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 Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:15 pm
No, this is not another "who would win" thread.
Okayshk.
In Redwall, the hieght from tallest to smallest appears to be:
Badgers
Otters
Hares
Squirrels
Hedgehogs, moles, voles and mice
Shrews
In reality, the list goes:
Otters
Badgers
Hares
Squirrels
Hedgehogs
Moles
Mice
Shrews
Why?
And also, why is it that badgers eat mice and stay good, but rats aren't? If it is a pest question, aren't mice considered pests too?
So... discuss in this thread, if you wish.
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Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:32 pm
Because badgers have this connotation of being stolid and dependable. (Because they're big and kind of cute.) But rats are just gross, while mice are also kind of cute. smile Rats are uglier and scarier than mice.
(Anyway: BADGERS EAT MICE!!! O.O)
/random post
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Jen the Quiet Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:28 pm
Hmm... I wonder what the defining line is for who get's to be vermin and who's a good beast.
I think ermines are cute. How comes they are evil? They take down prey waaaay bigger than them making them couragous(or just smart), but badgers would be seen as bullies, seeing as they prey upon those smaller than they...
But seeing as they destroy hordes of rats with thier bloodrath, they would need mass killing skills to get food for themselves.
Wait... what?
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Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:51 am
I think it plays down to a lot of stereotypes and as Jen said, connotations :3
If you reach back to the very first book, you can see it a lot more perhaps, the idea of small, defenseless mice, the grumpy yet motherly badger, a sinister snake, villainous rats, etc, etc
It plays a lot on roles of animals we've seen time and time over :3
And who calls what's vermin and what's not?
Mr Jacques of course! ^^
(Although we seem to stretch that a lil in our RPs... a bit XD)
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Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:17 pm
I always get annoyed at the racist-ness of the redwall series... how Veil grows up in Redwall and is considered bad, and Deyna/Tagg grows up a Juska and is a goodie (one of my faves, actually)
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Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:21 pm
Well, Jacques uses species to stereotype. To be fair, Veil is pretty much bad, and Deyna is good. Also, he does make good vermin and bad "good" characters at times.
In the case of Veil, he does some terrible things at Redwall, and if Redwallers were wary of him to begin with, that certainly didn't help. You'd have to earn trust.
And Deyna's case, he was clobbered over the head and trapped in a room of some sort before he was trusted.
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Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:04 pm
Not necessarily. Notice: Skipper decided he (Deyna) was worth saving.
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Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:17 pm
Oh? I'll have to go back and look at that. It's been awhile since I've read it.
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Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:16 am
Haha. finished reading it yesterday. But another thing (yes, from Taggerung): Nimbalo was brought up VERY badly, worse than Veil. Then, he's good. Yeah, he's a compulsive liar. But he's still a goodie.
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:49 am
I dunno why the heights changed, but it does seem like the badgers should be bigger with how they act and do things. They always seem to be stronger and ... stuff o.0
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:57 pm
I think badgers are bigger than otters because they're considerably heavier and seen as more powerful. The height thing adds to their feeling of power and stuff. It's one of those things that I understand but can't explain. I hate it when that happens. Oh, good/evil crossover- Gingivere in Mossflower (Tsarmina's brother). I'm reading all the Redwall books at my house, the number of which doesn't top 10 cry .
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Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:35 am
Welshk, the thing with wildcats is you get a little bit of both; there are some bad kitties and some good ones, and most recognise honor and courage (I don't like high Rhulain for this reason: Wildcats are A: More evil than the other wildcats of redwall B: Either acknowledge the presence of humans in the Redwall world or C: Just spontaneously spawned on the island) and there are more than two good kitties. Gingivere, Sandingom (who probably had nice kitty family, but we don't know) and Gingivere Squire. The warlord brothers (If you didn't get this connection, go reread Lord Brocktree) Verdauga and Ungat Trunn both acknowledge bravery. Wot wot?
So, are kitties vermin?
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Jen the Quiet Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:37 pm
I personally hesitate to apply the word "vermin" to something as big as a cat.
smile But I think I'd tend to group them with the bad guys. In Redwall, the mice's first thought is to fear the cat, not approach it as a potential ally. (But then again, Redwall is the book that sticks closest to the natural relationships between and among the animals as far as that goes. They fear the cat, the owl, and the snake because they'll EAT them, not because they'll enslave them.)
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:15 am
I think vermin is actually a clssification of specific types of small rodents. Rabbits and capybara are too big to make the list (Side Note- it would be awesome to have a capybara in Redwall, but they'd have to be shrunk down a bit). I think mice actually qualify as vermin, but they're so vulnerable that they're good in Redwall.
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:28 am
Ziftam07 I think vermin is actually a clssification of specific types of small rodents. Rabbits and capybara are too big to make the list (Side Note- it would be awesome to have a capybara in Redwall, but they'd have to be shrunk down a bit). I think mice actually qualify as vermin, but they're so vulnerable that they're good in Redwall. Mice and rats are in the same branch of rodent classification. "Vermin" is another word for pest.
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