I may not be of any religion-

[divineseraph]

Here is my thught- All three religions are one. This is through the evidence that they all worship YHWH, they all believe in Moses, Abraham and Jesus, they all follow similar rules and laws... they even have the same angel Gabriel.

Admittedly, there are many zealots in all denominations and all of the three religions. the muslims of Al Queda, the Jews of Palestine and the Christians of America (only the combatant ones in each sect, of course)

In fact, the politics almost outweigh the religion, and truth is very hard to find in all the mess. Basically, we have igh-powered figureheads telling us "Believe X and hate Y or else you aren't really part of Z"- When in reality, they only say this because a war against Y makes money for the spokesman of Z, and X is simply a cover-up for that goal.

Anyway, on to god himself.

I don't see Jesus as the absolute and only way. I know it is said that he is the only way... However... could it not mean his teaching? His meaning? not his physical being?

Have you ever seen anything that you thought would be an interest to your dog? So you point at it, hoping your dog will look? But the dumb thing just looks at your finger, like "Oh boy! Master's hand! Thanks for showing me!"
That's my point exactly. Maybe Jesus is this celestial figner, and while we're all staring at it, we're missing the point- follow his message, not HIM in person.

I don't really see God as a person who sits in a cloud and watches us individually.

I see him as a starry night sky, a nebula, an algorithm with no end, a perfect machine of gears and cogs, a system of judgement and wisdom, rather than a human male in his late 70's.

I see God as flawless, and his system as flawless. I see God as water.

Hydrogen- the needed element of acids, which can disolve metal.
Hydroxide, the needed compund in bases, which can also disolve metal.

When combined at their purest form, they create water. Which is perfectly neutral. From chaos and destruction on either end, there is perfection, and the base of life on earth.

From the Alpha and the Omega comes life. How perfect, what a lovely cameo appearance He makes. And knowledge, the human equalizer, allows us to unravel this fact.

When ou are in chemistry, think in wonder as your hand does not pass through your desk, but does so mercifully through the air that supports your lungs. That mechanism is God.  

[grani4fam1]

Did you read any writings of Judaism, Christianity or Islam (the Bible and the Koran) to come up with this? Anyone can say what they believe is true, but if there is nothing to back it up, i.e., the writings of the belief system, it's invalid. Where do you get this belief system from? What worldview do you claim as your own? Both the Koran and the Bible are the source literature for these religions, and they take a PRO-religion stance. The world, the media, the government and the public schools are NOT the source to understand these things. They are ANTI-religion and are in an OPPOSITE worldview stance. If you want to propose your belief system to others, you should quote sources, not just feelings or ideas you've come up with while thinking about the universe. Yes, the universe is a source of truth, but it is not the only source. Your observations about the universe are nice, but more than that is necessary to draw conclusions about God. Why not consider what He wrote and said about Himself? He went to the trouble to do it, so why not give it a go? Seeking truth means you can look at all the information, not just a part of it. After you have looked and processed all the truth you have found for yourself, you can present it to others.  

[chatula]

This is a forum for discussion between Jews and Christians. How did Islam and support for the Tri-Unification Religion get in here?  

[divineseraph]

Because they are us, we are one.

And I do use sources-

For example, the angel Gabriel appears in Christianity and Islam, it is the angel who tells Mary about Jesus and Mohammed that he is a prophet.

Mohammed was a christian, by the way, while he was meditating, when the Angel Gabriel came and told him to spread the word of the One God.

There is one and only one. The bible is words- It is divine in it's message, in it's instructions to mankind. But it was also written by man in a time in which things were different, moral views and laws were different.

For example- I hope none of you here have eaten shrimp or pork recently... If you have, you're ******** and are going to hell.

The bible condones slavery, shouldn't you?

And this isn't Anti-God or Anti-bible, or any of that. It's simply stating- some of the things from those time periods that were perfectly acceptable are no longer that way.

More or less, I'm saying that the bible is old, written and translated over may many times. Basically, it's outdated. But from the similarities and the similar roots, it is clear that muslims worship the same God we do, YHWH, the one God.  

[Bezant]

divineseraph

Because they are us, we are one.

Then the natural state of "one" is conflict. Endless, bitter conflict.


For example- I hope none of you here have eaten shrimp or pork recently... If you have, you're *** and are going to hell.


Not if you're forgiven. wink


The bible condones slavery, shouldn't you?

Slavery was recognized as an unavoidable, sad truth. But Christianity freed the slaves. In the Mohammedan countries like the Sudan, slavery is still practiced.

divineseraph

And this isn't Anti-God or Anti-bible, or any of that. It's simply stating- some of the things from those time periods that were perfectly acceptable are no longer that way.

More or less, I'm saying that the bible is old, written and translated over may many times. Basically, it's outdated. But from the similarities and the similar roots, it is clear that Muslims worship the same God we do, YHWH, the one God.

Several of the ceremonies of worshipping Allah are based on the moon god's cult. The moon god had many names, one of which was al-ilah, ie The God. These are pre-Islamic pagan rituals.

From http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

Quote:

The pagan Arabs worshipped the Moon-god Allah by praying toward Mecca several times a day; making a pilgrimage to Mecca; running around the temple of the Moon-god called the Kabah; kissing the black stone; killing an animal in sacrifice to the Moon-god; throwing stones at the devil; fasting for the month which begins and ends with the crescent moon; giving alms to the poor, etc.

The Muslim's claim that Allah is the God of the Bible and that Islam arose from the religion of the prophets and apostles is refuted by solid, overwhelming archaeological evidence. Islam is nothing more than a revival of the ancient Moon-god cult. It has taken the symbols, the rites, the ceremonies, and even the name of its god from the ancient pagan religion of the Moon-god. As such, it is sheer idolatry and must be rejected by all those who follow the Torah and Gospel.

Mohammed was not a Christian. From where do you get this information? It is true that most of the areas he conquered were full of pagans and Christians. Christian nations were conquered by Islamic forces, even back then. Nothing has changed.

From the outside, to a atheist, perhaps all people of faith look the same, and so it is only fitting to them that all religions should be crammed into one, or subdivide them further and say "these are the Eastern religions, these are the Abrahamic religions, and these are the native religions (like Wicca and shamanism)".
But it's not quite that cut and dried XD  

[divineseraph]

Pagan rituals intertwined into a religion?

Should I mention Christmas?

The tradition of the tree, placing candels on it- a pagan tradition.

The time of year, a pagan feast-time. It was for the sake of convenience, Jesus's birthday. Since the tradition happened at the same time, it was esier to convert pagans to Christianity.

The flood of Noah is mentioned in many religions which occured before christianity. Not Noah specifically, but a massive flood.

And Allah means One God, it is not a name, but a title.

And if forgiveness is all there is... How come muslims cannot be forgiven, if they worship the very same God? For their muslim upbringing they will be punished for eternity, even though they see the same God and follow the same rules?

As for conflict- that is a very bleak outlook. And again, that idea that we CANNOT work together makes it so. The idea is propogated, and so it is hard to make connections with these people who are equally good and holy. Simply writing them off as "unwilling" is easy. And if both sides do this, there can be no middle ground.

And sad truth? I thought the bible and politics were two seperate things? According to you, they are opposites.

So the bible should state what is right, regardless of the laws at the time.
If they swayed for slavery, then either slavery is indeed righteous, or the bible DOES have influence from politics.  

[grani4fam1]

divineseraph

Because they are us, we are one.

Where in the Bible or Koran does it say this, that Islam, Christianity and Judaism are one?

divineseraph

And I do use sources-

Then quote a source from the Bible, or the Koran or a website, please. Use chapter and verse, or url. You are still saying things without supporting them from a source that we can look up and evaluate for ourselves. Here is a link for looking up verses in the Bible: www.blueletterbible.org

divineseraph

For example, the angel Gabriel appears in Christianity and Islam, it is the angel who tells Mary about Jesus and Mohammed that he is a prophet.

I know where it talks about Gabriel in the Bible (Luke 1:26), but quote the Koran, please. I found the verse in the Koran that mentions "Gibreel" in 97.4: "The angels and Gibreel descend in it by the permission of their Lord for every affair." Here is a link where you can look up verses in the Koran: http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/

divineseraph

Mohammed was a christian, by the way, while he was meditating, when the Angel Gabriel came and told him to spread the word of the One God.

Chapter and verse, or url, please. Here is a quote from an apologetics website. This is pretty much where Christians stand on Islam vs. Christianity:

Quote:

IS ISLAM ANOTHER GOSPEL?
Islam teaches that God is so far above man in every way that he is virtually unknowable. He will send individuals to Paradise or Hell as he chooses.

Islam teaches that Jesus was a messenger of God, not the son of God. Muslims deny the He is Almighty God come in the flesh. (John 1:1-14, I John 4:1,2). They deny that He is divine. (Col 2:9) They deny that He died on the Cross for our sins (Most believe the Judas died in his place). They deny that He rose from the dead. (Matt 26: 28, John 19:20) They deny that He is the final, conclusive revelation of God. (Heb. 1: 1-2)

IS ALLAH ANOTHER GOD?
Is this stone idol the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? Just because Mohammed said so doesn't make it so! Allah chose Hagar and her son, Ismael for his covenant. The God of the Bible chose Abraham's other son, Isaac, as heir to His covenant. (Gen 21: 12, 22:2-18 )

Allah is an impersonal being, impossible to approach or comprehend. The Bible's God befriends men like Abraham (Is. 41:8 ) and talks with them (Gen 18:23ff)! He loved us so much He sent His only begotten Son to die for us! (John 3:16)

Allah is a god of fear and terrorism that commands destruction upon those who refuse to convert to Islam. The Bible's God delights to show His boundless mercy. His gospel is the "Good News" of peace and forgiveness.

Allah requires total obedience to Islam and weighs the works of people. Allah and the Koran relegate Jesus to just the last prophet before Mohammed, below his authority. Jesus was not the Way, and could only point the way to Mohammed. The Bible's God can only be reached through Jesus Christ and trust in Him is the only way to Heaven. (John 14:6).

Allah required the works of Mohammed to complete his words of judgment to man. The God Of The Bible sent His son who did the finished work of grace for man. (John 19:30)

In the light of Allah's actual origin and his radical difference from the God of the Bible, we must conclude that Allah is not God. Nor is the name, Allah, a generic MidEast name for God, as even many Christians think. Allah is the name of a false god who can not save anyone from anything. Rather, through his false prophet, Mohammed, he continues to lead hundreds of millions into eternal darkness.

by Ed Decker from http://www.saintsalive.com/general/islam.htm

divineseraph

There is one and only one. The bible is words- It is divine in it's message, in it's instructions to mankind. But it was also written by man in a time in which things were different, moral views and laws were different.

If it is divine, then it's not just from man but from G-d. Here's what He says about the Bible: He puts His Word in the mouth of His people (Isaiah 51:16), His Word does what it is sent to do (Isaiah 55:11), and it stands forever (Isaiah 40:8 ).

divineseraph

For example- I hope none of you here have eaten shrimp or pork recently... If you have, you're ******** and are going to hell.

Personally, I do keep the laws of Kashrut as best as a Gentile Christian can. A great website for looking up clean and unclean foods in today's Gentile grocery stores: http://www.theisraelofgodrc.com/CUPL.html

If you go to Leviticus 11:46-47 (which is in the chapter of Leviticus about laws of Kashrut), you will see that this made Israel unclean, not damned to hell. The laws of Torah are meant for making Israel and those joined to her (through Messiah) clean (sanctified, holy, set apart) for entering the Tabernacle or Temple to fellowship with G-d. If we believe in Yeshua as Messiah, we are clean (sanctified, set apart, acceptable) to enter the presence of G-d in heaven(Hebrews 10:10). That doesn't mean we don't need to eat kosher now, but we're not going to hell if we make a mistake. I think of eating kosher as practice for the millenium of Messiah.

divineseraph

The bible condones slavery, shouldn't you?

I defer to Cherry Sodah and what she said. The Bible says in several places as here in Exodus 21:2, "If you buy a Hebrew slave...." That was done because there were times when Hebrews had to sell themselves to pay off a debt. Paul encouraged people not to worry about being a slave, but to become a free man if they could (1 Corinthians 7:20-22). This all just points to the fact that people couldn't help being involved in slavery sometimes.

divineseraph

And this isn't Anti-God or Anti-bible, or any of that. It's simply stating- some of the things from those time periods that were perfectly acceptable are no longer that way.

This is true. I'll agree that some of the things in those time periods are unacceptable or not customary now.

divineseraph

More or less, I'm saying that the bible is old, written and translated over may many times. Basically, it's outdated. But from the similarities and the similar roots, it is clear that muslims worship the same God we do, YHWH, the one God.

What you say about translation is partly true. Some minor things have been mistranslated or edited according to what political or religious doctrine they were trying to support. However, a great deal of care has been shown over the millennia to painstakingly handcopy the scripture back when that was the only way to make copies. And, the basic message of the gospel of Yeshua the Messiah hasn't been altered over the last 20 centuries. There are still plenty of original manuscripts around to verify this if you can read Hebrew or Greek. If the originals are there, we can go back and read them in those languages and verify the translation.

However, as for what you say about Muslims worshipping the same G-d we do, YHWH, you must not dismiss the web info Cherry Sodah gave in her quote above from http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm.  

[divineseraph]

This is simply a coincidence, used by that clearly biased source in order to further deny the connections between islam and christianity.

Allah, again, means ONE GOD.

Christians and jews who speak arabic refer to God as YHWH. It is simply a term, a position, not a name.

Also, there is a source in here which says that the Allah which muslims use is the same Allah that the arabic jews use. And since christians worship the sam God as the jews...

I believe I have check and mate on this one. Yet again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah - This is the fact on Allah, where the name comes from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam And this shows that muslims worship the same God as Jews and Christians, and also helps clear up the rumors of muslim militance.

Although muslims have taken part in many wars, so have christians. In the same way, no religion is bloodthirsty. Jihad is actually meant to be spiritual enlightenment. However, it is twisted by militants who are greedy for power and money. The same way the Hindu sign of peace was corrupted by Nazis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika  

[grani4fam1]

Thanks for the websites. I've checked them out.

divineseraph

This is simply a coincidence, used by that clearly biased source in order to further deny the connections between islam and christianity.

One could say the same thing about any website. There will always be a bias, no matter the source. The websites you provided are biased towards a secular humanistic worldview, whereas mine is biased towards a Judeo-Christian worldview. Unavoidable.

divineseraph

Christians and jews who speak arabic refer to God as YHWH. It is simply a term, a position, not a name.

Not true. The Hebrew name, YHWH, means "I AM", not ONE GOD. Look in a Hebrew dictionary, concordance or interlinear Bible. Also, G-d has many names in the Bible, including Elohim, which means Judge and Creator.

divineseraph

Also, there is a source in here which says that the Allah which muslims use is the same Allah that the arabic jews use. And since christians worship the sam God as the jews...

Ask any religious Jew, and they'll tell you they do NOT worship Allah. Do the same with Christians who believe in Yeshua and really know their Bible.

From your source, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam :

Quote:

According to F. E. Peters, "The Qur'an insists, Muslims believe, and historians affirm that Muhammad and his followers worship the same God as the Jews.[Qur'an 29:46] The Quran's Allah is the same Creator God who covenanted with Abraham". Peters states that the Qur'an portrays Allah as both more powerful and more remote than Yahweh, and as a universal deity, unlike Yahweh who closely follows Israelites.[7]

What you are sharing is a Muslim perception not held by the majority of Jews or Christians.

divineseraph

Although muslims have taken part in many wars, so have christians. In the same way, no religion is bloodthirsty. Jihad is actually meant to be spiritual enlightenment. However, it is twisted by militants who are greedy for power and money..

We all know Christians have made their mistakes, as you keep saying. However, Jihad means "HOLY WAR", not enlightenment. That is common knowledge. To quote one of your selections from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam :

Quote:

Jihad means "to strive or struggle," and is considered the "sixth pillar of Islam" by a minority of Muslim authorities.[53] Within Islamic jurisprudence, jihad is usually taken to mean military exertion against non-Muslim combatants in the defense or expansion of the Islamic state, the ultimate purpose of which is to establish the universal domination of Islam. Jihad, the only form of warfare permissible in Islamic law, may be declared against non-Muslims who refuse to convert to Islam or submit to the Islamic rule.[54] Jihad is perpetual in nature; in theory, there can be no permanent peace with non-Muslim states, only truces which can be repudiated when circumstances become favorable for the resumption of hostilities. It ceases when Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians submit to the authority of Islam and agree to pay the jizya (a poll tax) and kharaj (a land tax), and when polytheists convert to Islam. Those who do not accept these terms may be enslaved or killed.[54]

 

[divineseraph]

Dude... Did you listen to my point at all?

Serioiusly. Allah is not a different God. Same guy, different name.

God, Dios, Allah, YHWH- They are all the same guy, they all mean the same thing.

Allah =/= Different God.  

[chatula]

Dude - did you get her point? rolleyes  

[grani4fam1]

divineseraph

Dude... Did you listen to my point at all?

Serioiusly. Allah is not a different God. Same guy, different name.

God, Dios, Allah, YHWH- They are all the same guy, they all mean the same thing.

Allah =/= Different God.

Just because you gave me those references to allah in wikipedia, doesn't mean I have to concede your point, or that you gave irrefutable proof. You have to go back to the Hebrew in the Bible to know what YHWH means, as well as what the Jewish Sages say about it. What the Muslims believe or say or do is irrelevant. Islam hasn't been around as long as Judaism. They have their opinion, they are outsiders, and they've tried to rewrite Judaism and Christianity according to their ideas. Their goal is world domination in every way and to wipe out every other religion. Why wouldn't they claim that they are one with Judaism and Christianity to do so? Won't it be fun when they come to our doors telling us we have to believe what they say and submit to their tenets or we'll be shot, raped and/or beheaded? That's what's coming if this tri-unification religion gains momentum. Muslims who are conquering a place won't take no for an answer. It's convert or else. If you want more evidence on that, go to Voice of the Martyrs' website and check out what they've done in Indonesia from eyewitnesses. It's happening in our day.  

[divineseraph]

Listen to your idiocy...

Islam is the newest, just as christianity was new when judaism was old.

Newness means nothing. Tradition means nothing if it is wrong.

And ALL muslims hate ALL jews and christians? Hm, I did not know this. So, what do you propose we do to stop this insideous force?

They are not outsiders because they are one with us. Unless you were born in the time of the original Jews, you cannot claim any more knowledge than they can, for you have not experienced more than they have in the ways of religion and how they were formed.

And Triunificationsim is what the name implies- a UNIFICATION of the religions, each religion respecting and understanding the others as BRETHREN- no infidels, no blasphemers, no hatred simply because someone worships the same God but in a different way. It is not domination or control by any one religion, but simply getting word out that hey, guess what- NONE of us are infidels, none of us are all wrong, and none of us deserve to die simply for our prefered way of seeing the same God.  

[grani4fam1]

Repeating yourself 50 times and insulting me doesn't make what you say true. In logical debate, that's called "Snowballing" and "Shoot the Messenger."