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 Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:54 pm
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:17 pm
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:28 pm
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Nn. Well, I think that part of it is that some people think the Catholic focus on Saints is close to having Idols or even outright Polytheism. Others want to have a close relationship with God, and not have to go through someone else. Others think the idea of a central religious authority that answers all questions is a little too overbearing, since they don't believe the Church to be infallible, and therefore even the Pope could potentially be wrong (Catholics, of course, may disagree). And still other people think there should be less of an emphasis on enormous cathedrals and outrageously rich interiors, and more focus on giving to others and helping them out.
And then there's the people who think that Catholic attitudes over the past 1900-ish years are what lead to the Holocaust, of course. See the book "Constantine's Sword" for more on that.
*Shrugs*
Me, I think Catholics are absolutely Christian, just... liable to get some of the details wrong. Of course, I say the same thing about the church I attend, so yeah. I wouldn't say that I particularly dislike Catholics or anything, but I do think that some policies and traditions have caused more harm than good, and I'd like to see those changed. Just as, y'know, a human being who prefers results with the highest level of "good".
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:31 pm
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:38 pm
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ArchAngel Nikolai kesuke uchiha Catholics get it pretty rough....but it's not just them...its all of us...it's a war on religion....and most of it is centered on Christianity....for obvious reasons (( even says in the bible that people will persecute us)) however.....Catholics well.....have a very colorful past....the crusades and all....it's not right to blame them...but a combination of mankind's arrogance and the events that transpired during the dark ages left a rather.......negative mark on the Catholic faith. And seeing it has a defined leader and so much power.....it is easy to take aim at Just those few things have made it as targeted as it is today There is more I am sure but that is a start People are Flawed, I myself am Orthodox and we don't take the popes word as law, but we recognize the need for leadership to prevent heresy. We can't have people teaching one thing in cali, and another thing in NY. I'll be the first to admit There was corruption, that doesn't mean the faith itself is wrong. There is corruption in every christian sect. Negative mark or not, Man's sin does not make the belief wrong.
this I know and dont worry..I am not taking up arms against you...lol sorry if I kinda put that image out...I am just answering your question to the best of my ability
you do not have to defend yourself in this guild....and if you do...then there is a problem. this is a safe haven for christians.
yes there is corruption as there is in anything... though I think we can all agree there is a great deal of differenced in what Gods will is and how man can twist Gods will into what profits them.... this form of corruption is a heresy that is all too known to us...we can see it in our pasts and in the current church...but do not concern yourself with it...only rise up against it when you see it...that is all that we should do as it has been said
vengence is Gods and Gods alone we have no place moving against them on our own means |
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:42 pm
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Rednal Nn. Well, I think that part of it is that some people think the Catholic focus on Saints is close to having Idols or even outright Polytheism. Others want to have a close relationship with God, and not have to go through someone else. Others think the idea of a central religious authority that answers all questions is a little too overbearing, since they don't believe the Church to be infallible, and therefore even the Pope could potentially be wrong (Catholics, of course, may disagree). And still other people think there should be less of an emphasis on enormous cathedrals and outrageously rich interiors, and more focus on giving to others and helping them out. And then there's the people who think that Catholic attitudes over the past 1900-ish years are what lead to the Holocaust, of course. See the book "Constantine's Sword" for more on that. *Shrugs* Me, I think Catholics are absolutely Christian, just... liable to get some of the details wrong. Of course, I say the same thing about the church I attend, so yeah. I wouldn't say that I particularly dislike Catholics or anything, but I do think that some policies and traditions have caused more harm than good, and I'd like to see those changed. Just as, y'know, a human being who prefers results with the highest level of "good".
Asking a saint to intercede in prayer is the same as asking your friend to pray for you. You can think thats wrong all you want, but its not about what you think. If God is real, If Through God the earlier Church Leaders out together the bible, Then God played a part in the tradition that were being practiced while the new testament was being put together.
Catholic thinking cause the holocaust? Fact: Hitler could have blamed it on anyone. There was a professor who did a study, He started to separate his class tell one group they were better then the other. By the end out It the one group Hated the other group of kids. Hitler used the economical state of his country to control his people. but then again If you want to blame the church go ahead.
What policies and tradition cause more harm then good? |
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:48 pm
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kesuke uchiha ArchAngel Nikolai kesuke uchiha Catholics get it pretty rough....but it's not just them...its all of us...it's a war on religion....and most of it is centered on Christianity....for obvious reasons (( even says in the bible that people will persecute us)) however.....Catholics well.....have a very colorful past....the crusades and all....it's not right to blame them...but a combination of mankind's arrogance and the events that transpired during the dark ages left a rather.......negative mark on the Catholic faith. And seeing it has a defined leader and so much power.....it is easy to take aim at Just those few things have made it as targeted as it is today There is more I am sure but that is a start People are Flawed, I myself am Orthodox and we don't take the popes word as law, but we recognize the need for leadership to prevent heresy. We can't have people teaching one thing in cali, and another thing in NY. I'll be the first to admit There was corruption, that doesn't mean the faith itself is wrong. There is corruption in every christian sect. Negative mark or not, Man's sin does not make the belief wrong. this I know and dont worry..I am not taking up arms against you...lol sorry if I kinda put that image out...I am just answering your question to the best of my ability you do not have to defend yourself in this guild....and if you do...then there is a problem. this is a safe haven for christians. yes there is corruption as there is in anything... though I think we can all agree there is a great deal of differenced in what Gods will is and how man can twist Gods will into what profits them.... this form of corruption is a heresy that is all too known to us...we can see it in our pasts and in the current church...but do not concern yourself with it...only rise up against it when you see it...that is all that we should do as it has been said vengence is Gods and Gods alone we have no place moving against them on our own means
Yes we can tell the difference
between truth and heresy but Corruption of people in power does not make 2000 years of tradition and belief wrong.
First Forum I saw when i joined the guild was "Are Catholics Christian...." and a bunch of people saying no they are not.
Despite the fact that catholics have been doing "Christian" longer then anyone. |
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:51 pm
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ArchAngel Nikolai Rednal Nn. Well, I think that part of it is that some people think the Catholic focus on Saints is close to having Idols or even outright Polytheism. Others want to have a close relationship with God, and not have to go through someone else. Others think the idea of a central religious authority that answers all questions is a little too overbearing, since they don't believe the Church to be infallible, and therefore even the Pope could potentially be wrong (Catholics, of course, may disagree). And still other people think there should be less of an emphasis on enormous cathedrals and outrageously rich interiors, and more focus on giving to others and helping them out. And then there's the people who think that Catholic attitudes over the past 1900-ish years are what lead to the Holocaust, of course. See the book "Constantine's Sword" for more on that. *Shrugs* Me, I think Catholics are absolutely Christian, just... liable to get some of the details wrong. Of course, I say the same thing about the church I attend, so yeah. I wouldn't say that I particularly dislike Catholics or anything, but I do think that some policies and traditions have caused more harm than good, and I'd like to see those changed. Just as, y'know, a human being who prefers results with the highest level of "good". Asking a saint to intercede in prayer is the same as asking your friend to pray for you. You can think thats wrong all you want, but its not about what you think. If God is real, If Through God the earlier Church Leaders out together the bible, Then God played a part in the tradition that were being practiced while the new testament was being put together. Catholic thinking cause the holocaust? Fact: Hitler could have blamed it on anyone. There was a professor who did a study, He started to separate his class tell one group they were better then the other. By the end out It the one group Hated the other group of kids. Hitler used the economical state of his country to control his people. but then again If you want to blame the church go ahead. What policies and tradition cause more harm then good?
not an expert or anything...but he may have been talking about another holocaust....where thousands upon thousands of not jews but Muslims where killed.....the crusades....
I did a quick study...and I am too sure...but what I have been led to believe is that it had a point in the begining...a good cause....but then that cause got twisted into vengence and turned into a hunt where the templars and religous fanatics just went out to kill every non christian they could get their hands on...man woman or child....which as you can imagine...is very unpopular... |
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:58 pm
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kesuke uchiha ArchAngel Nikolai Rednal Nn. Well, I think that part of it is that some people think the Catholic focus on Saints is close to having Idols or even outright Polytheism. Others want to have a close relationship with God, and not have to go through someone else. Others think the idea of a central religious authority that answers all questions is a little too overbearing, since they don't believe the Church to be infallible, and therefore even the Pope could potentially be wrong (Catholics, of course, may disagree). And still other people think there should be less of an emphasis on enormous cathedrals and outrageously rich interiors, and more focus on giving to others and helping them out. And then there's the people who think that Catholic attitudes over the past 1900-ish years are what lead to the Holocaust, of course. See the book "Constantine's Sword" for more on that. *Shrugs* Me, I think Catholics are absolutely Christian, just... liable to get some of the details wrong. Of course, I say the same thing about the church I attend, so yeah. I wouldn't say that I particularly dislike Catholics or anything, but I do think that some policies and traditions have caused more harm than good, and I'd like to see those changed. Just as, y'know, a human being who prefers results with the highest level of "good". Asking a saint to intercede in prayer is the same as asking your friend to pray for you. You can think thats wrong all you want, but its not about what you think. If God is real, If Through God the earlier Church Leaders out together the bible, Then God played a part in the tradition that were being practiced while the new testament was being put together. Catholic thinking cause the holocaust? Fact: Hitler could have blamed it on anyone. There was a professor who did a study, He started to separate his class tell one group they were better then the other. By the end out It the one group Hated the other group of kids. Hitler used the economical state of his country to control his people. but then again If you want to blame the church go ahead. What policies and tradition cause more harm then good? not an expert or anything...but he may have been talking about another holocaust....where thousands upon thousands of not jews but Muslims where killed.....the crusades.... I did a quick study...and I am too sure...but what I have been led to believe is that it had a point in the begining...a good cause....but then that cause got twisted into vengence and turned into a hunt where the templars and religous fanatics just went out to kill every non christian they could get their hands on...man woman or child....which as you can imagine...is very unpopular...
Im not going to defend the Crusades. This is how it went down in history class. The Kings have family sons, nephews, cousins that did not own any land. They were all knights, they had nothing to do but get drunk and fight each other. It got out of hand. To keep them busy and to stop all the knights and kings from fighting each other the pope called for a crusade to the holy land. Their were reasons for it, and its the same as so called christians today saying we should invade Iran, Iraq, or any other country. People start wars over power, It doesnt matter if religion is involved or not.
But again I agree there were mistakes in the past, But The crusades weren't a policy or a tradition.
What Policies or traditions do you believe are more harmful? |
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:03 pm
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ArchAngel Nikolai kesuke uchiha ArchAngel Nikolai kesuke uchiha Catholics get it pretty rough....but it's not just them...its all of us...it's a war on religion....and most of it is centered on Christianity....for obvious reasons (( even says in the bible that people will persecute us)) however.....Catholics well.....have a very colorful past....the crusades and all....it's not right to blame them...but a combination of mankind's arrogance and the events that transpired during the dark ages left a rather.......negative mark on the Catholic faith. And seeing it has a defined leader and so much power.....it is easy to take aim at Just those few things have made it as targeted as it is today There is more I am sure but that is a start People are Flawed, I myself am Orthodox and we don't take the popes word as law, but we recognize the need for leadership to prevent heresy. We can't have people teaching one thing in cali, and another thing in NY. I'll be the first to admit There was corruption, that doesn't mean the faith itself is wrong. There is corruption in every christian sect. Negative mark or not, Man's sin does not make the belief wrong. this I know and dont worry..I am not taking up arms against you...lol sorry if I kinda put that image out...I am just answering your question to the best of my ability you do not have to defend yourself in this guild....and if you do...then there is a problem. this is a safe haven for christians. yes there is corruption as there is in anything... though I think we can all agree there is a great deal of differenced in what Gods will is and how man can twist Gods will into what profits them.... this form of corruption is a heresy that is all too known to us...we can see it in our pasts and in the current church...but do not concern yourself with it...only rise up against it when you see it...that is all that we should do as it has been said vengence is Gods and Gods alone we have no place moving against them on our own means Yes we can tell the difference between truth and heresy but Corruption of people in power does not make 2000 years of tradition and belief wrong. First Forum I saw when i joined the guild was "Are Catholics Christian...." and a bunch of people saying no they are not. Despite the fact that catholics have been doing "Christian" longer then anyone.
yes I saw that topic and if you look in there...you will see my opinion...but this guild is not anti anything...and if it is...I will be leaving very shortly....a true christian does not hate against anything....not even other religions....I even have good friends with good hearts that are buddist and even pagan....yes I believe that their faith is wrong...but no....I do not think less of them because of their choices...christianity was not meant to be forced onto anyone....and therefore we are not to treat any one differently we all have our opinions and it does not matter who was first or whos beliefs are the oldest....we are all sons and daughters of God and we all have no right to say that any of us are more than another because of our faith
that goes for me you my friends and everyone...
if you really want to go into catholic problems and such...then first you have know....every nation every religion and every person.....they all have skeletons in their closet....some bigger than others....but we all have them and fault can be thrown anywere....we cant just say one religion is better or more correct than another |
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:07 pm
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ArchAngel Nikolai kesuke uchiha ArchAngel Nikolai Rednal Nn. Well, I think that part of it is that some people think the Catholic focus on Saints is close to having Idols or even outright Polytheism. Others want to have a close relationship with God, and not have to go through someone else. Others think the idea of a central religious authority that answers all questions is a little too overbearing, since they don't believe the Church to be infallible, and therefore even the Pope could potentially be wrong (Catholics, of course, may disagree). And still other people think there should be less of an emphasis on enormous cathedrals and outrageously rich interiors, and more focus on giving to others and helping them out. And then there's the people who think that Catholic attitudes over the past 1900-ish years are what lead to the Holocaust, of course. See the book "Constantine's Sword" for more on that. *Shrugs* Me, I think Catholics are absolutely Christian, just... liable to get some of the details wrong. Of course, I say the same thing about the church I attend, so yeah. I wouldn't say that I particularly dislike Catholics or anything, but I do think that some policies and traditions have caused more harm than good, and I'd like to see those changed. Just as, y'know, a human being who prefers results with the highest level of "good". Asking a saint to intercede in prayer is the same as asking your friend to pray for you. You can think thats wrong all you want, but its not about what you think. If God is real, If Through God the earlier Church Leaders out together the bible, Then God played a part in the tradition that were being practiced while the new testament was being put together. Catholic thinking cause the holocaust? Fact: Hitler could have blamed it on anyone. There was a professor who did a study, He started to separate his class tell one group they were better then the other. By the end out It the one group Hated the other group of kids. Hitler used the economical state of his country to control his people. but then again If you want to blame the church go ahead. What policies and tradition cause more harm then good? not an expert or anything...but he may have been talking about another holocaust....where thousands upon thousands of not jews but Muslims where killed.....the crusades.... I did a quick study...and I am too sure...but what I have been led to believe is that it had a point in the begining...a good cause....but then that cause got twisted into vengence and turned into a hunt where the templars and religous fanatics just went out to kill every non christian they could get their hands on...man woman or child....which as you can imagine...is very unpopular... Im not going to defend the Crusades. This is how it went down in history class. The Kings have family sons, nephews, cousins that did not own any land. They were all knights, they had nothing to do but get drunk and fight each other. It got out of hand. To keep them busy and to stop all the knights and kings from fighting each other the pope called for a crusade to the holy land. Their were reasons for it, and its the same as so called christians today saying we should invade Iran, Iraq, or any other country. People start wars over power, It doesnt matter if religion is involved or not. But again I agree there were mistakes in the past, But The crusades weren't a policy or a tradition. What Policies or traditions do you believe are more harmful?
some policies and traditions are set by man....and man is arrogant...and not to be trusted at face value....there is no saying what is more harmful....so long as we are mortal we will never have it right...that is just our nature
many things of God are just beyond mortal comprehension and when we try and figure it out...people get hurt...wars get started and Christianity is stained again |
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:09 pm
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kesuke uchiha ArchAngel Nikolai kesuke uchiha ArchAngel Nikolai kesuke uchiha Catholics get it pretty rough....but it's not just them...its all of us...it's a war on religion....and most of it is centered on Christianity....for obvious reasons (( even says in the bible that people will persecute us)) however.....Catholics well.....have a very colorful past....the crusades and all....it's not right to blame them...but a combination of mankind's arrogance and the events that transpired during the dark ages left a rather.......negative mark on the Catholic faith. And seeing it has a defined leader and so much power.....it is easy to take aim at Just those few things have made it as targeted as it is today There is more I am sure but that is a start People are Flawed, I myself am Orthodox and we don't take the popes word as law, but we recognize the need for leadership to prevent heresy. We can't have people teaching one thing in cali, and another thing in NY. I'll be the first to admit There was corruption, that doesn't mean the faith itself is wrong. There is corruption in every christian sect. Negative mark or not, Man's sin does not make the belief wrong. this I know and dont worry..I am not taking up arms against you...lol sorry if I kinda put that image out...I am just answering your question to the best of my ability you do not have to defend yourself in this guild....and if you do...then there is a problem. this is a safe haven for christians. yes there is corruption as there is in anything... though I think we can all agree there is a great deal of differenced in what Gods will is and how man can twist Gods will into what profits them.... this form of corruption is a heresy that is all too known to us...we can see it in our pasts and in the current church...but do not concern yourself with it...only rise up against it when you see it...that is all that we should do as it has been said vengence is Gods and Gods alone we have no place moving against them on our own means Yes we can tell the difference between truth and heresy but Corruption of people in power does not make 2000 years of tradition and belief wrong. First Forum I saw when i joined the guild was "Are Catholics Christian...." and a bunch of people saying no they are not. Despite the fact that catholics have been doing "Christian" longer then anyone. yes I saw that topic and if you look in there...you will see my opinion...but this guild is not anti anything...and if it is...I will be leaving very shortly....a true christian does not hate against anything....not even other religions....I even have good friends with good hearts that are buddist and even pagan....yes I believe that their faith is wrong...but no....I do not think less of them because of their choices...christianity was not meant to be forced onto anyone....and therefore we are not to treat any one differently we all have our opinions and it does not matter who was first or whos beliefs are the oldest....we are all sons and daughters of God and we all have no right to say that any of us are more than another because of our faith that goes for me you my friends and everyone... if you really want to go into catholic problems and such...then first you have know....every nation every religion and every person.....they all have skeletons in their closet....some bigger than others....but we all have them and fault can be thrown anywere....we cant just say one religion is better or more correct than another
Yes and as i said in my first statement I think we and christians should be united. I did start the forum to whine about people hatin, But instead to be hear to clear up any misunderstanding in the faith and tradition of the catholic church. |
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:11 pm
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kesuke uchiha ArchAngel Nikolai kesuke uchiha ArchAngel Nikolai Rednal Nn. Well, I think that part of it is that some people think the Catholic focus on Saints is close to having Idols or even outright Polytheism. Others want to have a close relationship with God, and not have to go through someone else. Others think the idea of a central religious authority that answers all questions is a little too overbearing, since they don't believe the Church to be infallible, and therefore even the Pope could potentially be wrong (Catholics, of course, may disagree). And still other people think there should be less of an emphasis on enormous cathedrals and outrageously rich interiors, and more focus on giving to others and helping them out. And then there's the people who think that Catholic attitudes over the past 1900-ish years are what lead to the Holocaust, of course. See the book "Constantine's Sword" for more on that. *Shrugs* Me, I think Catholics are absolutely Christian, just... liable to get some of the details wrong. Of course, I say the same thing about the church I attend, so yeah. I wouldn't say that I particularly dislike Catholics or anything, but I do think that some policies and traditions have caused more harm than good, and I'd like to see those changed. Just as, y'know, a human being who prefers results with the highest level of "good". Asking a saint to intercede in prayer is the same as asking your friend to pray for you. You can think thats wrong all you want, but its not about what you think. If God is real, If Through God the earlier Church Leaders out together the bible, Then God played a part in the tradition that were being practiced while the new testament was being put together. Catholic thinking cause the holocaust? Fact: Hitler could have blamed it on anyone. There was a professor who did a study, He started to separate his class tell one group they were better then the other. By the end out It the one group Hated the other group of kids. Hitler used the economical state of his country to control his people. but then again If you want to blame the church go ahead. What policies and tradition cause more harm then good? not an expert or anything...but he may have been talking about another holocaust....where thousands upon thousands of not jews but Muslims where killed.....the crusades.... I did a quick study...and I am too sure...but what I have been led to believe is that it had a point in the begining...a good cause....but then that cause got twisted into vengence and turned into a hunt where the templars and religous fanatics just went out to kill every non christian they could get their hands on...man woman or child....which as you can imagine...is very unpopular... Im not going to defend the Crusades. This is how it went down in history class. The Kings have family sons, nephews, cousins that did not own any land. They were all knights, they had nothing to do but get drunk and fight each other. It got out of hand. To keep them busy and to stop all the knights and kings from fighting each other the pope called for a crusade to the holy land. Their were reasons for it, and its the same as so called christians today saying we should invade Iran, Iraq, or any other country. People start wars over power, It doesnt matter if religion is involved or not. But again I agree there were mistakes in the past, But The crusades weren't a policy or a tradition. What Policies or traditions do you believe are more harmful? some policies and traditions are set by man....and man is arrogant...and not to be trusted at face value....there is no saying what is more harmful....so long as we are mortal we will never have it right...that is just our nature many things of God are just beyond mortal comprehension and when we try and figure it out...people get hurt...wars get started and Christianity is stained again
Thats a bit vague. Name a policy you disagree with and I can at least explain why we do it. |
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:22 pm
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In addition The Nicene council that Put together the New testament also put together a profession of Christian Faith
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
People can be corrupt, But it doesn't make the faith and beliefs are wrong. If the belief is wrong who's to say the entire bible is wrong Because they were the ones that put it together. |
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:23 pm
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Quote: Catholic thinking cause the holocaust? Fact: Hitler could have blamed it on anyone. There was a professor who did a study, He started to separate his class tell one group they were better then the other. By the end out It the one group Hated the other group of kids. Hitler used the economical state of his country to control his people. but then again If you want to blame the church go ahead.
*Grins*
Yeah, it's pretty easy to make groups dislike each other. In fact, some schools of thought suggest that the *only* thing you need is to have groups at all. Think less current Catholic thinking and more... couple thousand years of Anti-Jewish actions. It does sort of build up.
Of course, on the other hand, I'm a terrible, awful person who will question every single belief a church has without hesitation (up to and including that the Bible was, in fact, put together with God's help and wasn't just a collection of the texts thought most politically expedient; yay, heresy!) in an attempt to find better answers... so I don't think I do very well with Churches who expect you to agree that they have all the answers, all the time. I figure that if you can't admit the possibility of being wrong, you're probably on the way to a kind of fanaticism or fundamentalism, along with overly-narrow interpretations of things that probably weren't meant to be taken literally. Like, was Jonah actually eaten by a whale/giant fish, or was that a metaphor for a Roman prison? Or something else?
Quote: What policies and tradition cause more harm then good?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Ghetto
That one. |
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