|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:14 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:32 pm
 |
|
|
 |
This same thread (altered a bit from this one here, interestingly) was posted in the "Skeptics" guild too, but it looks like things are a little more active here - so I'm going to repeat myself:
Dramatica Angeliqua I apologize for seemingly at random posting a topic, as I am a stranger who doesn't belong in this guild.
Hello! I noticed that you ran about multiple freethinking guilds with your delicious proselytized copy pasta and can only assume you're looking for a legitimate response. I'd hope so, anyways, because otherwise you'd just be wasting our time and that's not very polite, now is it? surprised
It's unfortunate that these groups don't seem to be particularly active, but I'm more than happy to offer you a reply even though it's more than a bit delayed. I offer a bit of life here, perhaps.
Now, on to the response:
Okay, we've got Ronald Reagan and Howard Storm.
1st - these are people well educated in making their audience believe stories. That's sort of part of their jobs. It's why they're on entertainment talk shows in these videos.
2nd - they're also people that aren't really considered trustworthy figures. You can tell when they're exaggerating and playing up the crowd. I personally fail to find their stories compelling or believable.
3rd and the most important - they're both sharing personal experiences and that really isn't useful. There are no great revelations here for anyone except the individual with the experience. It's one of the least effective types of arguments you can offer and is called anecdotal evidence. If you don't know what this is or why it's a fallacy, please do look it up.
You're not offering much, if anything, to the nonbeliever in terms of the evidence we need to make such a radical change in the way we view our world. All you offer are a) threats of being in "trouble" and eternal judgement and b) insults of intelligence by claiming we must simply be ignorant and c) insults of our character / morality by claiming we have 'hearts of stone'.
This is not only rude and mighty presumptuous, but highly unhelpful (please look up "Pascal's Wager") and suggests you know an awful lot about this god and what he wants! Golly, his judgements sure seem pretty human - petty and shallow, you know? Odd, for such an almighty and all knowing being. Oh, well! I suppose it's just not in my place to judge such inconsistencies of character.
The problem is, before I can accept that god will judge me for my doubt even if I'm a very good person or that he doesn't want me to eat those tasty little cocktail shrimp, you're going to have to make a more convincing argument on a god of any kind existing in the first place. The details are very irrelevant right now and even quite meaningless if the idea of a higher power seems unlikely in the first place. This is the major foundation.
Then you can move on to discussing things like souls, life after death, other supernatural creatures, specific rules, reality of events, conducts and rituals, etc.
Your argument has only served to move me further back from accepting your position - the only thing you really could tell me, personally, about your religion is that I'm in trouble with your god because I don't believe in him, despite the fact I live a very moral life in search of truth, peace, and love. Yet awful people will get into heaven where I won't simply for belief? This does not sound like a god I'd want to worship, so even if you could convince me, I'd still fight against such a tyrant.
So if you have, real, firm, concrete reasoning for believing in not only a creator, an incredible supernatural power over us, plus the specific things this masculine deity requires of us and how he thinks, please share! You said you were once an atheist:
Quote: ...The more knowledgable you are on your opponents' beliefs, the better you will be able to debate with them. That was what I did...when I was still an Atheist. I was like you at one time. I didn't believe there was a God and thought all those Christians were poor, delusional people who didn't know the "truth". But now I know, and through my research and studying on the faith I came to realize how much sense it all made and that it wasn't blind faith at all. My research has converted me. As for you...please be careful which path you decide to take. All causes have effects.
I find it very interesting you removed this portion of your post in the other thread you made, it seemed quite relevant to your form of arguing - making a note that, through your research of the faith, you came to find out how much sense it made. I've done a lot of my own research on both sides of the fence and came to the opposite conclusion - clearly you found something that I missed! If you are posting this because you're concerned about our spiritual well being, please do share.
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reply
