.

Once a pirate fired his Flintlock, he'd spin it around, and bludgeon the guy he was fighting to death with the handle.

Punching someone when you're wielding a dagger, or basically anything else with a handle built to be gripped completely by the hand adds force to the blow and deals more damage. That's how Brass Knuckles are built aside from the rings.


See? This stuff is a different use for a weapon, but it works.  

[Drugged Lolli]

Eternality_Cannon

The viking spears could use the haft to beat the crud out of you. That's actually how disputes were settled.

A knight could step in with his blade and whack you in the face with the pommel (that's where "pummel" comes from.) It hurt like hell, too.

A shield was usually for defense, yet even in the game, you can knock someone on their a** with it.

Gauntlets and other protective gloves are also usually for defense, but have you ever seen someone get punched at a hockey game with the gloves on? That guy is out before he hits the ground.

Once a pirate fired his Flintlock, he'd spin it around, and bludgeon the guy he was fighting to death with the handle.

Punching someone when you're wielding a dagger, or basically anything else with a handle built to be gripped completely by the hand adds force to the blow and deals more damage. That's how Brass Knuckles are built aside from the rings.


See? This stuff is a different use for a weapon, but it works.

Viking Spear Haft: It's just a quarterstaff with a point on one end. Not improvised.

Sword Pommel and Dagger punching: You're punching the person while holding your weapon. Nothing special, certainly not improvised.

Gauntlet: You're punching someone while your hand is covered in metal. Once again, nothing special or improvised.

Shield bashing: Standard training for using a shield. Not improvised.

Flintlock pistol butt: He's probably done it a lot and has exotic proficiency in it. Otherwise it'd be an improvised club. Plus, unless it's properly build, has a chance of ruining the pistol.

 

[MT the Clown]

Eternality_Cannon

The viking spears could use the haft to beat the crud out of you. That's actually how disputes were settled.

A knight could step in with his blade and whack you in the face with the pommel (that's where "pummel" comes from.) It hurt like hell, too.

A shield was usually for defense, yet even in the game, you can knock someone on their a** with it.

Gauntlets and other protective gloves are also usually for defense, but have you ever seen someone get punched at a hockey game with the gloves on? That guy is out before he hits the ground.

Once a pirate fired his Flintlock, he'd spin it around, and bludgeon the guy he was fighting to death with the handle.

Punching someone when you're wielding a dagger, or basically anything else with a handle built to be gripped completely by the hand adds force to the blow and deals more damage. That's how Brass Knuckles are built aside from the rings.


See? This stuff is a different use for a weapon, but it works.

I've seen Deadliest Warrior too. Despite some arguable points from that show, your point about the pistol is not incorrect, but pistol-whipping someone with the butt of a SOLID WOODEN HANDLE. Even then it wasn't meant for that purpose. The reason it was used like that was because the pirate was being rushed, and with no time to draw a new weapon or make a butt-long reload, he would swing what was at hand. I don't know why you're so adamant about this, but you're being very ungrateful. The DM has gone so far as to allowed you a flintlock instead of a matchlock. So stop insisting that what you want is right. The way you're playing is for the sake of achievement, not for the enjoyment.  

[Slave Xaccheus]

... Sorry. I just get carried away some times. Okay, so the rifle butt's improvised, big whoop, it still deals damage. Is it a -4 penalty on attack rolls or damage rolls? I've forgotten which, and I can't remember which book it's in.  

[Jacior]

While this arguement has been very entertaining to watch, (and I do mean very!), I am slightly more interested (at this second), in who made the final cut for this, (campaign, adventure, thread?).

((and it's a -4 to attack, not damage mrgreen ))  

[Grevus]

Personally I find you lot absurdly knit picky, and I'm the one with a boss who's a**l as hell and his wife, who's twice as bad!

My patience is pretty god but this has been trying, for lack of a better word.