Sometimes things go too far.

[God-Raped-Me]

I would just like to say right now, I'm going to be hated for this, and I don't care. So if you're going to use the "You're a horrible person" don't bother because I don't care. I just want to see what everyone's opinions are.

Lin posted on Facebook that in the UK lesbians who have children can both be registered as parents. It's about time!

This is where I got thinking though. Is it possible yet for 2 women to have a child with their genes (both be biological parents) and if so, I don't agree with it! I'm pretty sure gays can't do this yet being male and all. Why don't I agree with it? For the same reason I don't agree with the idea of a man birthing a child. It's not natural. Humans have never been able to create offspring with the same sex and I believe that's how it should stay! They can adopt children together or have children with the other sex, but not with the same sex. It's great and nice and all that they can, I just don't agree with it. I believe that in doing this we're ******** around too much with genetics. I'm sorry but if you're a lesbian adopt, not like there isn't enough, or have a child with someone of the other sex who will let you raise the child.  

[Kaz Likes Cookies]

We are ******** around with genetics too much. The one that really scares me is the "pick your baby's gender, hair color, and eye color. have fun!" Talk about not natural! I have a lot of gay or bi friends and it's like, ok i'm cool with that, but its not right to add a child into the situation. It forces the child to have a much more complicated life including more bullying and it just makes for an easier target. Socially, you can't beat have 2 "regular" parents.  

[Chexley]

Nevada, here in the United States, either passed or has gotten through the state legislator (not sure), a document stating that gays and lesbians can now enter into a domestic partnership. They still can't get married, oh no~

The fact that they can now see each other in the hospital, share insurance, share this and that LEGALLY is a step in the right direction. I certainly don't see anything wrong with a child having two mothers or two fathers. They're just people who have different likes and dislikes, just like the rest of humanity.

Now, if you wish me to continue down the vein of genetics, why then, sure: it is a little strange for parents to pick and choose what they want their baby to look like. Stem cell research is a highly debated topic that many don't agree with. I can understand parents, not being able to have children, can't afford an adoption, and all the other "not able's" or "can'ts," having the option to do that.

The world changes all the time. There are bound to be discoveries and developments that people don't agree upon.  

[Kaz Likes Cookies]

Chexley

I can understand parents, not being able to have children, can't afford an adoption, and all the other "not able's" or "can'ts," having the option to do that.

how can they afford fertility treatments if they cannot afford adoption? Or did I read that wrong?  

[God-Raped-Me]

I don't like the fact that you can choose what your kid will look like either. It takes all the surprise and wonder out of it. Not only that I think if I knew what my kid/s was going to look like I wouldn't have been so awestruck by them.

Chex, I'm not saying that gays and lesbians can't have kids, I'm saying I don't like the idea of lesbians producing offspring together as a couple. It wasn't meant to be done... EVER! The fact that we can and are is just absurd to me. Like I said there are other ways of having children that will mean just as much to you.  

[wakusei]

I'd imagine if two chicks were able to form a child together without the help of sperm that that would be huge worldwide news.

They've tried, but no success.


Heh, Y the Last Man would have been much less interesting otherwise....  

[O h a y a r i]

Think about it though. A lot of places get bitchy about adopting unless youre a W.A.S.P (White Anglo Saxon Protestant). I mean there are some states where its totally illegal for gays to adopt, so then what? What if things lke this are your only choice?  

[invisible-weirdo]

I'm kind of confused now...I've yet to hear of a woman giving birth without the help of sperm. And if I'm not mistaken, the only man that has actually given birth was a post-op transexual.
And to clarify (because I'm still sort of confused), are you against lesbians having their own children (through in vitro using sperm from a sperm bank or whatever) or what?

And in response to when you said in the wild, two same sex animals cannot have children: If I'm not mistaken, there's actually an entire species of lizard that is all female and though they technically fertilize their own eggs, they have to simulate sex with each other in order to do that.

In regards to genetics, I'm personally for genetic engineering to a certain point. I think that it's a great idea especially for families that have a history of genetic disorders. But for parents to pick and choose what their baby looks like (and potentially to alter intelligence and things like that) is taking it a bit too far, but that's really just because I find it unethical.  

[PixiecuTT]

Cadhla

We are ******** around with genetics too much. The one that really scares me is the "pick your baby's gender, hair color, and eye color. have fun!" Talk about not natural! I have a lot of gay or bi friends and it's like, ok i'm cool with that, but its not right to add a child into the situation. It forces the child to have a much more complicated life including more bullying and it just makes for an easier target. Socially, you can't beat have 2 "regular" parents.

Oh, well then. Better not let two really tall people have kids. The kid might be the tallest in their class and get bullied. And better not let deaf couples have children, that might single them out, too. And fat people? What if their children are fat, they'll probably get teased at school. And man oh man, if you're the only visible minority in your community, don't even think about reproducing! talk2hand You're just setting your kid up for a lifetime of complications and torment! rolleyes

One of my best friends has two moms. The idiots who gave him hell were the same kind of people who'd have made fun of his teeth, or his hair, or his clothes. He turned out just fine, but I'm sure his parents would appreciate your criticism.

So yeah. Kids will be cruel, regardless of whether their parents are gay or straight. In this country, same-sex couples can get legally married. Basically what you've said is that because other people are intolerant bigots, loving couples shouldn't adopt kids. That sure is an a**-backwards way to deal with the issue of bigotry!

Getting back to the topic at hand, it's not possible for two women to like...blend their genetic material and have a baby. :s It's a non-issue. You need sperm, you can't just work with two ova. The idea of two women conceiving without the aid of sperm is, to me, less disturbing than using genetics to try and choose your child's looks and personality.  

[God-Raped-Me]

I'm not against same sex couples having kids at all, what I'm against is two women making their own child together, and if possible in the future two men.

Invis, can I have a link to that reptile, you have me curious now and I want to know more about them. Not only that I can't make a reasonable response with out knowing more about them. Although I have to reword what I said up there because I meant that it wasn't natural in the sense of it not being something we can do already... Don't worry I'll re-word it! In my statement my mind was being all "what if". I know that they are working on getting males to carry a baby to term without complications and I'm totally against that!

Sephy, don't you think that if their against anyone other than a W.A.S.P adopting they would REALLY let these women try and have a baby together?

Waku, I'm glad there has been no success, like I said my mind was in a "what if" state. I wanted a discussion on this. If I have as strong views on it I'm sure others will too.  

[Kaz Likes Cookies]

I think before we research how to get 2 females to be able to reproduce, we should work on the adoption process. I will admit it's a mess. There are so many kids out there that need homes and it angers me how easy they turn perfectly able parents to be away.  

[wakusei]

Cadhla

I think before we research how to get 2 females to be able to reproduce, we should work on the adoption process.

But one's more a social problem, and the other is more a science theory. Why not do both simultaneously?  

[invisible-weirdo]

Lizards
And more lizards
And I was wrong, they don't fertilize the eggs, but they still simulate sex with each other in order to lay the eggs. And there is no sperm involved, the eggs end up being exact copies of the mother.

And how exactly are they working on getting males to give birth? =S Wouldn't there need to be a womb of some sort?

And I understand what you're getting at now, though I can't say I feel quite as strongly about it as you do. I agree, it does seem quite unnatural and I think adoption is the better option, but I'm not like super ethically against the idea of it.  

[God-Raped-Me]

Interesting Invis. I find it interesting as well as sad that the offspring are clones of the mothers. Interesting that it actually happens, but sad because like they said, there will be no evolution other than mutations. I honestly don't believe they will last long as a species due to the cloning, but maybe I'm wrong.

I'm having troubles finding the site, but GTR showed me a couple sites where they stated that they were trying to get men to carry a fetus to term. You don't NEED a uterus to carry a child just an organ with enough blood flow, which is why embryos can attach themselves to the fallopian tubes. I heard that they can even attach to the intestines if given proper conditions.  

[Kalstolyn]

Yes, ectopic pregnancies are very dangerous, and that is the only kind of pregnancy a male could have. He would need extensive hormone therapy as well, and the infant could only be born by c-section.

Of course any offspring from asexual reproduction will be a clone of the parent. There was no other genetic input, it would be impossible for the offspring to NOT be a clone.

I have many many moral opinions on this matter, and well... I avoid the IDD for a reason.