Afraid of being kicked out of church. Help? :cry:

[Aquatic_blue]

I apologize if this is too long (if I don't get responses for a few days, I won't be offended), so here I go:

I've been having a difficult time lately. I don't know whether for sure I'm facing getting kicked out, but it certainly feels like it. Okay, my husband works with special ed kids and gets sick quite often because the parents bring the kids to school sick all the time. There's a lot of germs there and we've gotten sick a lot of the time. The sicknesses can last from weeks, to days, to even months and it hasn't been fun. A lot of the times on Sundays we aren't feeling good, and my husband works the whole school week and it wears him out so bad and he has to get his homework for school done as well so we can't always make it. We've gone back to my church, which is a Church of Christ, a few times...maybe about 4 times and we've been married for a little over 7 months. My parents would pick me up and take me to college classes sometimes when my husband was at work and I'd get lectured about not showing up at church and everything. My parents always would say we need to go to church, or say that we need to get enough sleep the night before and all of that. We do try to go, and I confess there are a few times where we were downright tired and just didn't feel like going so we had a Bible study at home later in the day instead.

People at my church have been avoiding me lately. When we go to church, some people are happy to see us, and the majority are not. We are an interracial couple and my church doesn't seem to like that. I mean, we got all these RSVP's from people saying they could make it, but when we saw them they would say, "I'm sorry, I forgot." and a guy that doesn't like my husband in the church said, "Oh, I'm taking my wife on a surprise trip in a few weeks!" It was the week of the wedding and he hadn't told her yet. My Mom I have a feeling may be having a hard time adjusting since she always told me I should marry a white man that's preferably Christian. I married a Christian, but he isn't white...he's Hawaiian with some oriental and other mixed stuff in him. I have learned so much from my husband and he has told me stuff about my church he hasn't agreed with.

By the way, I also posted in this same sub-forum the topic: "Problems within the church. Not sure what to do about it... " and some of you have read that and noticed there were a lot of problems so I'm not going to go in that too much.

Anyway, other times at my church we have felt so judged and felt unwelcomed by the people at times. For my parent's sake, we'd go to make them happy when we could, but it obviously wasn't enough. People at church aren't buying into a "sick, busy, and tired" excuse anymore. No one from church has contacted me and even my own parents haven't contacted me. Everytime I do, my Mom texts back in a short little response. She responds, but the way she does it, it sounds like, "I don't care..." and it really hurts me because I love my parents. Sure, I may have argued with them before and may not believe the same way they do anymore, but I still love them. They used to contact me all the time and ask how I was doing, call to invite us to lunch or dinner during the week, etc. and now there is none of that. I don't feel the love anymore. It suddenly stopped. On Facebook I talked to one of the girl's that's 14 and she hasn't been to church in a few weeks because her family has all been sick and had bad coughs. I talked to another woman and she just answered me and said she was fine, but it didn't sound like she wanted to talk to me. I responded back and she hasn't responded. I've tried talking to the man that married my husband and I (and blessed us with an amazing honeymoon) to tell him how our honeymoon went and say that we enjoyed it so much and was thanking him again. I wanted to tell him about all the fun we had because a while ago, my Mom was saying that he wanted to hear about our trip. We haven't gotten the chance, so I figured I'd tell him. I messaged him on Facebook once on the chat and he went idle within a few minutes. The next day, he was on so I said, "Hello." and he was available on his status for 3 hours and then went idle and later was logged off. Then he messaged me saying, "Hi Kaylen... just saw this message tonight ...how are you guys doing?" It doesn't sound like he wants to talk to us at all and I last messaged him like 2 days ago and he just now got it. He was online for a while and I replied and he hasn't messaged back. I was also in the middle of this discussion with this woman from church and she stops in the middle of the conversation and hasn't responded back. No one from church really has, and they always used to so I'm not sure what's going on.

I know in the past that my church has kicked people out of the church. I never knew how cold they were until my uncle's wife left him and took the kids and he ended up finding another woman and living with her. My parents said the church told him that it wasn't right, but I am not sure if they did it in a loving or in a rude way. My uncle may have married her and gotten divorced, or found another woman or something, but I know now for sure that he's married again. The church doesn't approve of divorce and kicks out those who have been divorced. I don't necessarily understand why because I believe that's when they need church the most. If they don't have their wrong explained to them with love and caring then I don't think they'd ever repent. I still love my uncle because he's family and I grew up loving my uncle when he was married to his first wife. My Dad and him were tight. They'd always go hunting together, and we'd go over to their house for Christmas parties, and my uncle knew we loved bugs so he brought over a tarantula once to show us and stuff, etc. When he got divorced when I was in my teens, my parents were bad mouthing him and they wouldn't eat with him...they say it says in the Bible not to eat with sinners or whatever. I honestly think that is probably part of a verse they took out of context. Plus, everyone is a sinner, right? So when we hung out with him and my aunts and cousins, my parents didn't eat and refused to eat and my husband and I didn't want to eat to annoy my parents so we ate before we came and just kindly said, "No thanks, we already ate." I was so tempted because that pizza and buffalo wings looked excellent. We chatted with my uncle and my parents were ignoring him. I invited my uncle to my wedding and he came and the first time in a long time, I saw my Dad actually hug his brother. I mean, my husband told me about it, but I bet it was a tear jerker because I haven't even heard of them hugging in years. My parents...or at least my Mom was mad he was invited, but it was my wedding and I didn't want to leave family out. I believed it was totally unfair. My husband tried to take the blame and said, "It was my idea," but my brother stepped in and said, "It was my idea. I said they could invite him." and he was grounded for a few days just so I could enjoy my wedding day. It was sweet, and I've never seen him sacrifice what he likes to do just for me All I wish is that my parents weren't hateful towards my uncle. My parents shove away my uncle like an outcast now. I've tried to contact him to perhaps hang out and chill, but he hasn't responded and maybe he doesn't want me ending up like him. He loves to see his nieces and nephews. I just believe he should be treated like a human being instead of a stray animal, you know?

I am afraid I'm going to be shoved away like my uncle was either way. I've never gotten in any major trouble, I've never gone to jail, I've never been divorced, etc. yet lately they've been treating me like that. I mean, in the congregation...there is a man that got landed in jail for an accesory to a home invasion that caused serious injuries and damages, but he has about 20 years of time to do. People at church are always telling everyone to send him letters of encouragement and to write him and all of that. There is a sex offender in our church that's a son of one of the elders or...maybe he's a deacon...I can't remember. He's a higher authority in the church, but him and his wife visited him and asked people to pray for him and to mail him. He was in jail for 2 years for attempted molestation of a child/sexual abuse. He came back to church, and the Sunday before he was released onto parole, one of the elders of the church said to treat him like a brother and not to outcast him, but to treat him like we did before he went to jail, etc. He currently does go to our church, and I don't really have anything against him. He's odd, but he has to be around his parents. He can't be alone with minors due to one of his parole conditions. So, why does my church allow people who have been to jail under charges like that to come back, but they don't allow divorced couples to come back? It doesn't make sense to me.

One time this woman was crying because her brother-in-law/husband's brother cheated on his wife while he was working in another state and left her for another woman. They had both gone to our church for years and people were friends with them and once they found out they were getting a divorce, the church shut them out completely. The church discussed it and said that they tried to confront the husband and get him to work this out, but he refused all of their help and wouldn't talk. His wife is a sweet lady, always trying to help with community projects and get the youth involved with things (of course outside the church because in the church, they wouldn't allow a woman in authority...lame). She would always chat with anyone, be a listening ear to whoever needed it, etc. A really sweet lady and now she can't come to church because her and her husband are divorced. She is living with her adoptive father, the owner and elder in the church and she hasn't been going since she isn't allowed. It's very sad. Although he gave her a place to stay, she can't come to our church.

My sister turned 18 and was tired of living in the same house with my parents so she moved in with a friend about 20 - 30 minutes away and then they kicked her out and she found some friends and they moved to another city. She got tattoos and piercings like my Mom would never let her. My Mom hates it and now my parents hardly welcome her. If she visits then they let her sleep and stuff, but they have shut her out quite a bit. She hasn't gone to our church in a long time. She only goes when she visits for my parents sake. I know she loves Mom and Dad and she does come down to see and visit with my parents and me and my brother. I love my sister and it hurts me that my parents don't seem to want much to do with her. They love her, I believe, but they don't like the decisions she's made. If my parents will both turn away their own blood...if my Dad will turn away his own brother that he grew up with and had great memories, I'm so afraid that my parents are doing the same to me. I'm scared, sad, upset, angry, you name it.

If my church knew that my beliefs had changed, they'd probably shut me out even more. I get hurt that they shut people out who have gone there many years, or even all of their lives. I'm afraid of what's going to happen and I don't know how to handle this. I don't know if anyone else has been in this situation. I've been thinking what to do. I've been thinking that maybe I should visit my parents, but I don't want to anger them. I was thinking about just saying I'm leaving the church, but I don't want to cause people to be angry and hateful. I don't know if I should go to church now or what to see if they stop avoiding me, but I don't want to make me available for an argument if it is an argument they want. I've been praying about what I should do, and pray that my parents don't become distant or don't end up hating me because the church does. I'm afraid of the worst. I used to not be afraid of it, but now that everyone is avoiding me and no one comments on my stuff anymore or message me like they used to. The one lady that would always talk to me hasn't even sent me the church bulletin like she always does in weeks. It's kind of killing me. I don't like how that church does things, but I don't want them to be mad at me. I don't know what to do crying  

[Phantom Jutsu]

phewf. I can't believe I made it through that entire thing! XD

okay, let's get some ground work in. There are some ways that I can assotiate with you and some ways that i can't. First of all, it seems that your church is more up-tight than mine. For example, one of our members is a tatoo artist, and her arms are completely covered, to the point that her tatoos look like sleeves. Tattoos are seen as a personal conviction. Also, interracial marriages are common in the church and I personally think that it's beautiful.
Secondly, my parents are divorced. My dad is the one that left and he under went "church discipline".
this is a practice that has scriptural basis

"If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." {Matt 18:15-18 RSV}


I know that the church leaders did what they felt was their duty to God and the members of our church, and even to Dad; and that they did it in love. As his children, we were encouraged to continue to show Dad love and Mom is still welcomed at church because Dad is the one that left.

From what I can tell, it does seem that some of the people in your church are not reflecting the love of Christ as much as one might hope, which is a true tradgety.
It might be prudent of you to look for a new church, but I think you should consider it long and hard first. It could be that God has you in this church for a reason; possibly to show love to them even when they show no love to you; Just as christ did for us all, even to the point of death. Sorry I have to go now . lost track of time. might add on later  

[Gregar828]

If you want my brutally honest opinion, you should leave that church right now. Any church that would turn away someone that truly wants to be apart of the church, in my eyes, is no church at all. If you're upset about angering them, you shouldn't be; they should be the ones upset that they are driving people away from god, something I'm sure he is quite ticked off about.  

[Testicular Diabeetus]

Gregar828

If you want my brutally honest opinion, you should leave that church right now. Any church that would turn away someone that truly wants to be apart of the church, in my eyes, is no church at all. If you're upset about angering them, you shouldn't be; they should be the ones upset that they are driving people away from god, something I'm sure he is quite ticked off about.

Agreed.  

[Vegeta_Lover239]

Gregar828

If you want my brutally honest opinion, you should leave that church right now. Any church that would turn away someone that truly wants to be apart of the church, in my eyes, is no church at all. If you're upset about angering them, you shouldn't be; they should be the ones upset that they are driving people away from god, something I'm sure he is quite ticked off about.

~~

Dis. :3

~~

 

[Aquatic_blue]

Phantom Jutsu

phewf. I can't believe I made it through that entire thing! XD

okay, let's get some ground work in. There are some ways that I can assotiate with you and some ways that i can't. First of all, it seems that your church is more up-tight than mine. For example, one of our members is a tatoo artist, and her arms are completely covered, to the point that her tatoos look like sleeves. Tattoos are seen as a personal conviction. Also, interracial marriages are common in the church and I personally think that it's beautiful.
Secondly, my parents are divorced. My dad is the one that left and he under went "church discipline".
this is a practice that has scriptural basis

"If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." {Matt 18:15-18 RSV}


I know that the church leaders did what they felt was their duty to God and the members of our church, and even to Dad; and that they did it in love. As his children, we were encouraged to continue to show Dad love and Mom is still welcomed at church because Dad is the one that left.

From what I can tell, it does seem that some of the people in your church are not reflecting the love of Christ as much as one might hope, which is a true tradgety.
It might be prudent of you to look for a new church, but I think you should consider it long and hard first. It could be that God has you in this church for a reason; possibly to show love to them even when they show no love to you; Just as christ did for us all, even to the point of death. Sorry I have to go now . lost track of time. might add on later

I thank you for reading and I'm sorry that it was incredibly long.

Well, I still don't really believe in the whole shutting people out of the church. In my mind it means when it says to treat them as a Gentile or tax collector to treat them as if they know nothing and you feel good inside because you tried your best to help so you don't need to go any further than the church. Although, that is my viewpoint. I see how your viewpoint is there as well.

The problem with this town is that so many churches are like this. My husband has visited many whether it was with a friend or just out of curiosity because he hasn't gone there and wants to know what it's like. So many churches see him as a threat and he's seen messed up stuff going on in churches and he says there aren't any places here really that believe what we believe. It's also a small town so there isn't a total variety. Unfortunately, that's the bad part.

I've been praying about it and it's possible there is a purpose. What's annoying me is that they are seeming to shut me out rather than to confront me about it. I would rather be confronted and given a chance to explain rather than be shut out automatically, you know? I don't know if there's a purpose there for me or not. I have been asking how people from church are doing and I always hope they're doing well, and yeah, sometimes I feel bad I can't be there, but other times I feel relieved when I don't show because I don't have to disagree even more and more each week. Since I've gone there my whole life, I don't want to put hate on the people. I only wish that I knew what was the right thing for me to do. I suppose I'll have to pray long and hard about it.  

[Aquatic_blue]

Gregar828

If you want my brutally honest opinion, you should leave that church right now. Any church that would turn away someone that truly wants to be apart of the church, in my eyes, is no church at all. If you're upset about angering them, you shouldn't be; they should be the ones upset that they are driving people away from god, something I'm sure he is quite ticked off about.

Well, I have been a member of that church for many years. According to them, you're a true member once you've gone there for at least a couple years and have been baptized and if they see you believe the way they do, they'll let you preach, but only allow men to preach. However, lately I've felt like they've been trying to run me off, or for me to leave my husband, or something like that. I know when I brought my husband to church with me, everyone was curious, played nice, and it was okay, but later on, it got worse. They were curious, but also needed answers, and seemed to judge him and he felt judged by the way they spoke, the way they stared, and he was on the missionary field most of his life and people try to say they're greater when my husband isn't wanting competition...he just says what he has done.

Lately, I have not desired wanting to be a member, but still unsure if I should hang on or let it go.

I'm sure God would be mad, yeah =( mad at the people I mean for driving other people away. It's a flaw in quite a few churches today...well, at least most of the churches in this town. It doesn't feel good when you are unwelcomed.  

[Phantom Jutsu]

It's clearly a tough situation all around then, and I'm sorry to hear that. I can understand your hesitation to go to church when there is so much tension to deal with, but I also feel concern for a Christian that is not actively plugged in to a local church and being fed God's word on a regular basis.
Have you considered respectfully voicing your concerns with any of the deacons? I think that it would need to be presented with humility, love, scripture and prayer.
I'm guessing that you have considered this, though, and are afraid that it would simply end with with you being shut out. Am I right?  

[Aquatic_blue]

Phantom Jutsu

It's clearly a tough situation all around then, and I'm sorry to hear that. I can understand your hesitation to go to church when there is so much tension to deal with, but I also feel concern for a Christian that is not actively plugged in to a local church and being fed God's word on a regular basis.
Have you considered respectfully voicing your concerns with any of the deacons? I think that it would need to be presented with humility, love, scripture and prayer.
I'm guessing that you have considered this, though, and are afraid that it would simply end with with you being shut out. Am I right?

Yes, I've been thinking of ways, but I'm wondering if it all ends with being shut out anyway. The thing is, the church is male dominated. They don't believe women should have that type of authority so if I go and say something then it'd probably be a shame to my parents and to me...I don't care as much as a shame to me, but I don't want my parents to be excluded because of me if that's where they want to be, even though it may not be a great place. My husband never wanted to separate me from my church so I don't know if he wants to go in there and cause a problem. We both don't want an argument to break out and for things to get ugly and if we do then they probably will. My husband said if they try to shove their beliefs down his throat ever that he'd state what he believes and stand for what he believes and he wouldn't go down without a fight if they picked a Bible war with him. I just don't know if there is a right way or wrong way to go about this situation. If I spoke my mind, I would never do it in hate because it isn't in hate and I don't feel hate towards them, but even if I tried they'd shut me out. Once, a woman that was a caregiver of the deacon's mother stood up and said women should be allowed to preach and that they should be equals. They let her preach her thing where she was standing and I saw one of the deacon's talking to her and she never came back. I'm sure he paid for a new caregiver for his mom and didn't want that in his church. Our church has stopped funding certain churches in the Philippines because there was a woman there that would preach, both women and men would preach and they found out so they stopped donating money to their church. In that church, it's shameful for a woman to speak her mind.  

[Phantom Jutsu]

This one is a harder and more touchy topic. My church also believes that women should not preach. It is not a matter of equality, merely a matter of God given roles. We were created that way. God mad Man first, He named the species for the man(and not woman), he gave Adam the right to name Eve which suggests authority, and Paul's letter describing the requirements for an elder clearly states that they must be a man. While Jesus was alive he spent time with several woman and it was clear that he cherished them, but the carefully selected twelve that later became church leaders were all men.
As a woman I know that can be hard to swallow, but I believe that it is the way we were designed. Woman was created for man, that is our role, it is God's plan and therefore it is perfect. This feels wrong and unfair but that is because of sin in men that chose to act superior instead of leading with care and humility as God intended, or it is sin in us. After all, when God cursed man for original sin he said to eve "your desire will be for your husband" which is the same phrase he spoke to Cain "sin is crouching at your door, it's desire is for you, but you must master it" So it shows that a part of the fall is that women will have a desire to rule men the way that sin has a desire to rule us all.
So while I whole heartedly believe that women contribute greatly to the church and that there are plenty of situations where a Christian man can learn from a Christian woman, I do not believe that it was God's plan to have woman preach in front of the congregation.  

[Rednal]

*Heavysigh*

Okay, let's take this one step at a time. Ahem. (This may turn out long... Sorry!)

If a specific Church decides to kick you out, then it's true, you probably didn't really belong there to start with. That aside, while it's good to go to Church and be with other Christians, I also think it's important to remember your relationship with God, not people, and it sounds like you are trying hard to keep that sort of thing in mind. The idea that "you have to come here or you are unworthy" is, to be frank, kind of elitist. Me? I suspect our ages aren't so far apart, and I go to church once a month and sit out in the hall, yet I suspect there are few people at my church who doubt my beliefs after I was baptized there. My personal faith is more private than public, and as far as I'm concerned, that's my business. As your faith should be your business.

Now, your mother sounds like she's kind of being racist... or, if not that, I think she's concerned with her image. You said "a white man that's preferably Christian" for her views, and to me, that sounds like she thinks appearance is more important than personality or faith. That's what I call a warning sign that she may not have either of your best interests at the front of her mind, but perhaps her own instead. Kudos to you for following your heart and not your mother's for who you want to marry. And I realize it's not nice to talk negatively about someone else's parents, but you definitely should not allow such a person to dictate your life.

In terms of feeling judged and unwelcome, if that's really how you feel, consider this: Do you want to go to a Church that's exclusive to people who are "like them"? Or do you want to find a place that's more focused on God and is accepting of people for who they are? If there's really nobody at the church who wants to talk to you, you can either try approaching them to make friends, leave things the way they are, or just plain leave. There are many choices for all things, so don't assume you need to do one or another based on what others think.

The problem with kicking people out of a church for an action the church doesn't believe with is that it continues to form an exclusive mentality... while a church really ought to be inclusive. People frequently take things out of context; as noted elsewhere, "People are stupid. They will believe anything, either because they want it to be true or they fear that it is." In this case, what that means is "People will interpret the Bible in a way that supports beliefs they already have and use this to justify negativity, resentment, or even outright hatred of others", which means they're completely missing the point. Anybody who uses the Bible to "justify" being rude, mean, unfriendly, etc. is probably not someone you want to be too close to. I don't think your brother should have been grounded for supporting you; if your mother wants only the people she wants to have around at your wedding, for example, that's another warning flag that she's probably too controlling. I think you should continue to try to talk to your uncle and treat him like a human yourself. Invite him over to your home for dinner on occasion, perhaps. And if you haven't already, let your brother know how much you appreciate him, too. ~.^

As you say for your church's work on accepting criminals but not you... to me, that sounds like further evidence of a church that's being exclusive. Maybe they read the Bible too literally, but it seems like they're doing things because it's the "Christian" thing to do, or expected of them, or... you know... whatever. At the same time, it doesn't really sound like the church encouages questioning of doctrine or much of anything except sitting in the pews and being good little sheep.

Your next paragraph isn't so much a tip-off as the rest of the nals being hammered in. The wife tried to help and be good, but she wasn't even given much of a choice (it seems), and they're rejecting her because somebody else essentially drove her into it. Women should certainly be permitted authority. o.O This place seems actively hostile to females having a leadership role, and that... doesn't really bode well for much of anything.

For your parents, I don't think it's right that you should have to continue living in fear of their disapproval. They do not control your life. Nor should you ever need to eel as if they do. You need to talk to them and resolve this issue. Point out that you love them and that they matter to you, but also point out to them the things you think they've done wrong. And then forgive them for it. There is much power in forgiveness, not only when you get it, but even more when you receive it. If they should reject you, forgive them for that as well, and move on with your life. I don't think anyone who's read this far in your post doubts that you care for them, but sometimes, you have to move on. On the other hand, perhaps talking to them (REALLY talking) will make them realize how they've been acting. You can certainly pray for that!

Once more, beliefs change. Beliefs that are common now were unheard of in the past, and to be exclusive seems largely contrary to what the Bible suggests as a good course of action. You *SHOULD* visit your parents. You may be afraid of angering them, but should you suffer because of that? If they truly love you, they should understand and accept your thoughts, even if they may disapprove of them. If they reject you, then pray for them, but accept their feelings and go find happiness again. For your church? Nah, don't bother going. Sorry, but for a place like the one you've described, it simply isn't worth it. My suggestion is to look around your area for another church (of a different denomination), and talk to some of the senior pastors there. Ask them about their beliefs on issues, tell them of your experiences, and try to find a church that suits you better. A church is a place to grow closer to God. If it ever makes you uncomfortable and feeling unwelcome, that specific building is not where you belong.

Don't live your life afraid of others getting mad at you. Follow your heart, and ask God to help show you the way. And remember, while you may feel hurt and alone, God is still with you, and He still loves you. And those of us here in this Guild are present as well. You are not alone, and you never will be.  

[Azkeel]

This place sounds more like a cult then a Church.

First off they are bending scriptures to please themselves and their image. I'm guessing divorce is their selling point that they focus on. Marriage is probably their main attraction. Because it sure as hell sounds like they care far more about marriage then they do about forgiveness.

And they say it's a sin to eat with sinners? What kind of pharisees are these people? They would probably try to kill the Messiah if he was here today. They don't know Him and I can say that easily. The Messiah took company with sinners.  

[Aquatic_blue]

Phantom Jutsu

This one is a harder and more touchy topic. My church also believes that women should not preach. It is not a matter of equality, merely a matter of God given roles. We were created that way. God mad Man first, He named the species for the man(and not woman), he gave Adam the right to name Eve which suggests authority, and Paul's letter describing the requirements for an elder clearly states that they must be a man. While Jesus was alive he spent time with several woman and it was clear that he cherished them, but the carefully selected twelve that later became church leaders were all men.
As a woman I know that can be hard to swallow, but I believe that it is the way we were designed. Woman was created for man, that is our role, it is God's plan and therefore it is perfect. This feels wrong and unfair but that is because of sin in men that chose to act superior instead of leading with care and humility as God intended, or it is sin in us. After all, when God cursed man for original sin he said to eve "your desire will be for your husband" which is the same phrase he spoke to Cain "sin is crouching at your door, it's desire is for you, but you must master it" So it shows that a part of the fall is that women will have a desire to rule men the way that sin has a desire to rule us all.
So while I whole heartedly believe that women contribute greatly to the church and that there are plenty of situations where a Christian man can learn from a Christian woman, I do not believe that it was God's plan to have woman preach in front of the congregation.

I went most of my life believing that because the church said that's how it was. Although, I later learned that God never said women can't preach. What Paul said about women isn't what God said, he was talking mostly about the culture, time, and I believe it was due to possible disruptions in the church. I believe the verse is misinterpreted.

But what about other women in the Bible? There was Deborah who was a judge and prophetess. She was a leader as well. She organized a whole army. One of the men in the army had been given the task to kill General Sisera. However, if Deborah did not go, he did not do it. Sisera was killed by a woman instead. I would say that shows women in authority.

There are plenty of stories about women in the bible that aren't talked about enough. Weren't there women who told the people that Jesus had risen? There was also that woman at the well that Jesus clearly shouldn't talk to since the woman was a Samaritan. However, he cared enough anyway.

What about Priscilla and Aquilla? For the time frame, naming a woman first was unusual in writing because it gives her the authority over the man.

In Joel 2:28-29, it says "your sons and daughters will prophesy". Prophesy can mean many things, this includes preaching.

Some Bible verses, when it says "men", it means everyone. Context and the time frame back then are important.

Not saying that women are better or anything like that. I'm just saying that both men and women are important in the church as well as in the body of Christ. We are seen as equals in his eyes:

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.  

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Azkeel

This place sounds more like a cult then a Church.

First off they are bending scriptures to please themselves and their image. I'm guessing divorce is their selling point that they focus on. Marriage is probably their main attraction. Because it sure as hell sounds like they care far more about marriage then they do about forgiveness.

And they say it's a sin to eat with sinners? What kind of pharisees are these people? They would probably try to kill the Messiah if he was here today. They don't know Him and I can say that easily. The Messiah took company with sinners.

I can definitely agree about the whole cult thing. It's messed up to me how they treat others and don't forgive themselves. They do remind me a lot of the Pharisees to be completely honest.

They have already shut out my uncle for being divorced and re-married and sure he may have made a mistake living with the woman for a while, but he does need God and the Bible and since my parents shut them out of their lives, I don't think it's a great thing. I remember going to eat with my aunts, uncles, and cousins, and my parents told my husband and I not to eat because the Bible says not to. I never liked it. I mean, I love my uncle, he's family and a silly guy. Sure, he may have made some mistakes, but that's what forgiveness it for. My parents simply won't forgive him. It hurts me inside and if they just looked at themselves and how much hatred it has caused them to build up inside. It doesn't make sense to me when they say they don't eat with "sinners" when EVERYONE is considered a sinner. We may not have all done the same things, but we have all sinned in life and we know it. It really doesn't make sense because what you said about Jesus eating with sinners. Jesus did that all the time! It's also an effective way to plant a seed in someone's heart and lead them towards God. So I don't understand their reasoning at all. It only hurts feelings, not solves problems. That church twists scripture too much and don't look into the actual meaning and read them as they want to read them and treat you like a fool because it should be "plain obvious".

They are a church that is too blind to see the truth, and their eyes too veiled for them to see what God has allowed us to see.

It worries me how they treat others and it took me 20 years to even know what all they believed. I don't want to go back, and if my parents nag about why I haven't been going, I'll tell my reasons and hope maybe they'll understand. I want to find a better church that doesn't treat people like that.  

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Rednal

*Heavysigh*

Okay, let's take this one step at a time. Ahem. (This may turn out long... Sorry!)

If a specific Church decides to kick you out, then it's true, you probably didn't really belong there to start with. That aside, while it's good to go to Church and be with other Christians, I also think it's important to remember your relationship with God, not people, and it sounds like you are trying hard to keep that sort of thing in mind. The idea that "you have to come here or you are unworthy" is, to be frank, kind of elitist. Me? I suspect our ages aren't so far apart, and I go to church once a month and sit out in the hall, yet I suspect there are few people at my church who doubt my beliefs after I was baptized there. My personal faith is more private than public, and as far as I'm concerned, that's my business. As your faith should be your business.

Now, your mother sounds like she's kind of being racist... or, if not that, I think she's concerned with her image. You said "a white man that's preferably Christian" for her views, and to me, that sounds like she thinks appearance is more important than personality or faith. That's what I call a warning sign that she may not have either of your best interests at the front of her mind, but perhaps her own instead. Kudos to you for following your heart and not your mother's for who you want to marry. And I realize it's not nice to talk negatively about someone else's parents, but you definitely should not allow such a person to dictate your life.

In terms of feeling judged and unwelcome, if that's really how you feel, consider this: Do you want to go to a Church that's exclusive to people who are "like them"? Or do you want to find a place that's more focused on God and is accepting of people for who they are? If there's really nobody at the church who wants to talk to you, you can either try approaching them to make friends, leave things the way they are, or just plain leave. There are many choices for all things, so don't assume you need to do one or another based on what others think.

The problem with kicking people out of a church for an action the church doesn't believe with is that it continues to form an exclusive mentality... while a church really ought to be inclusive. People frequently take things out of context; as noted elsewhere, "People are stupid. They will believe anything, either because they want it to be true or they fear that it is." In this case, what that means is "People will interpret the Bible in a way that supports beliefs they already have and use this to justify negativity, resentment, or even outright hatred of others", which means they're completely missing the point. Anybody who uses the Bible to "justify" being rude, mean, unfriendly, etc. is probably not someone you want to be too close to. I don't think your brother should have been grounded for supporting you; if your mother wants only the people she wants to have around at your wedding, for example, that's another warning flag that she's probably too controlling. I think you should continue to try to talk to your uncle and treat him like a human yourself. Invite him over to your home for dinner on occasion, perhaps. And if you haven't already, let your brother know how much you appreciate him, too. ~.^

As you say for your church's work on accepting criminals but not you... to me, that sounds like further evidence of a church that's being exclusive. Maybe they read the Bible too literally, but it seems like they're doing things because it's the "Christian" thing to do, or expected of them, or... you know... whatever. At the same time, it doesn't really sound like the church encouages questioning of doctrine or much of anything except sitting in the pews and being good little sheep.

Your next paragraph isn't so much a tip-off as the rest of the nals being hammered in. The wife tried to help and be good, but she wasn't even given much of a choice (it seems), and they're rejecting her because somebody else essentially drove her into it. Women should certainly be permitted authority. o.O This place seems actively hostile to females having a leadership role, and that... doesn't really bode well for much of anything.

For your parents, I don't think it's right that you should have to continue living in fear of their disapproval. They do not control your life. Nor should you ever need to eel as if they do. You need to talk to them and resolve this issue. Point out that you love them and that they matter to you, but also point out to them the things you think they've done wrong. And then forgive them for it. There is much power in forgiveness, not only when you get it, but even more when you receive it. If they should reject you, forgive them for that as well, and move on with your life. I don't think anyone who's read this far in your post doubts that you care for them, but sometimes, you have to move on. On the other hand, perhaps talking to them (REALLY talking) will make them realize how they've been acting. You can certainly pray for that!

Once more, beliefs change. Beliefs that are common now were unheard of in the past, and to be exclusive seems largely contrary to what the Bible suggests as a good course of action. You *SHOULD* visit your parents. You may be afraid of angering them, but should you suffer because of that? If they truly love you, they should understand and accept your thoughts, even if they may disapprove of them. If they reject you, then pray for them, but accept their feelings and go find happiness again. For your church? Nah, don't bother going. Sorry, but for a place like the one you've described, it simply isn't worth it. My suggestion is to look around your area for another church (of a different denomination), and talk to some of the senior pastors there. Ask them about their beliefs on issues, tell them of your experiences, and try to find a church that suits you better. A church is a place to grow closer to God. If it ever makes you uncomfortable and feeling unwelcome, that specific building is not where you belong.

Don't live your life afraid of others getting mad at you. Follow your heart, and ask God to help show you the way. And remember, while you may feel hurt and alone, God is still with you, and He still loves you. And those of us here in this Guild are present as well. You are not alone, and you never will be.

Thank you for all that =) makes me feel a lot better about things.

To respond to some of that, I have tried to get in touch with my uncle and invite him over to eat, but he seems to shrug it off. I haven't gotten responses back, but he know that my Dad has separated myself from him so maybe he's thinking about me and doesn't want to get me into trouble, and for my parents to shut me out, too. I'm sure he has thought of things that may be best for me. Although, I still think it'd be great to hang out with him sometime.

My Mom is rather controlling, yes. I always hated it, and ended up arguing quite often.

I love my parents still, and only wish they would see past that church, but knowing them, they probaly won't. It'd take a miracle for them to move on. Although, a discussion with them would probably be the best and to solve the issue and move on with my life.

I have my own personal faith, but I do agree that sometimes the feelings of others bend me a little and I don't want to say something to make them mad.

I figured at one point I'd just have to say what I believe and hope they accept, and even if they'd deny me, I'm sure I'd forgive them. I always keep praying for them and praying that perhaps the church by some miracle would turn around, or see their wrongs.

Honestly, I'm going out to eat dinner with my parents tonight so we'll see how it goes. Naturally they nag my husband and I for not showing up at church, and say that there are bad punishments after death for non-believers and stuff like that.

I can't live my life in fear and I know it. I guess I've always been concerned about upsetting those who are close to me, but I have gotten used to saying the right things that end up in friends leaving me as well so I should get used to it as a fact of life.

Once this situation blows over, I'm sure I'll feel a lot better inside because the stress of thinking about it won't be there.

I know I always have God there no matter what, which is always a comforting thought that no matter what, I'm never alone.

Thanks for the post. Even though it was long, I read through it and appreciated every word. Thank you =)