Corset Question

[Naito_Mitsukai]

*I moved this from the garb thread! xd it didn't really belong there*


I was wondering - does anyone have any solid evidence of corset use pre-renaissance?

I have some - but I'm not sure how solid it is.


'Medieval Costume and Fashion' by Herbert Norris
Speaks of corseting, and even front-lacing corseting around the 1100's
and reffers to this picture

The bottom left-hand side - is supposed to be a figure of the devil.
" 'Her waist was so fine your hands could have girdled her.'
From an old French love song of the twelfth century." (quoted from 'Medieval Costume and Fashion' by Herbert Norris)

There's some more infromation in the book on this, but not much.

And I just wanted to know if anyone else had any evidence - because in my little shire there's one or two people who say "teeeeeeechnecally corests aren't period" etc etc (always in a way that makes you feel guilty, but they don't TELL you that you can't wear it) stare

But I wanted to attempt to make a corset like what's drawn in this book *there's a small illistration* And wear it to events. But I hate not being period!! You know?


Any suggestions? (or any suggestions on corset patters - where to find them, what material to use?) Would be much appreciated! heart 3nodding  

[Naito_Mitsukai]

By the way - I'm talking about this kind of corset!



And I already know that the the under-bust version of this kind of corset isn't period (although appears to be a greatly-favoured 'SCA-ism') xd  

[Naito_Mitsukai]

Kittywitch

Naito_Mitsukai

And I already know that the the under-bust version of this kind of corset isn't period (although appears to be a greatly-favoured 'SCA-ism') xd

Actually, according to a class I helped research (a little) the "tits on a tray" bodice is period for late ren. However, it was only worn by the cheap prostitutes.

xd lol that's an interesting name for it I havn't heard before! xd
May I ask where you found that information out? biggrin  

[[Atropa Belladonna]]

Corsets may have been worn in period--but not by women. Corsets (like every other garment ever invented) were worn first by men, as part of armor. Corsets improve posture.

I know men who fight heavies in corsets. But unless you're Elizabethan (which of course is only considered kosher in some kingdoms) you shouldn't be in a corset.  

[Llelwyn]

Corsets are at the least period to the Elizabethan era. Not the outside-of-the-clothes corset, but if you look at a picture of Good Queen Bess, herself, you can see that she's very obviously in a corset.

Link about corset history!

http://mycorset.com/corsethistory.htm  

[TheSteven]

Depends on what your idea of period is. Up here, we go to mid 16th century....ish....

it's specifically the front lace bodices that you're looking for?

if you're looking for something more general:

http://ncnc.essortment.com/historyofcors_rmue.htm

There honestly isn't that much documentation about the front lace bodice, unfortunately. Though it looks like (although not on this page) that there were some front laced ones later (1700s etc.) the late ones had the lacing over top of another rigid front panel, similar to the decorative faux front lace of the early 1500 germans (see, cranach or durer portraits. cranach especially.)

Most of the time, they made an effort to hide the lacings, with a side laced bodice for example, using the corsetry that was underneath as the shaper.  

[Naito_Mitsukai]

[Atropa Belladonna]

Corsets may have been worn in period--but not by women. Corsets (like every other garment ever invented) were worn first by men, as part of armor. Corsets improve posture.

I know men who fight heavies in corsets. But unless you're Elizabethan (which of course is only considered kosher in some kingdoms) you shouldn't be in a corset.

Ah by my book contradicts that! And it reffers to the 'male corset' as a jupe - a tight fitting tunic or later a defensive version of it made of metal or leather was known as "corselet" or "cuirass"

it goes on to say
'The corse worn by women at this time *previous date stated was 1130* consisted of a piece of material or leather(see Vol. I., p.34 for an earlier example); and, according to an illuminated manuscript of this period (Nero, C. IV., British Museum *reffering to that picture I posted*), depricting the devil tight-laced in corsets, it was stiffened with wood of metal, and laced up the front (Fig. 30)'

and to the left ot it is a picture of a corset, similar to the one I'm wearing in the other picture I posted!

So there is some evidence to state that there could be corsets of this kind, in SCA period!! For women!  

[Naito_Mitsukai]

See? These are the exact comments I've gotten from this specific person in my shire!!

But - the book I have
"Medieval Costume and Fashion" - By Herbert Norris
Is a very good book, has descriptions, some small illistrations, and a lot of refferences!! sad

So I'm in a rut! xd I want to believe this book ... but .... I don't want the backlash from others!! xd heart  

[Naito_Mitsukai]

Kittywitch

Naito_Mitsukai

Kittywitch

Naito_Mitsukai

And I already know that the the under-bust version of this kind of corset isn't period (although appears to be a greatly-favoured 'SCA-ism') xd

Actually, according to a class I helped research (a little) the "tits on a tray" bodice is period for late ren. However, it was only worn by the cheap prostitutes.

xd lol that's an interesting name for it I havn't heard before! xd
May I ask where you found that information out? biggrin

I'll try to get in contact with the woman who actually taught the class, to see if I can get at the sources she was using.
I reiterate, however, it is VERY late period, in fact, it is only as period as the normal idea of a pirate. However, there are many varients on the bodice/corset, some of which are much earlier.

Haha, I thought as much - But I'm still very interested!! biggrin heart And if you could get the sources for me it would be VERY VERY MUCH appreciated!! 3nodding heart  

[TheSteven]

'course, you could always cite the 'creative' part of the sca.  

[Naito_Mitsukai]

TheSteven

'course, you could always cite the 'creative' part of the sca.

Yes, of course! But I really want to get down to the bottom of this part of the book I read!! xd maybe make a new-ish discovery!! 3nodding Plus research is ALWAYS good in the SCA! blaugh heart  

[Dema]

OMG please slap whoever said that to you, ok I know a person in the SCA thats a period nazi(as in the clothes not the fabric they're made out of) and she's a gypsy and all she wears is bodices and skirts so please don't even try to say they aren't period cuz Fae would not wear them if they weren't  

[LittleGreenGirl]

Well, corsets are definately period, but I'm still trying to find documentation of corsets and laced bodices that are pre-tudor. Here are some examples of pre 17th century corset use.... of course you can't actually see the corsets themselves, but you can at least see that they're being used underneath. All of these portraits are from between 1508 and 1540. A bit of a limited selection, but at least we can see that they were in use in some way. If I find some other styles, I'll post them later.