[10/05/22] Should Monthly Collectibles be re-released?

Do you think the old school Monthly Collectibles should be re-released?

Yes	54.9%	[ 2438 ]
Yes, but not the envelopes	20.4%	[ 905 ]
No	14.5%	[ 646 ]
Indifferent	10.2%	[ 454 ]
Total Votes:			[ 4443 ]

[Nanzzy-chan]

”Tell me why am I still here when it’s all gone; I’m living with the ghost of yesterday
Tell me why am I still trying to hold on; I’ve got to tear it down to let it go”

acetrainer49

So...has there been any written proof from staff that MCs wouldn't ever be rereleased? Cause it sure seems like that is the crux of the issue.

Yeah so fun fact:
After doing a lot of digging (and I do mean a lot), I haven't been able to find any statement that they would never re-release, recolour or remake the old MCs - the closest I was able to find was people talking about how they mentioned at some point they wouldn't "mass" re-release them, a distinction which people in 2013 at least seemed to understand even amidst all the outrage over the initial A. Halo re-release (though I have a hard time finding any links to actual staff posts on that matter, so even that's all just based on what other people at the time had to say about it)...

... So has everyone just gaslit themselves into believing that Gaia made a hard promise when they never did? Did they confuse it with tier items which did have that clear distinction from the very beginning?

Regardless though, that just brings me back to my initial opinion on all this: do these people who are so vocally opposed to this, honestly believe that Gaia would devalue their precious donuts by just handing them out to everyone like candy, when there could be money to be made off of them? Because if it ain't a "mass" re-release, it should be in line with Gaia's original "promise" and therefore 100% fine, right? lol

ETA: After even more digging, and using the wayback machine to try and get a look at previous versions of the actual Collectibles page - they did at one point have something about them "never being sold again" on there, so I'll concede that point, it wasn't entirely imagined, but
They also removed that little clause from the page at some point in January or February of 2010, three whole years before Goldemort would take over the site, and changed it to the much vaguer "sold for one month/limited time only"

[MegaRose]

I've started thinking about this alleged exclusivity promise.  I frequent a lot of different browser game communities (mostly virtual pets) and I like to watch new sites as they develop and change.  And if I see a site that puts emphasis on its cash shop and plays up its product as exclusive, valuable, never-to-be-rereleased investments, I would take that as a red flag.  That sounds like a setup for a website that wants to foster a bad community.

I've been in sites with heavy exclusivity before.  Gaia's not the worst of it, definitely.  I once quit a petsite cold turkey because the staff had put up an official raffle for super expensive prizes...then allowed all the site admins (who can spawn any item they want ANYWAYS) to join the raffle.  Sites like that always have the most unpleasant communities.  Some of them aren't so bad if you avoid the forums.  Gaia Online is about 90% forum, so that's not a viable strategy here.

All the best sites I've been on have a rerelease strategy.  Some will randomly rerelease some thing as a surprise, which is chaotic but can be nice.  But the GOOD ones have a plan and let you know what it is.  If an item has been unreleased for a certain amount of years, it shows up at a higher price in a specific shop.  Or, some sites let you buy an untradeable version.  Many simply bring out the old stuff alongside new stuff during seasonal events, bumping up the price by a small increment every year.  Some sites, when they release a big new shiny, give an untradeable version to every active user in addition to the tradeable ones you can buy.  These strategies prevent the userbase from drawing its own faction lines, so that people can focus on enjoying the website itself.

So quite frankly, if staff had ever actually made a promise to keep donation items limited to their original month, that would have been a bad promise.  That's a promise to cultivate a lopsided economy, and canonize class signifiers.  That's a promise to build a community consisting of the same 15 people, passing around the same 15 pixel donuts, while discouraging new users from getting comfortable.  I would rather hear a promise to make a good website.

It takes a lot of integrity to break a promise if it's for the long-term good.  If that promise was EVER made to begin with...

[Rattlesnake Jake]

iDagger

It's like how I worked my butt off for a Nitemare Scarf back in the day, took a hiatus, came back during the pandemic to find them worth so cheap. Makes me feel all the hard work I did in the past was for nothing. To rerelease them even though they were supposed to be exclusive for that month is like printing money and handing it out. It lowers their value and as we learned in business, is bad for the economy.

I really don't get this sentiment. I've quested really hard for items in the past and took me ages, only for it to drop in fake currency value.

Didn't lessen the worth of the item to me. I mean, monetarily, sure, but some of the items have a very special place in my heart because of the journey taken to obtain them and no matter how expensive or cheap they are in platinum/gold, they are still worth a lot to me.

iDagger

Then where do you draw the line? What about rereleasing old sponsor items?

Contract obligations prevent purposeful releases of old sponsor items. Depends on the details of the contract though. If they can't be re-released for monetary value but like, put into free Gaia RIGs or DC, I don't see why they couldn't. There's some pretty spiffy items that are being held hostage for the sake of exclusivity instead of being available to those who genuinely want to dress up...on...an avatar forum dress up site.

iDagger

Golden Ticket items?

They have been re-released? It's in the FAQs that it can be re-released.

iDagger

Or even Platinum Ticket items? Sure Gaia "promised" they would be limited and never rereleased but, if they can do that to MCs/DIs, then what's to stop them from the rest?

Technically this is the only thing explicit in writing about promising to never ever re-release the item in question.

If you read the Frequently Mentioned Issues Sticky in the SF forum Gaia has the right to do whatever they want in regards to MCs or other limited edition items.

The same sticky also mentions the issues with taking from old/dead/banned accounts.


One of the first rr of MCs happened here and if you read the thread, more people were upset that it was more of a gold generator than anything else. The announcement for Divinity's Reach is a gold gen with a promise of a rare item. Not really much different than the usual RIG promises in announcements today, aside from the fact that we have by and largely moved away from gold-gens.

I'm not great at economics, but I'm pretty sure introducing MORE CURRENCY into circulation than some items is worse and more akin to printing your own money than rarely re-releasing rare items?

We had announcements like this in the past saying that the MC was available for the month. There's nothing explicitly stating that they are only available for that month forever and ever as well as promising to never re-releasing them ever again.


Even this archive of info on old Gaia doesn't have any directly stated promises that the item won't be re-released ever again.

I haven't been around since the beginning of the site, like some, but from what I've been able to see is that people extrapolated from the idea of MCs being "never released ever again" based on the fact that pretty much all the announcements said that the item in question was available for this month.

[A Grombie]

Yes, absolutely heart

I originally joined in 03, came back in 04, but wasn't able to donate until 05. I'd love to be able to donate again, for these items. Especially since it will keep the site going, and keep people paid.

I'm not a fan of RIGs, and would much rather know and get exactly what I'm paying for.

[Chaos]

Rattlesnake Jake

If they can't be re-released for monetary value but like, put into free Gaia RIGs or DC, I don't see why they couldn't. There's some pretty spiffy items that are being held hostage for the sake of exclusivity instead of being available to those who genuinely want to dress up...on...an avatar forum dress up site.

Original Gaian’s are part of the best generation:

Quote:

Gaia has 2,461,894,653 articles posted with 31,500,811 registered users.
Most users ever online was 532,396 on Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:40 pm

Gaiaonline is not just a “dress-up” site, it was THE Facebook, MySpace, and instagram of the time back then. What it has deteriorated to now, is an esoteric interests website. That’s why you don’t see “boomer” millennials, as you put it, hanging out, who possess net worths of over a million USD. The issues that this site have seen the past 7 years, range from: disorganized, unproductive, and ignorant staff - to members of the moderator/admin team creating tickets for themselves and friends. This site has seen it’s fair set of unusual issues.

Now, It’s quite simple to understand the mindset of the originals back then; when it comes to monthly collectibles. Original Gaia was from 2003 to 2012. That is 9 years. What proceeded that is this lower-scaled version of Gaia, with noob Staff not understanding integrity, and a management team unable to pay for a business purchase. Without innovation, all exclusive items will continue be beaten down. It’s simple, the art team cannot beat their predecessors, hence this thread.

The final most important thing, is our marketplace - the marketplace of today is completely destroyed and devastated to what it originally looked like. Every single monthly collectible and its sequential chronology, had a value descending, proportionate to its month. Currently, every single item in the marketplace is mixed in terms of valuations, that’s why you have guys like me, who’re willing to spend a few quadrillion to have 1000 duplicates of MCs - while others are willing to comply with the recolor ticket ideology of current Gaia.

The fact is, there is no truth only perspective.🌎

I believe recolours of MCs, satisfy the criteria of “dress-up”.👘🥋

2022 Gaia:

Quote:

Who is Online? - 2726 users. (1158 visible, 344 hidden, 1224 guests).

I rest my case. lol

[Charlotte de Colde]

Sure. That would be cool.

The original art was something to look forward to.

Charge more. Fine.

[Tina TomorrowTina Tomorrow]

I'm already seeing DI MC items re-released. Stuff that I bought far back when I sent physical money in the mail before I did PayPal. I don't feel bad about it these days. Those items are obsolete when it comes to  aesthetics. Just doesnt match. I'd be pissed if I only held on to them for the sake of pixel profit.  They were their worth back then not now. Whatever was had of then there are better  alternatives to those, save for a few. Glad to see re-release. 

[DjAngelicHentai]

i've been a user since 07. and as someone with most of them and paid insane amount for them, they should be rereleased.

[Lord Mephisto]

For people asking, where did Gaia promise never to rerelease donation items, or monthly collectibles. The answer is: in lots of places, but these were systematically removed from the site when they decided to rerelease them for money.

One example for you, from an archive of the monthly collectibles page:

"Monthly Collectibles are available for one month only...after that, they're never sold again! Because they're sold for a limited time, Collectibles are among the rarest and most valuable items on Gaia."

"These items can be purchased for one month only; after that, they will never be offered for sale again!"

link to archive of the monthly collectibles page

Another example of how the user journey used to be:

New Items announced in thread: Anouncement Thread
Links to page (around that time): MC info page

"Monthly Collectible items are rare, just like diamonds (after all, no matter how popular an item is, it is no longer available when the month ends)"

"Each month, Gaia offers an opportunity to buy brand new Collectible Items. These items can be purchased for one month only; after that, they will never be offered for sale again!"

The wording was also previously on the donation pages, from when we donated for items, rather than bought things.

Now, of course the ToC for this site have always said Gaia owns everything and can do whatever the ******** they want. However, selling things with these kind of statements and then reverting them, is shady as ******** in my opinion.

[Lord Mephisto]

Rattlesnake Jake

We had announcements like this in the past saying that the MC was available for the month. There's nothing explicitly stating that they are only available for that month forever and ever as well as promising to never re-releasing them ever again.

That announcement says : "Don’t forget that these items will only be available this month!" Perhaps we disagree over the definition of the word only...

Rattlesnake Jake

I haven't been around since the beginning of the site, like some, but from what I've been able to see is that people extrapolated from the idea of MCs being "never released ever again" based on the fact that pretty much all the announcements said that the item in question was available for this month.

So you weren't on the site at the time? Perhaps before stating such strong opinions you should listen to people who were. Statements about the non rerelease of DIs/MCs were commonplace. See my post above for an example. Websites are not permanent records, their pages and content are regularly updated.

When they started rereleasing and direct reselling, we posted links to the pages which said they wouldn't. Which was really helpful for the Gaia admins who went around rewriting those pages.

Remember we lost access to most of the early years of forum posts during database issues and migrations over the years too, but there were all sorts of posts from staff, admins, and, later, Gaia's in house "economist" that you would have found extremely illuminating.

[Muneca]

I agree with someone's post in releasing old MC's with a new item to choose from just so they don't lose all their value but it's the best of both worlds
People whove wanted older ones but are hard to obtain can choose to get that or a new item for those that already own them

To new beginnings

[Ceeshnia]

You know… the world moves on. I’ve been on gaia, mostly active, for 15 years now. In that time I’ve spent quite a pretty penny, including on mcs and first gen eis.
Rerelease them - let others enjoy being able to use these items.
Maybe don’t rerelease the gold donut in the same way, as that (although stupidly) can be sold for high amounts, but everything else should be freed.
The main people who are saying no, are vendors, and the majority of them don’t spend real money on this site. In fact, their AI of items drives people away.
The other main people who are say no, are ”but you promised!”, and I get it… but this is virtual. Like NFTs, the items are not physically yours and if gaia goes out of business, you’re going to lose those items anyway. Aka in the real world, they have no value.

Let people enjoy having items for their avatars; this world has already gone to hell, and rereleasing some pixels might help make it a smidgeon better for the majority.
(Don’t be like the electoral college; listen to the majority of the people.)

[MegaRose]

Chaos

Original Gaian’s are part of the best generation:

Quote:

Gaia has 2,461,894,653 articles posted with 31,500,811 registered users.
Most users ever online was 532,396 on Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:40 pm

You know most of those 'articles' (threads) are spam, right?  Not only is the most active subforum the spam containment forum, but bumping threads used to be so integral to Gaia (for shop threads and the like) that people used to charge for bumping services.  And you know a bunch of those registered users are mules, right?  Most people have at least two personal accounts, especially back in the day before gender potions.  And then there are shop mules, re-registrations from lost passwords/hacks/bans, trolls who use a bot to reregister every time they're banned...

Quote:

Gaiaonline is not just a “dress-up” site, it was THE Facebook, MySpace, and instagram of the time back then.

MySpace was the MySpace of 2003.  It didn't decline in use until 2010 or so, when Facebook took its place.  Gaia Online was never on a comparable level, and of course it wasn't, it's not the same kind of website.  This is apples and oranges, and also has nothing to do with anything.

Quote:

Now, It’s quite simple to understand the mindset of the originals back then; when it comes to monthly collectibles.

Why are you so fixated on this concept of 'original gaians?'  I thought you said you joined in 2008?  So you don't remember Gaia before the cash shop...or before towns, before fishing...you don't remember Gaia before zombies...

Quote:

Original Gaia was from 2003 to 2012. That is 9 years.

oh my god haha OKAY THEN

Quote:

Every single monthly collectible and its sequential chronology, had a value descending, proportionate to its month.

Also wrong, although I guess it would be a reasonable assumption from someone who wasn't there.  Donation items have always had uneven pricing because some just weren't as popular as others.  Hammi and Bammi hats are from April 04, but they were consistently cheaper than later items like the Steel-Plated Ninja Band (July 2004).  It shouldn't be hard to figure out why that one is still popular enough to have disproportionate value.

Or consider the Kiki Kitty.  That was March 2005.  The entire community collectively lost it, we were grabbing them up like we needed them to live.  Nothing like it had ever come out before, and the few months of donations before it were all getting stale (angelic this, demonic that).  The CoCo Kitty got the same reception, and even now is worth more than the KiKi despite being seven months later.  The items in between were mostly ignored.  In fact, people seemed to hate the Prism Butterfly Mantilla when it appeared in April 05.

These items were subject to the same whims of peoples' personal tastes as anything else.  Date did not determine value.

The Angelic Halo specifically kept a strong value not just because it was the first, and there were less of them, but because they were issued before donations items were established.  You can get more detail on the apperance of halos in Lanzer's journal.  Halo users weren't microtransaction whales, and they weren't terminally online vendors.  They were people who were around at the beginning, who were willing to help out a struggling message board with server costs just because they liked the board.

Quite frankly if you got your halo through ANY other means than a direct PM from Lanzer in 2003, your halo's not legitimate.  You weren't an original donator.  If we want to talk about Gaia keeping promises and honoring some kind of sacred bond between company and whale, the halos should've been account-bound.  But I'm sure nobody still here today would have wanted that, that would be ridiculous.  There's no reason we should be denied access to a simple trinket just because we weren't in the right place at the right time.  New users should have chances to get the same stuff.

And that seems reasonable to me.

[Chaos]

MegaRose

Quote:

Every single monthly collectible and its sequential chronology, had a value descending, proportionate to its month.

Also wrong, although I guess it would be a reasonable assumption from someone who wasn't there. 

B R A I N

There are a handful of respectable exchangers from 2004 to 2007 - and most of them have one common symbol of achievement - the angelic halo. For someone like Kanaxai who started late, it [was] unimaginable to many that he[d] be able to achieve the angelic halo in 3 years - yet he did in little over 2 years. The reason these exchangers are respected, because everyone knows they got that item not by donating $2.50 or inheritance, but because of hard work from exchanging, vending, hoarding and some LUCK (to find a legit halo seller requires a lot of luck).

When it comes to monthly collectibles, between 2008 to 2012 era, there is no more informed Expert than myself! The scaling was simple. I was a crew in the peak years of TVG. I retired right before Gaia decided to switch management teams and have them re-release all. Many of my fellow original Gaian’s have long since retired.

This cites the scaling:

https://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?t=14978789&_gaia_t_=1272&page=last

When you have a 3rd party usermade website to discuss famous Gaian drama before discord was made, named “Gaiadramatica” and you have mods, and Admin/Gaia Staff reading the threads - you know it was a different time. If you know you know. 🤔

In the end, the management team can make Gaia whatever they want it to be. Not my website, not my integrity! Monthly Collectibles were never intended to be re-released period.