Plainsfox
All I want to do is to shove Zanzen into Machiko. I am using the rules I am being told to use to attempt to do this action. Since rolling damage will keep it a legal maneuver, I'll do that. I'm sorry for the confusion.
Knockdown and Takedown are the same maneuver, requiring the same raises. Knockdown does damage if it hits. Takedown ignores armor, but does no damage if it hits.
To move someone in any direction but "down", it needs to be via Jiujutsu, and no other way.
During the discussion, I thought you still wanted to do the
Knockdown Takedown, despite the lack of Jiujutsu, so I was discussing with you how to do that using your chain weapon. If the whole point of the maneuver was to get Zanzen and Machiko closer to one another, it is kind of impossible for you without the use of the void points you've already spent.
As such, if you do want to redo your turn, you can. Sorry for the misunderstanding.