My Atheism is evidence against the Christian God

[[Ren The Ryoko]]

Here's the hypothesis: There is an all powerful, all loving God who cares about me personally and wants me to love him back.

If this hypothesis is true we would expect that: this being would know me and understand my standards of evidence and then, because it wants me to love it back, would provide that standard of evidence to me. Given my personal standard of evidence, I would of course convert right then and there.

The fact that this has not happened means one of a few things:

- There is no God

- There is a God but God is not all knowing (God doesn't know my standards of evidence)

- There is a God, and he is all knowing but God is not all powerful (God can not provide my standards of evidence)

-There is a God, he is all knowing and all powerful, but God really doesn't care all that much. (He's indifferent about whether or not I believe)  

[Chains of Freedom]

My beliefs mostly center around a combination of the second of the second and fourth.  

[Balmvng]

Allow me to play the Devil's advocate?

First, what are your standards of evidence?
Second, what if God has shown you evidence, but you haven't been looking? I could also pull out the whole "You're blocking yourself from Him / You need to look for Him to find Him" card, again, for the sake of argument.

I only ask you these because I was asked the same things by my best friend a decade ago when I first came out, and am curious to hear your answers.  

[[Ren The Ryoko]]

Lord Balmung of Azure Sky

Allow me to play the Devil's advocate?

First, what are your standards of evidence?
Second, what if God has shown you evidence, but you haven't been looking? I could also pull out the whole "You're blocking yourself from Him / You need to look for Him to find Him" card, again, for the sake of argument.

I only ask you these because I was asked the same things by my best friend a decade ago when I first came out, and am curious to hear your answers.

My standards of evidence for such an extraordinary claim are demonstrable, repeatable demonstrations of existence and power that can only be explained by the existence of God.
How that would manifest itself, I don't know.  

[Maikaura]

[Ren The Ryoko]

Lord Balmung of Azure Sky

Allow me to play the Devil's advocate?

First, what are your standards of evidence?
Second, what if God has shown you evidence, but you haven't been looking? I could also pull out the whole "You're blocking yourself from Him / You need to look for Him to find Him" card, again, for the sake of argument.

I only ask you these because I was asked the same things by my best friend a decade ago when I first came out, and am curious to hear your answers.

My standards of evidence for such an extraordinary claim are demonstrable, repeatable demonstrations of existence and power that can only be explained by the existence of God.
How that would manifest itself, I don't know.

Then, of course, it'd never happen because scientists would find a way to explain it. Thus proving it to be a natural occurence rather than supernatural phenomena. gonk  

[[Ren The Ryoko]]

Maikaura

[Ren The Ryoko]

Lord Balmung of Azure Sky

Allow me to play the Devil's advocate?

First, what are your standards of evidence?
Second, what if God has shown you evidence, but you haven't been looking? I could also pull out the whole "You're blocking yourself from Him / You need to look for Him to find Him" card, again, for the sake of argument.

I only ask you these because I was asked the same things by my best friend a decade ago when I first came out, and am curious to hear your answers.

My standards of evidence for such an extraordinary claim are demonstrable, repeatable demonstrations of existence and power that can only be explained by the existence of God.
How that would manifest itself, I don't know.

Then, of course, it'd never happen because scientists would find a way to explain it. Thus proving it to be a natural occurence rather than supernatural phenomena. gonk

Not inherently. God could do something that flew in the face of physical laws again and again.
But yes, this level of evidence is nearly impossible. But it's a nearly impossible claim so...  

[Jungle Boots]

[Ren The Ryoko]

Maikaura

[Ren The Ryoko]

Lord Balmung of Azure Sky

Allow me to play the Devil's advocate?

First, what are your standards of evidence?
Second, what if God has shown you evidence, but you haven't been looking? I could also pull out the whole "You're blocking yourself from Him / You need to look for Him to find Him" card, again, for the sake of argument.

I only ask you these because I was asked the same things by my best friend a decade ago when I first came out, and am curious to hear your answers.

My standards of evidence for such an extraordinary claim are demonstrable, repeatable demonstrations of existence and power that can only be explained by the existence of God.
How that would manifest itself, I don't know.

Then, of course, it'd never happen because scientists would find a way to explain it. Thus proving it to be a natural occurence rather than supernatural phenomena. gonk

Not inherently. God could do something that flew in the face of physical laws again and again.
But yes, this level of evidence is nearly impossible. But it's a nearly impossible claim so...

or we could just call the discovery of those hypothetical miracles "theoretical physics" or it could just be a subject of relativity.

or we could just use the age old "we just dont know how to explain it yet... but science is getting closer to the answer."

i mean unless you expect god to part the clouds and reveal his face and words to us like the camelot scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. we will probably always have the ego and the process of sciences to effectively explain away his evidence unless the latterest situation is presented without question.

also... this is my rebuttal to your OP:

God is all knowing, all powerful and an all loving God who cares about you personally and wants you to love him back.


if this hypothesis is true; As a supreme all knowing, all powerful, and all loving God he is supreme over you (an innately finite and inferior being). Thus his expectations for you to love him back on his terms are supreme over your expectations for him to prove that he exists on your terms.

Because your need of proof may be falacious in the comparison of the love of an all knowing all loving all powerful God.

God knows your standards of evidence, God knows your standards of love, God knows your standards of ability, however your standards of love ability and evidence are inferior to the reality of his love and knoledge. He is capable of being all loving of you, remaining all knowing, and remaining all powerful reguardless that he does not lower his expectations inorder to suit yours which are fundamentally falacious.

Perhaps your inferior expectations will be corrected by the all knowing, all powerful and all loving God in a way that will reveal such an expectation and a definition of God is exactly present and provided for now, you are just not capable of realizing it yet.  

[VeganIncubus]

Jungle Boots

[Ren The Ryoko]

Maikaura

[Ren The Ryoko]

Lord Balmung of Azure Sky

Allow me to play the Devil's advocate?

First, what are your standards of evidence?
Second, what if God has shown you evidence, but you haven't been looking? I could also pull out the whole "You're blocking yourself from Him / You need to look for Him to find Him" card, again, for the sake of argument.

I only ask you these because I was asked the same things by my best friend a decade ago when I first came out, and am curious to hear your answers.

My standards of evidence for such an extraordinary claim are demonstrable, repeatable demonstrations of existence and power that can only be explained by the existence of God.
How that would manifest itself, I don't know.

Then, of course, it'd never happen because scientists would find a way to explain it. Thus proving it to be a natural occurence rather than supernatural phenomena. gonk

Not inherently. God could do something that flew in the face of physical laws again and again.
But yes, this level of evidence is nearly impossible. But it's a nearly impossible claim so...

or we could just call the discovery of those hypothetical miracles "theoretical physics" or it could just be a subject of relativity.

or we could just use the age old "we just dont know how to explain it yet... but science is getting closer to the answer."

i mean unless you expect god to part the clouds and reveal his face and words to us like the camelot scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. we will probably always have the ego and the process of sciences to effectively explain away his evidence unless the latterest situation is presented without question.

also... this is my rebuttal to your OP:

God is all knowing, all powerful and an all loving God who cares about you personally and wants you to love him back.


if this hypothesis is true; As a supreme all knowing, all powerful, and all loving God he is supreme over you (an innately finite and inferior being). Thus his expectations for you to love him back on his terms are supreme over your expectations for him to prove that he exists on your terms.

Because your need of proof may be falacious in the comparison of the love of an all knowing all loving all powerful God.

God knows your standards of evidence, God knows your standards of love, God knows your standards of ability, however your standards of love ability and evidence are inferior to the reality of his love and knoledge. He is capable of being all loving of you, remaining all knowing, and remaining all powerful reguardless that he does not lower his expectations inorder to suit yours which are fundamentally falacious.

Perhaps your inferior expectations will be corrected by the all knowing, all powerful and all loving God in a way that will reveal such an expectation and a definition of God is exactly present and provided for now, you are just not capable of realizing it yet.

Let's liven up this chat.

Valid points you've all raised here.However, how can anyone claim to know what god is and wants? Is he/she/it all powerful and all loving? Is she/he/it omniscient and omni-present? How can anyone know whether such a being is capable of love or wanting love? How can anyone prove that he/she/it cares? They cannot.

Does the world around us reflect the presence of such an ingenious and perfect deity? Our definition of perfection may be limited-- however, I see the world not as perfect but as very young and flawed. And some are convinced this being answers prayers. It is pleasant to think the universe was made for us-- but it is wishful-thinking. The universe will still be here when we are gone.

So, in my opinion, expecting anything at all is unrealistic. Nothing thus far, I believe, has been shown to prove the existence of such a being. And these are no inferior expectations, simply realistic. In the imagination of many, god will still be god, regardless of what we fling at the idea of god. And to me, it is simply an idea, an ideal of what we'd like the world to be.  

[Punching Boxers]

[Ren The Ryoko]

Here's the hypothesis: There is an all powerful, all loving God who cares about me personally and wants me to love him back.

If this hypothesis is true we would expect that: this being would know me and understand my standards of evidence and then, because it wants me to love it back, would provide that standard of evidence to me. Given my personal standard of evidence, I would of course convert right then and there.

The fact that this has not happened means one of a few things:

- There is no God

- There is a God but God is not all knowing (God doesn't know my standards of evidence)

- There is a God, and he is all knowing but God is not all powerful (God can not provide my standards of evidence)

-There is a God, he is all knowing and all powerful, but God really doesn't care all that much. (He's indifferent about whether or not I believe)

I know god dosent exist for one thing...think of the story of the boy who cried wolf. the boy lied about two times about the wolf coming and then the third time the worlf come but the villagers didint help. why? because the boy lied. thoses "preachers" is just like the boy but instead of the worlf coming, the wolf never comes at all.  

[slash harkiri]

TheGuyWhoReviewGames

[Ren The Ryoko]

Here's the hypothesis: There is an all powerful, all loving God who cares about me personally and wants me to love him back.

If this hypothesis is true we would expect that: this being would know me and understand my standards of evidence and then, because it wants me to love it back, would provide that standard of evidence to me. Given my personal standard of evidence, I would of course convert right then and there.

The fact that this has not happened means one of a few things:

- There is no God

- There is a God but God is not all knowing (God doesn't know my standards of evidence)

- There is a God, and he is all knowing but God is not all powerful (God can not provide my standards of evidence)

-There is a God, he is all knowing and all powerful, but God really doesn't care all that much. (He's indifferent about whether or not I believe)

I know god dosent exist for one thing...think of the story of the boy who cried wolf. the boy lied about two times about the wolf coming and then the third time the worlf come but the villagers didint help. why? because the boy lied. thoses "preachers" is just like the boy but instead of the worlf coming, the wolf never comes at all.

brilliant, purely brilliant point.

In answer to an older post, one thing which god could produce, which would be theoretically impossible, would be to provide a literally source less flame.

for instance, take the burning bush story, and remove the bush. having nothing to burn (literally, i mean no atoms, no oxygen, no nothing, like a fireball in the middle of a perfect vacuum), how could science possibly explain that? i know they might think of some form or way:
"maybe theres something TINIER than the sub-atomic particles that we cannot see?"
but for something like that to spontaneously burst into our galaxy would probably cause at least 60% of christians to praise the damned thing

course, i imagine some might shout out that its a demon or some bullshit.

of course, believing in science, i don't think this sort of thing will ever, EVER occur.