Any Warcraft Fans that like to roll dice?

[Brother Little Alex]

I am currently working on making a d20-esque based WarCraft table-top game that resembles the lore and mechanics of WarCraft (not just WoW, let's remember the series is over a decade old). I have a lot of it written up, but no one to really give input on whether something should be altered, removed, or anything like that.

If you're interested let me know. The game is namely based around D&D 4e rules, which I fell in love when I began playing that edition.  

[Emerald the Crow]

Don't Warcraft fans that roll dice just play 4.0? I mean, it's pretty much the whole point of fourth edition. A MMORPG in paper form.  

[Laelless]

Agreed. The only thing you'd need to do is change classes and races to be appropriate.
I would be interested, however.  

[Keith Valken Lionheart]

Emerald the Crow

Don't Warcraft fans that roll dice just play 4.0? I mean, it's pretty much the whole point of fourth edition. A MMORPG in paper form.

You're so wrong it's not even funny. That's an old, tired charade. Drop it.  

[Brother Little Alex]

I find people who call 4e an MMO on paper as just people who were overrun by the revamping of the D&D system. You can take ShadowRun and make it into Dark Heresy. You can take Mage: The Awakening and make it into d20 Modern. So, yes, you can take 4e and make it into WarCraft, but it lacks solid mechanics that have made WarCraft what it has been since before 2000. But in conclusion to the first reply, any errata can make any game into another in the PnP world.

And I have taken many of the classes and attempted to properly situate them into a true Azeroth/Nether-World system and it came out as pretty weak. For example, the Ranger/Beastmaster =/= Hunter. The only classes I had some success with on sticking with 4e to convert it into a WarCraft system were: Rogue, Paladin, and Fighter. Everything else lacked almost 99% the styles of WarCraft.

But if you're interested everything has been revamped. Races, Classes, Feats (now called Talents), and casting system have been altered to match WarCraft, drawing a lot from AD&D, Pathfinder, and 4e. And of course the entire line of WarCraft games. This biggest thing is creating a Power-Point system for every class (much like psionics), but keeping the numbers low and finding a way to provide point costs per move to be manageable (although I play on MapTools, so managing these things isn't even a footnote of thought). Also my sig-link is the HQ of the makes where a few others and I work on it.  

[Keith Valken Lionheart]

Brother Little Alex

I find people who call 4e an MMO on paper as just people who were overrun by the revamping of the D&D system. You can take ShadowRun and make it into Dark Heresy. You can take Mage: The Awakening and make it into d20 Modern. So, yes, you can take 4e and make it into WarCraft, but it lacks solid mechanics that have made WarCraft what it has been since before 2000. But in conclusion to the first reply, any errata can make any game into another in the PnP world.

And I have taken many of the classes and attempted to properly situate them into a true Azeroth/Nether-World system and it came out as pretty weak. For example, the Ranger/Beastmaster =/= Hunter. The only classes I had some success with on sticking with 4e to convert it into a WarCraft system were: Rogue, Paladin, and Fighter. Everything else lacked almost 99% the styles of WarCraft.

But if you're interested everything has been revamped. Races, Classes, Feats (now called Talents), and casting system have been altered to match WarCraft, drawing a lot from AD&D, Pathfinder, and 4e. And of course the entire line of WarCraft games. This biggest thing is creating a Power-Point system for every class (much like psionics), but keeping the numbers low and finding a way to provide point costs per move to be manageable (although I play on MapTools, so managing these things isn't even a footnote of thought). Also my sig-link is the HQ of the makes where a few others and I work on it.

Have you worked with the races in Warcraft? Especially the undead. I do admit I have a soft spot for Grom Hellscream and Orcs and Tauren in General, as well as Trolls. And Arthas. But only because he has a sexy voice.  

[Emerald the Crow]

Keith Valken Lionheart

Emerald the Crow

Don't Warcraft fans that roll dice just play 4.0? I mean, it's pretty much the whole point of fourth edition. A MMORPG in paper form.

You're so wrong it's not even funny. That's an old, tired charade. Drop it.

*Shrug* I've played demos of 4.0 at two World Wide D&D Days and Free RPG Day, and I've never gotten anything out of it that was comparable to my experiences with 3.0, 3.5, or Pathfinder. Might be that the DMs were poor, or the modules were poor, or something else entirely, but it feels much more like how a video game would play. Though I've never actually played a MMORPG, so maybe those are more fulfilling. I don't have the time enough to sit at my computer and play for hours to justify the costs involved.

Feel free to tell me exactly how I am wrong, though. I'd love to understand the differences better.  

[Brother Little Alex]

Keith Valken Lionheart

Brother Little Alex

I find people who call 4e an MMO on paper as just people who were overrun by the revamping of the D&D system. You can take ShadowRun and make it into Dark Heresy. You can take Mage: The Awakening and make it into d20 Modern. So, yes, you can take 4e and make it into WarCraft, but it lacks solid mechanics that have made WarCraft what it has been since before 2000. But in conclusion to the first reply, any errata can make any game into another in the PnP world.

And I have taken many of the classes and attempted to properly situate them into a true Azeroth/Nether-World system and it came out as pretty weak. For example, the Ranger/Beastmaster =/= Hunter. The only classes I had some success with on sticking with 4e to convert it into a WarCraft system were: Rogue, Paladin, and Fighter. Everything else lacked almost 99% the styles of WarCraft.

But if you're interested everything has been revamped. Races, Classes, Feats (now called Talents), and casting system have been altered to match WarCraft, drawing a lot from AD&D, Pathfinder, and 4e. And of course the entire line of WarCraft games. This biggest thing is creating a Power-Point system for every class (much like psionics), but keeping the numbers low and finding a way to provide point costs per move to be manageable (although I play on MapTools, so managing these things isn't even a footnote of thought). Also my sig-link is the HQ of the makes where a few others and I work on it.

Have you worked with the races in Warcraft? Especially the undead. I do admit I have a soft spot for Grom Hellscream and Orcs and Tauren in General, as well as Trolls. And Arthas. But only because he has a sexy voice.

Yes the Races are pretty much done. I have included over 15 races in the game. There are 8 base races (from WoW-Vanilla) and made all the playable races 'sub-races'.

So Dwarves range from: Ironforge, Earthen, and Wildhammers. And Trolls range from Amani Trolls to Darkspear Trolls. Each have different capabilities and features. (As well as every race can play any class, but a Tauren Rogue suffers from many penalties to even attempt hiding).

I am still waiting on feedback from 2 people before I actually feel satisfied on the designs of the races and to ensure everything makes sense. (Balance is a worry, but not even considered a priority, the priority is to emulate the lore of WarCraft).  

[Brother Little Alex]

Emerald the Crow

Might be that the DMs were poor, or the modules were poor, or something else entirely

I don't play MMO's, although I will be guilty of jumping onto Cataclysm for a month, the first MMO I have played since 2006. But anytime any table-top cannot meet your expectations, look to your GM or simply to your ability to comprehend things. A table-top has to try hard to be that broken as you have described.  

[Keith Valken Lionheart]

Emerald the Crow

Keith Valken Lionheart

Emerald the Crow

Don't Warcraft fans that roll dice just play 4.0? I mean, it's pretty much the whole point of fourth edition. A MMORPG in paper form.

You're so wrong it's not even funny. That's an old, tired charade. Drop it.

*Shrug* I've played demos of 4.0 at two World Wide D&D Days and Free RPG Day, and I've never gotten anything out of it that was comparable to my experiences with 3.0, 3.5, or Pathfinder. Might be that the DMs were poor, or the modules were poor, or something else entirely, but it feels much more like how a video game would play. Though I've never actually played a MMORPG, so maybe those are more fulfilling. I don't have the time enough to sit at my computer and play for hours to justify the costs involved.

Feel free to tell me exactly how I am wrong, though. I'd love to understand the differences better.

Because 0: It's not a massively multiplayer online game.

1: On an MMO, You basically click on an NPC, get a quest, and engage in a clickfest to kill monsters and get loot for crap. That doesn't really happen here.

2: Nothing in D&D 4th edition even remotely resembles the gameplay of an MMO.

D&D is STILL the same old dungeon crawl game of old, with classes, races and dragons. Nothing's changed, except the game is now more balanced, easier to run and play, and more accessible. You can't play Batman Wizards anymore, or Clerics outfighting Fighters, or useless Fighters and Monks.

I mean, please explain what EXACTLY makes 4th edition an MMO? The races? So they swapped some races around, big deal. I happen to really like Dragonborn. The classes? You still got the same archetypal D&D classes. The powers system? It makes fights more than FULLATTACKFULLATTACKFULLATTACKFLANKSNEAKATTACK, it gives you options and makes it more fun.

And from what I've heard of people who HAVE played in demos in cons, those demos mostly showcase the edition changes in the mechanics. If you're looking for a real 4th edition experience, join a game that's being run here that's also recruiting. Keep in mind, most cons and whatnot have tight time schedules they must follow, so you won't really see much out of those demos except rushed, half-assed attempts to run a game.

I've almost every edition of D&D, and I enjoy them all. All have flaws and good things, and I enjoy 4th's strengths, rather than it's weaknesses. Either way, I just completely derailed Brother Little Alex's thread, and for that, I offer my sincere apologies.  

[Brother Little Alex]

All good, derailing is the name of the game with message-boards.

But I agree. I was raised on 1st Edition, my first real Campiegn was AD&D, and I have played every edition since. I like them all, but 4e is such a well designed game that it doesn't stress out large groups where one or two players who are not really into RP can immerse themselves and learn to love that side, but still have an awesome combat-mechanic system to entertain anyone with brains and dice. I know in 3.x I couldn't recruit anybody to play Table Top who never had prior experience with the nerd life. But I've gotten several people who see D&D synonymous with losers, to love 4e.  

[glitterboypilot]

Doesn't Warcraft have it's own Rp? And I don't mean the roleplaying servers one ether. At least I believe my brother told me that.

Edit:Hay I was right....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warcraft_the_Roleplaying_Game  

[Brother Little Alex]

glitterboypilot

Doesn't Warcraft have it's own Rp? And I don't mean the roleplaying servers one ether. At least I believe my brother told me that.

Yep, they actually have 2. They're both old and were basically just D&D 3.0 and D&D 3.5 when they were produced. And that isn't what I want. Maybe if S&S took the time to keep it up it'd be better. But it was pretty much a market-flop. And it really was just a book of copy-pasta from D&D 3.x resources, which is what not this project is at all.  

[Brother Little Alex]

glitterboypilot

Doesn't Warcraft have it's own Rp? And I don't mean the roleplaying servers one ether. At least I believe my brother told me that.

Edit:Hay I was right....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warcraft_the_Roleplaying_Game

That is the name of the first one... Which was horrible.

The latest is known as: World of Warcraft: The RPG (Campiegn Setting), with very FEW resource books released.  

[glitterboypilot]

I kind of dropped out of WOW, because of the recent changes for Cata. But, If you need any kind of help, I have some experience in creating systems, Just don't ask me to do the Classes, I kind of bottom out there.