Stop Removing Gcash gift cards.

[rheostatic]

Nonconventional Existence

Pharaoh Misa

While this is one type of abuse that a lot of Gaians talk about, the abuse is more so from those who obtain GC through grants (candies on the front page, Runway) and funnel it into one account. It bloats GC with little tax to take it out (unlike gold grants with MP tax and what have you) and is probably one of the driving forces behind the tax. The other being to remove some of the excess GC that is floating around in the system.

[blinddivine]

Nonconventional Existence

Pharaoh Misa

Some have complained about users who buy tons of cards then sell them in the marketplace for triple the gold. That's how people abuse them.

by that logic the whole marketplace should be shutdown. that's all people do is sell unlisteds, rares, or the popular item of the week for triple the price. once in a while you might find something for a decent price, but it's few and far between. i still remember the turd who marked up skylar the awesome from about 14kp to 1t, to 500kp, all the way up to 1milP.

[Pandy]

🌸 I really do wish they would stop removing giftcards from cash shop. I personally like giving them out during the holidays to friends. Plus they are good for using with ticket collabs.

All this putting in then removing is a convenience and makes me wish Gaia Giftcards were sold in stores like CVS, 7Eleven etc again ... emo

[Rika]

I know they used to sell in real life stores ages ago, but maybe Gaia discontinued this. I also would if I had any active friends on Gaia gift them GCash gift cards and such.

OK, so, I do have active friends now that I've added more folks recently....but yeaah...

Anyway, I'd be fine with physical GCash cards returning, but maybe the stores purposely not stocking many. If not that, just go the e-giftcard route perhaps as mentioned in this post. I'd love to see an easier way to just buy GCash and gift it to a friend. If this does happen, perhaps allow us to select a time/date where it'd land in the friends PMs/inventory. This is in the case of Christmas coming up.

[Pleiadian Witch]

I actually didn't realize they removed the giftcards from the cash shop, or that we couldn't send pure GCash until just a few days ago as it was my first time I ever bought GCash.

I did it with the intention to use for art payments since I'm fairly Plat poor thinking it could help me out if I found someone who accepted GC payment. But apparently that's out of the question right now. :/

[Kikio-San]

Seek to be worth knowing...

I don't know why they don't just make the giftcards account bound to remove them as a factor in the MP to begin with. OR change the giftcards to something else that's not an item. Kind of like Amazon and many other companies do, where you can email somebody a digital redemption code for gaia cash. Then it's not an item at all, you don't have to pay companies to make physical giftcards in retail stores, and you just sell them through your site digitally. And the only thing that people can do is redeem the code.

They won't be able to completely stop people from trying to sell their redemption codes, but still... I'm sure if they did one, or both of these things, it would cut down on the 'abuse' of them. =/

But really, I don't know that the economy will ever recover because people inflate items left and right all the time.

...rather than be well known.

[Finnion Silvers]

I don't get how it's abuse to use an item as intended. The whole point of them being the ability to exchange Gaia cash with other users, via the cards.

There's no way the candies, ads, or runway were generating that much Gcash exploitation. I click on the candies on a mule every single time and in an entire year I haven't even hit the point where the lowest cash card- 500 - would be possible. If runway is that broken then stop offering gcash prizes.

The cards are the only way to have a user like me who can buy cash but whose time is at a premium to be able to convert my purchase into gaia gold. The entire draw of this site for me is playing with my avatar and thus the acquisition, I have full time work and don't have time to sit and 'grind' for gold. Not having the ability to purchase them at any time to have a quick turnover into gold so I can buy other mp items I actually want causes me to spend less of my already short time on Gaia and even less of my money. The only draw this site has is the avatar system and roadblocking people from acquiring items they want that aren't directly purchasable by further handicapping the way in which cash flows in the market makes it even more annoying. It's also a hindrance to people attempting to collab on tickets.

Unless they assign a set value to Gaia cash and offer me the ability to then purchase items in the mp for a more accurate value or give me the ability to purchase any item for a reasonable amount of cash, the cash cards are the only way to go. Or they offer the ability to directly trade cash to other users as payment.💙🦈

[Alpha Supernova]

Finnion Silvers

I don't get how it's abuse to use an item as intended. The whole point of them being the ability to exchange Gaia cash with other users, via the cards.

There's no way the candies, ads, or runway were generating that much Gcash exploitation. I click on the candies on a mule every single time and in an entire year I haven't even hit the point where the lowest cash card- 500 - would be possible. If runway is that broken then stop offering gcash prizes.

The cards are the only way to have a user like me who can buy cash but whose time is at a premium to be able to convert my purchase into gaia gold. The entire draw of this site for me is playing with my avatar and thus the acquisition, I have full time work and don't have time to sit and 'grind' for gold. Not having the ability to purchase them at any time to have a quick turnover into gold so I can buy other mp items I actually want causes me to spend less of my already short time on Gaia and even less of my money. The only draw this site has is the avatar system and roadblocking people from acquiring items they want that aren't directly purchasable by further handicapping the way in which cash flows in the market makes it even more annoying. It's also a hindrance to people attempting to collab on tickets.

Unless they assign a set value to Gaia cash and offer me the ability to then purchase items in the mp for a more accurate value or give me the ability to purchase any item for a reasonable amount of cash, the cash cards are the only way to go. Or they offer the ability to directly trade cash to other users as payment.💙🦈

You would be correct there if the 500 GC cards were the issue, but they weren’t. It was the real lowest amount card and why you don’t see it anymore. People were using their mules to grind the candies and turn that GC into a 200 GC card, then sending that card to their main accounts, which is a form of exploitation. As far as I know, you aren’t allowed to use mule accounts to help advance your main account.

Which goes into the other way people were exploiting. Runway. They would enter their mules and win, then send the winnings to their main accounts in the form of GC cards. So, taking away the GC prize would probably end that exploit. I’m not even sure why they thought it was a good idea to offer that kind of prize in the first place with all the bonus cash in the system already.

I think that is why the 200 GC cards were discontinued. To try and stop the first exploit from happening. Although even getting to that amount with the candies takes a long time so I’m not even sure it was causing as much exploitation as some claim it was. I think Runway was/is the worst cause of it.

[xEraserhead]

Nonconventional Existence

Pharaoh Misa

Some have complained about users who buy tons of cards then sell them in the marketplace for triple the gold. That's how people abuse them.

How is that abuse? People choose to pay inflated prices for things. If its overpriced, haggle or wait for someone to sell more reasonably prices

That said, if it's being sold on the MP, then money comes out for marketplace tax. Which helps by removing gold from he economy

So really, if people are buying and selling in MP its good.

For every 1T spent that's 5kp removed from the economy.

All I can say is maybe increase the tax or apply taxes to trades to stop people avoiding the MP with trades.

[Paperworm]

I agree.
I wanted to use them as prizes in my christmas thread,
and was so disappointed that I couldn't find them.

If you don't mind me asking,
in which way can those giftcards be abused?

[Alpha Supernova]

Paperworm

I agree.
I wanted to use them as prizes in my christmas thread,
and was so disappointed that I couldn't find them.

If you don't mind me asking,
in which way can those giftcards be abused?

Not at all. emotion_c8 It’s more like they are abusing the system to get the cards than abusing the cards themselves really.

The two biggest ways people exploited in order to get the cards were the candies on the bulletin board and Runway.

1.) Candies: People would farm the candies on their mule accounts and then buy a GC card, usually a 200 GC card, and then send the card to their main accounts. (This is actually against the TOS because you aren’t allowed to use your mule accounts to advance your main account).

2.) Runway: People would enter their mule accounts into Runway and if they won with them, they would turn the GC winnings into cards and send them to their main accounts. (Again, still against the TOS for the reason I said above).

Then another way mentioned above to abuse the cards is to purposely inflate them in the MP, but since people still buy them at the inflated prices, it is questionable if it really is abuse as suggested above. There are probably other ways they or the system are being abused to get them, but those are the biggest ways. emotion_c8

[Paperworm]

Dark Star Troia

Not at all. emotion_c8 It’s more like they are abusing the system to get the cards than abusing the cards themselves really.

The two biggest ways people exploited in order to get the cards were the candies on the bulletin board and Runway.

1.) Candies: People would farm the candies on their mule accounts and then buy a GC card, usually a 200 GC card, and then send the card to their main accounts. (This is actually against the TOS because you aren’t allowed to use your mule accounts to advance your main account).

2.) Runway: People would enter their mule accounts into Runway and if they won with them, they would turn the GC winnings into cards and send them to their main accounts. (Again, still against the TOS for the reason I said above).

Then another way mentioned above to abuse the cards is to purposely inflate them in the MP, but since people still buy them at the inflated prices, it is questionable if it really is abuse as suggested above. There are probably other ways they or the system are being abused to get them, but those are the biggest ways. emotion_c8

Thank you for this explanation. But I don't understand the problem here.-

If Person X is collecting cash on mule accounts to advance their main account, no one is being hurt. It is just Person X's matter. They still put in the effort to log in and collect it, so why would it not be allowed?
And even if they used that 200gc card somewhere else on the site - they still collected it in a legal method.
So why is it against the TOS in the first place?
(If some sort of Bots or auto-collect program was involved then I could see a cheating issue).

The runway issue can be dissolved by just changing the prize. No gc anymore.
But again. If Person X put in the effort to create a themed avi to enter that certain motto competition, then they earned the prize on their own.
I see that they would take away space for others entries if they really spammed 200 mule accounts in order to win, but only good outfits win (I assume) and Person X probably doesnt have the ressources to build 200 amazing outfits to make one of them win.

Therefore I wonder if those issues are overdramatized.
Sure, yes, it may be against the TOS, but as long as no bots are involved, and a person is putting in their real time and effort, no matter on how many accounts, it's not a grave matter in my view.

Again, thank you for answering me. It is a really interesting topic. heart

[Alpha Supernova]

Paperworm

Dark Star Troia

Not at all. emotion_c8 It’s more like they are abusing the system to get the cards than abusing the cards themselves really.

The two biggest ways people exploited in order to get the cards were the candies on the bulletin board and Runway.

1.) Candies: People would farm the candies on their mule accounts and then buy a GC card, usually a 200 GC card, and then send the card to their main accounts. (This is actually against the TOS because you aren’t allowed to use your mule accounts to advance your main account).

2.) Runway: People would enter their mule accounts into Runway and if they won with them, they would turn the GC winnings into cards and send them to their main accounts. (Again, still against the TOS for the reason I said above).

Then another way mentioned above to abuse the cards is to purposely inflate them in the MP, but since people still buy them at the inflated prices, it is questionable if it really is abuse as suggested above. There are probably other ways they or the system are being abused to get them, but those are the biggest ways. emotion_c8

Thank you for this explanation. But I don't understand the problem here.-

If Person X is collecting cash on mule accounts to advance their main account, no one is being hurt. It is just Person X's matter. They still put in the effort to log in and collect it, so why would it not be allowed?
And even if they used that 200gc card somewhere else on the site - they still collected it in a legal method.
So why is it against the TOS in the first place?
(If some sort of Bots or auto-collect program was involved then I could see a cheating issue).

The runway issue can be dissolved by just changing the prize. No gc anymore.
But again. If Person X put in the effort to create a themed avi to enter that certain motto competition, then they earned the prize on their own.
I see that they would take away space for others entries if they really spammed 200 mule accounts in order to win, but only good outfits win (I assume) and Person X probably doesnt have the ressources to build 200 amazing outfits to make one of them win.

Therefore I wonder if those issues are overdramatized.
Sure, yes, it may be against the TOS, but as long as no bots are involved, and a person is putting in their real time and effort, no matter on how many accounts, it's not a grave matter in my view.

Again, thank you for answering me. It is a really interesting topic. heart

You're welcome! emotion_c8

I think the problem lies in the decisions the admins made, not the candies themselves. I can't say Runway there because that is involved in one of the bad decisions the admins made.

The big problem here is those exploits added more GC to the system when there was already too much in it and not enough being used up. These exploits probably wouldn't have done so much damage to the GC economy had the admins stopped the bonus cash for both regular GC buyers and Angel subscribers like they said they would AND if they didn't offer GC as a reward for Runway.

As for the exploits themselves, you would be right in that they aren't that damaging on their own and shouldn't be a big deal since technically users aren't really doing anything wrong. They are using what the admins gave them to advance their main accounts so I'm not sure why it's against the TOS.

At the end of the day, to me, it sounds like it's only against the TOS to cover the admins' asses because they messed up and they know it. However, if anyone does know why it's against the TOS, feel free to correct me.

[Paperworm]

Dark Star Troia

Paperworm

Dark Star Troia

Not at all. emotion_c8 It’s more like they are abusing the system to get the cards than abusing the cards themselves really.

The two biggest ways people exploited in order to get the cards were the candies on the bulletin board and Runway.

1.) Candies: People would farm the candies on their mule accounts and then buy a GC card, usually a 200 GC card, and then send the card to their main accounts. (This is actually against the TOS because you aren’t allowed to use your mule accounts to advance your main account).

2.) Runway: People would enter their mule accounts into Runway and if they won with them, they would turn the GC winnings into cards and send them to their main accounts. (Again, still against the TOS for the reason I said above).

Then another way mentioned above to abuse the cards is to purposely inflate them in the MP, but since people still buy them at the inflated prices, it is questionable if it really is abuse as suggested above. There are probably other ways they or the system are being abused to get them, but those are the biggest ways. emotion_c8

Thank you for this explanation. But I don't understand the problem here.-

If Person X is collecting cash on mule accounts to advance their main account, no one is being hurt. It is just Person X's matter. They still put in the effort to log in and collect it, so why would it not be allowed?
And even if they used that 200gc card somewhere else on the site - they still collected it in a legal method.
So why is it against the TOS in the first place?
(If some sort of Bots or auto-collect program was involved then I could see a cheating issue).

The runway issue can be dissolved by just changing the prize. No gc anymore.
But again. If Person X put in the effort to create a themed avi to enter that certain motto competition, then they earned the prize on their own.
I see that they would take away space for others entries if they really spammed 200 mule accounts in order to win, but only good outfits win (I assume) and Person X probably doesnt have the ressources to build 200 amazing outfits to make one of them win.

Therefore I wonder if those issues are overdramatized.
Sure, yes, it may be against the TOS, but as long as no bots are involved, and a person is putting in their real time and effort, no matter on how many accounts, it's not a grave matter in my view.

Again, thank you for answering me. It is a really interesting topic. heart

You're welcome! emotion_c8

I think the problem lies in the decisions the admins made, not the candies themselves. I can't say Runway there because that is involved in one of the bad decisions the admins made.

The big problem here is those exploits added more GC to the system when there was already too much in it and not enough being used up. These exploits probably wouldn't have done so much damage to the GC economy had the admins stopped the bonus cash for both regular GC buyers and Angel subscribers like they said they would AND if they didn't offer GC as a reward for Runway.

As for the exploits themselves, you would be right in that they aren't that damaging on their own and shouldn't be a big deal since technically users aren't really doing anything wrong. They are using what the admins gave them to advance their main accounts so I'm not sure why it's against the TOS.

At the end of the day, to me, it sounds like it's only against the TOS to cover the admins' asses because they messed up and they know it. However, if anyone does know why it's against the TOS, feel free to correct me.

Okay, that I understand.
If someone is able to collect the cash on God knows how many accounts, that person would not feel the need to ever buy cash, therefore Gaia doesn't earn anything off that person. Therefore, Gaia is pushing many other GC related techniques to earn the money they need, which in long term can hurt the overall economy of this virtual world.
I wonder how it would be if only one account tied to the IP, was able to collect the daily cash rewards or prizes. But that would surely piss some people off. xd

[Alpha Supernova]

Paperworm

Dark Star Troia

Paperworm

Dark Star Troia

Not at all. emotion_c8 It’s more like they are abusing the system to get the cards than abusing the cards themselves really.

The two biggest ways people exploited in order to get the cards were the candies on the bulletin board and Runway.

1.) Candies: People would farm the candies on their mule accounts and then buy a GC card, usually a 200 GC card, and then send the card to their main accounts. (This is actually against the TOS because you aren’t allowed to use your mule accounts to advance your main account).

2.) Runway: People would enter their mule accounts into Runway and if they won with them, they would turn the GC winnings into cards and send them to their main accounts. (Again, still against the TOS for the reason I said above).

Then another way mentioned above to abuse the cards is to purposely inflate them in the MP, but since people still buy them at the inflated prices, it is questionable if it really is abuse as suggested above. There are probably other ways they or the system are being abused to get them, but those are the biggest ways. emotion_c8

Thank you for this explanation. But I don't understand the problem here.-

If Person X is collecting cash on mule accounts to advance their main account, no one is being hurt. It is just Person X's matter. They still put in the effort to log in and collect it, so why would it not be allowed?
And even if they used that 200gc card somewhere else on the site - they still collected it in a legal method.
So why is it against the TOS in the first place?
(If some sort of Bots or auto-collect program was involved then I could see a cheating issue).

The runway issue can be dissolved by just changing the prize. No gc anymore.
But again. If Person X put in the effort to create a themed avi to enter that certain motto competition, then they earned the prize on their own.
I see that they would take away space for others entries if they really spammed 200 mule accounts in order to win, but only good outfits win (I assume) and Person X probably doesnt have the ressources to build 200 amazing outfits to make one of them win.

Therefore I wonder if those issues are overdramatized.
Sure, yes, it may be against the TOS, but as long as no bots are involved, and a person is putting in their real time and effort, no matter on how many accounts, it's not a grave matter in my view.

Again, thank you for answering me. It is a really interesting topic. heart

You're welcome! emotion_c8

I think the problem lies in the decisions the admins made, not the candies themselves. I can't say Runway there because that is involved in one of the bad decisions the admins made.

The big problem here is those exploits added more GC to the system when there was already too much in it and not enough being used up. These exploits probably wouldn't have done so much damage to the GC economy had the admins stopped the bonus cash for both regular GC buyers and Angel subscribers like they said they would AND if they didn't offer GC as a reward for Runway.

As for the exploits themselves, you would be right in that they aren't that damaging on their own and shouldn't be a big deal since technically users aren't really doing anything wrong. They are using what the admins gave them to advance their main accounts so I'm not sure why it's against the TOS.

At the end of the day, to me, it sounds like it's only against the TOS to cover the admins' asses because they messed up and they know it. However, if anyone does know why it's against the TOS, feel free to correct me.

Okay, that I understand.
If someone is able to collect the cash on God knows how many accounts, that person would not feel the need to ever buy cash, therefore Gaia doesn't earn anything off that person. Therefore, Gaia is pushing many other GC related techniques to earn the money they need, which in long term can hurt the overall economy of this virtual world.
I wonder how it would be if only one account tied to the IP, was able to collect the daily cash rewards or prizes. But that would surely piss some people off. xd

Exactly!! That's why they say it's against the TOS, but in reality, it isn't because the admins provided the means to be able to do that.

The one way I could see that would fix all these issues is if they made the gift cards direct buy with real money instead of with GC. That way no one could use the above-mentioned methods to obtain a hoard of cash cards and they wouldn't lose out on money. (They still need to stop the bonus cash though).

If I remember correctly, they did attempt to do this, but yet again the admins ******** it up and did it in such a way that pissed people off. So, there was a huge backlash and they stopped doing it. I think it only lasted a day.

See, instead of being smart and publicly announcing their idea to hopefully ease people into it, they just secretly slid the direct buy page for the cards in there probably hoping it wouldn't be discovered until they had it up and working completely. Well, people discovered it and became enraged because to them it looked so scummy since no one knew it was coming.

That is why their new genius idea is to sneak the cards into the cash shop every so often for like a day with an added tax, but this still pisses people off because they announce it only once and they aren't in long enough. A lot of people aren't aware they are in there and miss out on getting them because, by the time they do find out, it's too late. This is why this thread was created.

I really think they should go back to the direct buy method, but this time actually talk to the community about it and make sure the cards can still be gifted. I think it'll go better that way.