Living together before marriage

[PSM Guild Mule]

So, question time again.

What are your opinions of living together before marriage?
(please note, this includes trying to abstain from sex, and probably being engaged whilst doing so as well. Imaging the ideal situation. Not just boyfriend and girldriend).

So, basically, finding out if your relationship would work out if staying in the some house, invading each other's personal space etc. Leaving the toilet seat up or down ...

 

[PSM Guild Mule]

I personally don't see anything wrong with it.
I think it's a great way to see if you are truly compatible with one another.
I live with my boyfriend, we have intentions on getting married and all that jazz.
As long as you are in a very committed relationship that you want to make work and go places then i think it is ok.

doing it just because is a no, and doing it with someone you just met is a no.

 

[Aquatic_blue]

I have heard churches say that it is "sexually immoral" to just "live with someone". However, there are many opinions on this matter and The Holy Bible doesn't 100% say, "You can't live together before marriage."

Personally, I do believe in marriage of the heart - when two people are with each other so long it is that they are married by common law. I mean, back in Biblical times, I don't think they exactly had a marriage certificate that each party and witnesses had to sign because God was their witness and today - we still have God as our witness. However, getting the legal part done (only like $80 max in most states) isn't that bad of a stretch considering an actual wedding is a lot more than that. So in our society - it's better off to make it legal for well, legal purposes and so that it is official.

Personally, I haven't read anything in The Holy Bible that stands against living together before marriage. Honestly, I will say that I'm not for the idea because there can be a lot of temptations involved. These temptations mostly being having pre-marital sex and a couple carrying lust in their hearts for each other without being married. There are some people that live together before marriage and regret it because they did things that they shouldn't.

I have been married for a few years myself, and we never lived with one another before we were married. Instead, we talked to each other about in-depth questions when we were engaged to get married. We would ask each other about our pet peeves, talk about our common and uncommon hobbies, discuss if we want children and how many when we are married, how often we expect sex from each other, how time will be spent with in-laws if any, talk about things that may cause struggles down the line such as deep family issues, etc. We talked about questions that were necessary for this relationship to be on a true foundation and how it would work. There are things that can change after marriage when getting a place and establishing a married life-style and both of you must be prepared for such changes as well as unexpected changes that can come up in the future. Absence makes the heart grow fonder is a phrase that I find most true. As we lived apart and that wedding day grew closer and closer - I had so much excitement that I couldn't wait. Part of the excitement was moving in together after the wedding because we would talk about how we wanted our house arranged, what we needed from the store, and express our excitement of, "I can't believe this is actually happening! We're married!" to each other.

I suppose I feel that living together before marriage might take the spark out of living together for the first time after the wedding because living together isn't something new because it's been done before and is only continuing. After all, every married couple will have their arguments - and sometimes over the dumbest things. Sometimes it will be about getting certain chores done, other times it may be about what brand of cereal you buy from the store, etc. So I suppose I don't see a purpose of living together to see if you're compatible, because you don't see how you react to unexpected life changes, and sometimes it takes a few years when different arguments set in because life changes as it goes along. Arguing isn't always bad - even healthy couples argue from time to time. So I see the whole living together a false sense of comparing that experience to what it will be like after marriage.

You always have to ask yourself, "What if there is that slight chance it doesn't work while we are living together? Then what?" and make sure you are able to leave with a clean slate. Also, "Is this okay to do by God's word?", "If God were to confront me about this - would he say it was okay?", "Did we move in together for the right reasons?"  

[singin4Christ]

I strongly believe that we should not put ourselves in the path of temptation on purpose. Because of this I believe that living together is not necessarily a sin but it is a HORRIBLE idea. Yeah, Joseph and Mary lived together before they were married. It was a part of the culture. The pressure of the time was to *not* sleep together though. The pressure of today is to bop one another like rabbits because people can't accept that something might happen. The reality is that living together is going to increase that pressure and make it harder to abstain.
I do not believe in marriage of the heart. That makes me sound harsh, I know. I believe in the covenant between a man, woman and God. If you take God out of the picture and just shack up and announce that you're married, you lose a lot of the aspects of a godly marriage later. I believe in marriage, whether arranged or love matches. I am currently in a relationship that was arranged by my *cough* darling housemate and my family. He had to go through my father before even meeting me, and I had to be cleared by his parents. Marriage of the heart is not a term that applies to us though. We are in a relationship of the heart. We still lack the third part of the covenant of marriage.
Should those in arranged marriages/courtships live together? Still nope. Nope nope nope nope nope. My boyfriend and I have a hard enough time keeping our paws off one another as it is and I live with his sister (housemate) and he lives with his grandmother. If family doesn't cool our jets, living together is certainly not going to help. Yes, that's me in my situation but that's the experience that I have to go on. So, there's my bit. Might not be much but there you have it.  

[i r i d e s s i c a n c e]

Considering the following:

~My fiance and I will have been together 5 years in a couple weeks.
~We've been engaged since Christmas 2011
~UNLIKE most people nowadays (younger generation) we keep our morals
~We've lived together for about a year. (I had to move out due to chronic sickness so I moved back in with parents while they took care of me).

I want to do it again too since I'm getting better. I personally don't see anything wrong with it. Like I said, we keep our morals. As long as we ignore temptation and are strong, we have nothing to worry about. Yes, generation of today is more loose than the clothes on the runway, but that's THEIR problem. A single couple with morals shouldn't be singled out as wrong when living together as long as their faith is strong. Basically, we shouldn't let one bad apple ruin the bunch. Even last night I was talking with a friend and he said my fiance and I were a "one in a million" couple. That we were so different from everyday people because of our morals even though we're in our younger 20s.

We shouldn't let fear stand in the way of our actions. If we have fear of temptation, we should try to overcome it by standing against it with firm beliefs. If both people in the relationship can agree and stay strong with faith, anything is possible. Like we fight sins daily, living together, temptation, should be no different. Just another obstacle we can conquer.  

[Father Delacroix]

I think all in all the Bible is fairly clear about this.

A couple who is living together is assumed to be sleeping together...that is just the nature of things (socially). Even though living in the same house is not sinful in and of itself, the appearance of sin is there and the Bible tells us to avoid the appearance of evil, to flee from immorality, to not expose ourselves to constant temptations to immorality and not to cause anyone to stumble or be offended.

Ephesians 5:3
But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people.

1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.

1 Thessalonians 5:22
Abstain from all appearance of evil.


As a result, it is not honoring to God for a man and a woman to live together outside of marriage.  

[Aporeia]

Shadowbane_Inquisitor

I think all in all the Bible is fairly clear about this.

A couple who is living together is assumed to be sleeping together...that is just the nature of things (socially). Even though living in the same house is not sinful in and of itself, the appearance of sin is there and the Bible tells us to avoid the appearance of evil, to flee from immorality, to not expose ourselves to constant temptations to immorality and not to cause anyone to stumble or be offended.

Ephesians 5:3
But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people.

1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.

1 Thessalonians 5:22
Abstain from all appearance of evil.


As a result, it is not honoring to God for a man and a woman to live together outside of marriage.

That's a pretty stupid assumption. People can live together without sleeping together. There's several unmarried couples that live together that go so far they don't even kiss.

Also, it's a little silly to say that living in the same house is grounds for sexual temptation, when literally going anywhere private, the car included, is no less so. Dating, to begin with, is just one giant temptation, but we are not a culture that arranges marriages, nor one that even marries without at least 2 years of a bf/gf relationship before anyone says "you're just being rash."

At least a couple that lives together is preparing themselves for married life.  

[Rednal]

In my opinion... I think marriage is a serious commitment. I also think people are flawed and sometimes make mistakes. Living together is a completely different experience from dating someone on the weekend or whenever your schedule can make some free time. It's a way for people to try and see if they really are compatible, if their habits can be tolerated, and so on and so forth. I don't think people should be stopped from learning at least a reasonable amount about each other before making a decision that will affect the rest of their lives; the stigma against divorce is such that sometimes people are encouraged to stay in a marriage that was, frankly, a mistake to have at all.

God is willing to forgive us when we fail. I think the least we can do is also try to forgive each other and give people the information they need to make a fully-informed decision instead of allowing them to mess up and then saying they should suffer for it.


I mean, don't forget that the Bible also encourages people to not marry at all. confused  

[Father Delacroix]

False Dichotomy

That's a pretty stupid assumption. People can live together without sleeping together. There's several unmarried couples that live together that go so far they don't even kiss.

Also, it's a little silly to say that living in the same house is grounds for sexual temptation, when literally going anywhere private, the car included, is no less so. Dating, to begin with, is just one giant temptation, but we are not a culture that arranges marriages, nor one that even marries without at least 2 years of a bf/gf relationship before anyone says "you're just being rash."

At least a couple that lives together is preparing themselves for married life.

You are right...there are some that can live together without sleeping together. However the nature of modern thinking (socially) often goes right back to the couple sleeping together because they live together....which is the appearance of immorality, the appearance of sin and is as such against the Bible's teaching. You might not agree and it might not seem right or fair that a huge portion of the worlds population goes to thinking that way but the fact still remains, people think that way and when many of them are asked it's fairly often they say they expect sexual temptation...it's generally accepted that "those getting married/those who love one another/those engaged" have "passion" for their partner, it's natural and expected.

Again I say as a result, it is not honoring to God for a man and a woman to live together outside of marriage.  

[Aporeia]

Shadowbane_Inquisitor

False Dichotomy

That's a pretty stupid assumption. People can live together without sleeping together. There's several unmarried couples that live together that go so far they don't even kiss.

Also, it's a little silly to say that living in the same house is grounds for sexual temptation, when literally going anywhere private, the car included, is no less so. Dating, to begin with, is just one giant temptation, but we are not a culture that arranges marriages, nor one that even marries without at least 2 years of a bf/gf relationship before anyone says "you're just being rash."

At least a couple that lives together is preparing themselves for married life.

You are right...there are some that can live together without sleeping together. However the nature of modern thinking (socially) often goes right back to the couple sleeping together because they live together....which is the appearance of immorality, the appearance of sin and is as such against the Bible's teaching. You might not agree and it might not seem right or fair that a huge portion of the worlds population goes to thinking that way but the fact still remains, people think that way and when many of them are asked it's fairly often they say they expect sexual temptation...it's generally accepted that "those getting married/those who love one another/those engaged" have "passion" for their partner, it's natural and expected.

Again I say as a result, it is not honoring to God for a man and a woman to live together outside of marriage.

I'm pretty sure God REALLY doesn't care if someone thinks you're sinning if you aren't. That's a really, really loose, and frankly childish interpretation.

Edit: oh, and on further study, it's a poor translation to begin with. Aside from the KJV, nearly every other translation doesn't even use that word.


New International Version (©2011)
reject every kind of evil.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Stay away from every kind of evil.

English Standard Version (©2001)
Abstain from every form of evil.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
abstain from every form of evil.

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
Stay away from every kind of evil.

International Standard Version (©2012)
Keep away from every kind of evil.

NET Bible (©2006)
Stay away from every form of evil.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Flee from every evil matter.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Keep away from every kind of evil.

American Standard Version
abstain from every form of evil.

Darby Bible Translation
hold aloof from every form of wickedness.

English Revised Version
abstain from every form of evil.

Weymouth New Testament
Hold yourselves aloof from every form of evil.

World English Bible
Abstain from every form of evil.


Apparently the word "εἴδους" translates much closer to "form" or "kind."  

[Father Delacroix]

False Dichotomy

Shadowbane_Inquisitor

False Dichotomy

That's a pretty stupid assumption. People can live together without sleeping together. There's several unmarried couples that live together that go so far they don't even kiss.

Also, it's a little silly to say that living in the same house is grounds for sexual temptation, when literally going anywhere private, the car included, is no less so. Dating, to begin with, is just one giant temptation, but we are not a culture that arranges marriages, nor one that even marries without at least 2 years of a bf/gf relationship before anyone says "you're just being rash."

At least a couple that lives together is preparing themselves for married life.

You are right...there are some that can live together without sleeping together. However the nature of modern thinking (socially) often goes right back to the couple sleeping together because they live together....which is the appearance of immorality, the appearance of sin and is as such against the Bible's teaching. You might not agree and it might not seem right or fair that a huge portion of the worlds population goes to thinking that way but the fact still remains, people think that way and when many of them are asked it's fairly often they say they expect sexual temptation...it's generally accepted that "those getting married/those who love one another/those engaged" have "passion" for their partner, it's natural and expected.

Again I say as a result, it is not honoring to God for a man and a woman to live together outside of marriage.

I'm pretty sure God REALLY doesn't care if someone thinks you're sinning if you aren't. That's a really, really loose, and frankly childish interpretation.

That is part of the wonder of life, the ability to disagree with one another. (though in all truth I do not completely disagree anyways)
The ability to interpret the Bible and it's words as we wish to see them and come to our own conclusions. It's a fairly popular interpretation of what the bible has to say, one that has been taught to hundreds of thousands of Priest's and Pastor's alike for generations now. If you look back though history you can see the same signs of thinking by people of different cultures.
I am sorry you disagree with me and I simply can't hold such against you.  

[Aporeia]

Shadowbane_Inquisitor

False Dichotomy

Shadowbane_Inquisitor

False Dichotomy

That's a pretty stupid assumption. People can live together without sleeping together. There's several unmarried couples that live together that go so far they don't even kiss.

Also, it's a little silly to say that living in the same house is grounds for sexual temptation, when literally going anywhere private, the car included, is no less so. Dating, to begin with, is just one giant temptation, but we are not a culture that arranges marriages, nor one that even marries without at least 2 years of a bf/gf relationship before anyone says "you're just being rash."

At least a couple that lives together is preparing themselves for married life.

You are right...there are some that can live together without sleeping together. However the nature of modern thinking (socially) often goes right back to the couple sleeping together because they live together....which is the appearance of immorality, the appearance of sin and is as such against the Bible's teaching. You might not agree and it might not seem right or fair that a huge portion of the worlds population goes to thinking that way but the fact still remains, people think that way and when many of them are asked it's fairly often they say they expect sexual temptation...it's generally accepted that "those getting married/those who love one another/those engaged" have "passion" for their partner, it's natural and expected.

Again I say as a result, it is not honoring to God for a man and a woman to live together outside of marriage.

I'm pretty sure God REALLY doesn't care if someone thinks you're sinning if you aren't. That's a really, really loose, and frankly childish interpretation.

That is part of the wonder of life, the ability to disagree with one another. (though in all truth I do not completely disagree anyways)
The ability to interpret the Bible and it's words as we wish to see them and come to our own conclusions. It's a fairly popular interpretation of what the bible has to say, one that has been taught to hundreds of thousands of Priest's and Pastor's alike for generations now. If you look back though history you can see the same signs of thinking by people of different cultures.
I am sorry you disagree with me and I simply can't hold such against you.

I'd recommend you see my edit. ^^  

[Father Delacroix]

I saw your edit and truthfully it did not change my response.
The thread is not about translations of the bible and how they differ. I can say honestly that I use a collection of differing (translation) bibles in everyday life. You have to look past the bible and to the actual manuscripts that version of the bible used when translating as many contain error's to begin with. Several newer translations tend to paraphrase a bit too often for my tastes. Thankfully I went to seminary where I learned, Greek, Hebrew and Latin.  

[Servant Reborn]

Romans 14
New King James Version (NKJV)

The Law of Liberty

14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written:

“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.

The Law of Love

14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; 17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For he who serves Christ in these things is acceptable to God and approved by men.

19 Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. 21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak. 22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.

1 Corinthians 8

New King James Version (NKJV)

Be Sensitive to Conscience

8 Now concerning things offered to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies. 2 And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. 3 But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him.

4 Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

7 However, there is not in everyone that knowledge; for some, with consciousness of the idol, until now eat it as a thing offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8 But food does not commend us to God; for neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse.

9 But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols? 11 And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12 But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.  

[Aporeia]

Shadowbane_Inquisitor

I saw your edit and truthfully it did not change my response.
The thread is not about translations of the bible and how they differ. I can say honestly that I use a collection of differing (translation) bibles in everyday life. You have to look past the bible and to the actual manuscripts that version of the bible used when translating as many contain error's to begin with. Several newer translations tend to paraphrase a bit too often for my tastes. Thankfully I went to seminary where I learned, Greek, Hebrew and Latin.

So you're going to take the KJV, the most notorious of mistranslated bibles aside from perhaps the NWT, over almost every other translation which sought to correct the mistake?

Wonderful.