Character flaws?

[princess-sylveon]

This is kind of a stupid question, but I just have to ask it. I've noticed people going around calling characters a mary-sue/gary-stu. When I actually read about these characters, they usually do have some flaws. For example, Bella from Twilight. (Please don't bash me, I know it's a bad example but it's the only thing I can think of off the top of my head) Bella's a klutz, which could be considered a character flaw. I see people saying that being clumsy isn't a character flaw, and that Bella is a mary-sue.
My question is, what could be considered a character flaw?

[fieri nova]

Linkage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character_flaw

I don't think her clumsiness is a character flaw, because it really doesn't do much at all to hinder her. And didn't she like, lose it after the first book anyways? It could be a flaw, sure, but it's not a very good one. People need actual personality flaws, not just; "Oh whoops, I fell, but my boyfriend caught me!"

[Desi the fuzzy fluffhead]

I don't see how Bella's a Mary-sue, I think a flaw is a flaw, honsetly whenever Twilight is considered it's wrong, I'm sure if you ask someone how the pages are numbered they'd say
" Wrong" or " The numbers are a total cliché"

I think the flaws have to at least have to affect the charcter in someway. 3nodding

[katie4242]

GUH! twilight this, twilight that! why the ******** can't we talk about some actual writing in this forum?

dude, twilight fans can b totally insane, i sugest you just not bring up any of the characters cause someone somewhere will totally bash you.

as far as character flaws go im careful to have at least one for each character, otherwise they don't seem very real. one of my characters is terrified of the dark, thunderstorms, and life from end to end, annother (stupidly)fears nothing but the guy whos afraid of everything, and one of my very favorites to write about is a total trekkie/harry potter obsessor.

the guy who's afraid of everything is ironically a vampire.

some writers can pull of perfection being a character flaw, but it's harder than it sounds.

anger issues is a great flaw for anyone... so's touchyness, and being a perfectionest.

[Darkphoenix811]

One rather small flaw doth not a complete character make. Real people aren't GOOD, they're just loveable/hateable, and most of all, original. So should characters be.

[RestlessRenegade]

The problem with flaws is that you can't just throw them in there to avoid allowing your character to be a Mary-Sue. (Which, no offense, is what the author of Twilight appeared to be doing to a T. I haven't read Twilight and I'm pretty sure I won't ever read it, so I can't say whether this "Bella" person is a Mary-Sue.)

You can't just say, "Oh, she's a little ditzy," and call her a good character. Mary-Sues DO have flaws...but not important ones. Not REALISTIC flaws. That's the rub. If you feel like your character is a Mary-Sue, then it's far better to scrap him/her completely than it is to just throw in some flaws, especially if they have little/nothing to do with the plot. Also remember that realistic characters have multiple flaws...but they don't need to be dwelled on.
I think that's really the problem with characters today--they're too influential. These are called stories because that's the point. Telling a story, not describing this character for six pages. The author spends too much time describing the character's appearance, personality, past.

If you say that your character Tim is a middle-aged banker, I can already get a picture of him in my mind. Unless there's something that you have to say that IS IMPORTANT TO THE STORY (such as he's got a limp which will later make it very difficult to run away from a rabid coyote...) then don't bother. I already understand who Tim is, and I don't need to know anymore, and what's more, if you do the character right then I won't even remember what color hair he has or what color his eyes are or how tan he is. Think back to the last published excellent book you read, and try and remember the character's physical attributes and the plotline; chances are, if the story was written well, you won't remember what color the MC's shirt was, or if you do, you won't remember as well as you do the plot, because that kind of thing should always take second place to the actual story's plot.

Then there's the actual nature of "flaws" themselves. What you consider a flaw, others may not. Some may find that flaw endearing or attractive. The fact that Tim has a limp doesn't necessarily register as a flaw to everyone--to some it's just a medical condition he has. Also, flaws come in a variety of extremity. That Bella is clutsy isn't a mega flaw, unless it REALLY has something to do with the plot. (And I don't mean that she was fated to be clutsy, or something stupid like that.) That Hamlet was too indecisive and therefore, by inaction, caused the death of several people he cared for was a major flaw, even though we may not consider indecisiveness that much of a flaw. Basically, it all comes down to a matter of perspective, and the way that flaw works (or doesn't) in the context of the story.

[Randiro Ellenath]

Writing is not like DnD, where you take flaws to compensate for positive attributes. Flaws should be just that: flaws. They shouldn't be endearing. Often flaws are things that could be positive, but they are employed on a daily basis so that it turns other people off or gets the character into trouble. Think about it; have you ever met anyone whom everyone instantly loved? People are flawed, but the flaws are built in with our strengths.

Maybe Bill is very smart, but he doesn't realize it so he looks down on everyone else as stupid or lazy. Maybe Jane hates Brand X and everyone who wears that brand because they exploit children in sweatshops. Maybe Bob is an expert moose hunter, so he carries a knife around. Maybe Janice is a very confident person, but she gets herself into trouble with her big mouth. Maybe Rodney is a great scientist and he knows it, so he often bites off more than he can chew. Maybe Felicia is passionate about world hunger, but she's not motivated enough to do anything about it. Maybe Fred loves to read, but he doesn't understand moderation, so he's fat and pasty. Maybe Amber has money and power, but it's made her arrogant.

See how they're intertwined? Flaws should grow out of the character's strengths or exist in opposition to them as a sort of balance. They should not just get tacked on after the fact. Consider about your characters' strengths to find their flaws. (Also remember that real people hold seemingly contradictory ideals and beliefs.)

At the risk of being flamed, Bella is a Mary-Sue because she doesn't have anything about her that turns other people off. So she's arrogant and clumsy and sometimes dumb. She never suffers consequences for these traits, and everyone loves her anyway. It's very important that a character suffers for his flaws in a realistic manner. If Bella is arrogant, then people shouldn't like her. If she's clumsy, she should always be swathed in movement-restricting bandages and casts. If she's acting dumb, other people should get hurt or killed trying to protect her. But that doesn't happen; she never really has any consequences for her actions. That's a huge part of why her "flaws" aren't realistic.

[PAnZuRiEL]

SheepDogX

Bella's a klutz

...but that's an endearing trait, and therefore not a flaw unless she ******** something up because of it, with serious repercussions.


But flaws shouldn't just be tacked on at random. They should arise naturally from character development, instead of being artificial additions.

[Kira has no value]

A flaw is a trait that disrupts the character's personality and provides room for weakness and conflict in the plot.



Bella's clumsiness is not a flaw. It helps the plot move in a positive direction, it attracts more love for the character and it in no way harms Bella herself.


It is an intentional imperfection.

[serenityelizabethblack]

Bella does have a flaw though.... Her almost magnetic pull for anything dangerous. It calls forth so many problems that do move the plot along, but they're also not a good thing. Or... I would consider that a flaw... maybe you all want to label it as 'Bad Luck'.

[ichi jyuu hyaku sen]

serenityelizabethblack

Bella does have a flaw though.... Her almost magnetic pull for anything dangerous. It calls forth so many problems that do move the plot along, but they're also not a good thing. Or... I would consider that a flaw... maybe you all want to label it as 'Bad Luck'.

But her ability to attract danger never actually causes her to be in danger. Big strong Edward is always there to protect her -- at least in the first book. I'll admit to not having read the rest.

Not only is the ability to attract danger unrealistic, it's a trait very commonly given to Mary-Sues, and because Edward is always around to save her, it's not a flaw. It's just an Edward-magnet.

[Tesa Tezemeda]

I think that Randiro Ellenath and HIEILUVER defined "character flaw" pretty well. It's not a flaw if the character doesn't suffer from it somehow. If it doesn't cause problems, it is not a flaw. If it's not important, it cannot be defined as a flaw.

Basically, flaw is something that causes problems or conflicts. If the character is overly confident and thus ends up in trouble all the time when he/she thinks nothing can go wrong, it could be a flaw, even though confidence in itself is not.

[Calixti v2]

Flaws should cause trouble for the character. Bella being a klutz isn't a flaw, because it causes no conflict; it endears people to her instead. What's more, it has the appearance of being tacked-on, instead of being a normal facet of Bella's personality. Real peoples' flaws (and good characters' flaws) come as a result of how they develop usually--for instance, someone who's pretty smart but never had any positive feedback might be insecure about their intelligence, causing conflict. On the other end of the spectrum, someone who's pretty smart and always had positive feedback may be arrogant and come to see themselves above "average" people. Or, if someone's clumsy and it's an actual FLAW, it'll sometimes annoy the people around them, not make them endearing, and they will occasionally hurt themselves (and that's one I can talk about from experience).

[MajKai Nis is a Ninja Jew]

i'd like to throw something out there and get folks' thoughts:




the "character flaw" is every bit as retarded a concept as the "mary sue."

[YunaZeal]

I place no stock in giving characters arbitrary flaws. In fact, I don’t even like the D&D Flaw system, which is what I see so many others apparently thinking of when they give their characters flaws; they give them an awesome quality and then feel like they have to balance that out with a flaw of some sort.

That’s not realistic. I say just create a character, stick them in a few situations using the concept that you’ve developed and write what comes to mind, and within a few sessions of this (or even just managing to turn it into something bigger) you’ll have a well-rounded character. No balancing feats and flaws needed. ^_^